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View Full Version : UNH Wildcats - Marty Scarano



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The Zlax45
02-06-2014, 02:29 PM
I think "palpable" was probably a slight exaggeration. I would suggest it was "palpable" throughout the UNH campus, and something a tad less only a few miles away in any direction. But you can't fault the guy for being a little overenthusiastic. :)



I must have missed that one. :eek: My guess is BS35 has the aforementioned *marketing study* hidden in his personal safe, right next to the *investigative file* for the Coach McCloskey dismissal. And his letters to the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus.

I would say that uptick is a big whooping 1 percent!

Greg Ambrose
02-06-2014, 02:42 PM
I think "palpable" was probably a slight exaggeration. I would suggest it was "palpable" throughout the UNH campus, and something a tad less only a few miles away in any direction. But you can't fault the guy for being a little overenthusiastic. :)



I must have missed that one. :eek: My guess is BS35 has the aforementioned *marketing study* hidden in his personal safe, right next to the *investigative file* for the Coach McCloskey dismissal. And his letters to the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus.

Chuck, you're going soft. I'll fault Huddleston for his description since it is one of his talking points as to why this project is worthwhile. As I've said, I am not a NH resident but I have several good friends in the Seacoast area, friends who live near Keene, and my wife is orginally from North Conway. I think I am safe in saying that the NH residents who live in the southwest corner of the state, those who live in the Lakes region, or up in the MWV were not part of the palapability study. They will read about this "investment" and, no doubt, will react the way they have to the University over the 40 years I have been observing UNH's perception around the state. As I said below, I am afraid Mr. Huddleston, like so many of his predecessors , is going to be a short termer. Spending money is anathema to New Hampshire voters in general, spending money on UNH even more so. You ignore the pooh bahs in Concord at your peril.I've often wondered if the attitude towards UNH would have been different if a 100 years ago the main campus was built somewhere in the middle of the state and not in Durham. Maybe not but it is worth pondering.

wildcatdc
02-06-2014, 04:08 PM
Chuck, you're going soft. I'll fault Huddleston for his description since it is one of his talking points as to why this project is worthwhile. As I've said, I am not a NH resident but I have several good friends in the Seacoast area, friends who live near Keene, and my wife is orginally from North Conway. I think I am safe in saying that the NH residents who live in the southwest corner of the state, those who live in the Lakes region, or up in the MWV were not part of the palapability study. They will read about this "investment" and, no doubt, will react the way they have to the University over the 40 years I have been observing UNH's perception around the state. As I said below, I am afraid Mr. Huddleston, like so many of his predecessors , is going to be a short termer. Spending money is anathema to New Hampshire voters in general, spending money on UNH even more so. You ignore the pooh bahs in Concord at your peril.I've often wondered if the attitude towards UNH would have been different if a 100 years ago the main campus was built somewhere in the middle of the state and not in Durham. Maybe not but it is worth pondering.

Well, Concord (and about a zillion other naysayers, including the bastion of logical thought, the New Hampshire), were roundly ignored during the PTP process. The result? Even before the school was delivered, the applicant pool grew materially in both volume and quality. Had they listened to the apparently brilliant minds of Concord (oh, and the profs union and the NH, etc.,), it wouldn't have happened and the B-School would still have 30% less capacity in an overstuffed building with leaking ceilings.

Oh, and the new Comm's school, whose construction was a serendipitous outgrowth of PTP's benevolence, might not have happened.

As a taxpayer in NH from1983-1990, and now again since 2000 (hope Dover is making the most of my property tax - haven't set foot there since 2011, and am in NH all of about 10 days a year) and and alum, I'm couldn't be happier with the concept. As are my mother, relatives and friends in Peterborough, Milford, Nashua, Dover, Keene and Burlington - one of whom went to the U (well my sister also went, but got suspended her first semester for having a six-pack in her room and never went back).

The important part is the execution - can the funds be raised (I'm on board), and can they deliver the ROI? Those are fair questions, and I am equally concerned about the outcomes. But this isn't Gordon Haaland or Dale Freaking Nietschke at the helm.

To take shots at a person (ominous warnings of Presidents past - BTW, Huddleston has served longer than anyone but McConnell since WWII, in a MUCH less favorable environment) who has the best interests of the U at heart just doesn't make sense to me.

Greg - I really respect your posts... Just don't understand the snarkiness around Cowell/Huddleston. In concept, it would be awfully nice to add another cornerstone to the campus... IF (and I grant you it's a BIG if) we can execute. I hope we hear more details on the business case.

e.cat
02-06-2014, 04:12 PM
Couldn't agree more. As a person who overtly (and often obnoxiously) carries the unique flag of NH/NE wherever life takes me, I'd hate to lose that sense. At the same time, establishing ourselves as a "destination state school", for specific reasons (CEPS, Whitt, PTP, Comm's, Cowell, Libby's, etc.) would be a pretty cool outcome.

Absolutely agree with you about the "destination school" part DC. That would be pretty cool:)

e.cat
02-06-2014, 04:20 PM
DC. Greg is worried that the football team will win an NC before the hockey team does;)

wildcatdc
02-06-2014, 04:48 PM
DC. Greg is worried that the football team will win an NC before the hockey team does;)

1. I want to laugh but I respect Greg too much and I don't want to risk p-ing him off too much! :-)

2. Until the HayHuckers of NDSU go to 1-A - unlikely, because they'd have to double the size of the Thurnderdome, I think the best we can hope for is runner-up. (yes, I just admitted my perspective on the limitations of the Cowell upgrade's ROI!!)

Greg Ambrose
02-06-2014, 05:07 PM
Greg - I really respect your posts... Just don't understand the snarkiness around Cowell/Huddleston. In concept, it would be awfully nice to add another cornerstone to the campus... IF (and I grant you it's a BIG if) we can execute. I hope we hear more details on the business case.

I guess we just have to agree to disagree. I'm not a big fan of spending money on non-education facilities unless there is some positive financial result. For instance, UMass playing football at Foxboro. As a Mass. taxpayer I think it is a huge waste of money and that the whole 1A football route, especially in the MAC, is pure folly. I'm not saying UNH is doing the same but, honestly, what is the expected outcome for this investment. That's the bottom line to me. I'd love to know the answer.

wildcatdc
02-06-2014, 06:03 PM
I guess we just have to agree to disagree. I'm not a big fan of spending money on non-education facilities unless there is some positive financial result. For instance, UMass playing football at Foxboro. As a Mass. taxpayer I think it is a huge waste of money and that the whole 1A football route, especially in the MAC, is pure folly. I'm not saying UNH is doing the same but, honestly, what is the expected outcome for this investment. That's the bottom line to me. I'd love to know the answer.

There is zero intent to go 1-A, and yep, we will stay on opposite sides of the fence (and border!) on this one. :-)

UNH_Alum_In_CT
02-06-2014, 06:37 PM
I guess we just have to agree to disagree. I'm not a big fan of spending money on non-education facilities unless there is some positive financial result. For instance, UMass playing football at Foxboro. As a Mass. taxpayer I think it is a huge waste of money and that the whole 1A football route, especially in the MAC, is pure folly. I'm not saying UNH is doing the same but, honestly, what is the expected outcome for this investment. That's the bottom line to me. I'd love to know the answer.

Some expected outcomes I foresee from adding the new grandstand at Cowell are:

1. Increase attendance. Current capacity is 6,500 and average attendance the past few years has been around 8,000. More would attend if they had a place to sit as Homecoming and big games like this year with Maine have demonstrated. This year over 18,400 had tickets for Homecoming (it wasn't a misprint!) and the team was 1-3 and the weather wasn't great. Homecoming the past five years or so has been 10-15K with lord knows how many more out in Boulder Field tailgating. The football culture has grown exponentially in the last decade and returning alumni on Homecoming is a example. More seats means more revenue. While UNH Football will never make the over one million dollar profit that Delaware normally does, added revenue helps bring revenue closer to expenses.

2. With the new grandstand and its modern connectivity, UNH significantly increases their chances of winning bids to host playoff games. Only one team has won a national championship playing all road games, JMU in 2004, and the three road games were all bus games for them. In the past ten years, UNH has been sent to GA, VA, SC, FL, PA, DE, ME, MA, LA (twice), IA (twice), IL, Montana (twice) while hosting only three games. Also, with now being able to put TV cameras on the new grandstand, the picture quality improves greatly with the sun behind the cameras, which will also help UNH host playoff games.

3. The renovated East and new West Grandstands will significantly reduce the negative recruiting factor of the Dungeon. I've attended UNH Football games at 38 venues in 21 states and outside a couple of places back in the 70's, Cowell Stadium is the absolute worst. Even Meade Stadium at URI is close to the sideline (no track) for great sight lines and the other side has a new grandstand tied into the Ryan Center for concessions, bathrooms and locker rooms. The real shame with the stadium enhancement project is that it was pared down and doesn't include new locker rooms. From what I've been told, the visitor's locker room at Cowell is embarrassing beyond belief. Being built back in the 30's, I can only imagine how bad it is.

4. The more people involved with the Football program with greater and improved facilities then the more money that is donated to the university and the Cat Club. I can't quote numbers but I believe there has been a very substantial increase in both donation types. I know I donate significantly more since I really got involved back in 2002 and 2003. And I can't be the only one, but I attend more hockey games since becoming a season ticket holder in football. ;) Four of us went to the St Cloud game Friday night during Homecoming 2012.



As for your idea of a schedule with a more compact footprint, let me bring you up to date. UConn and UMass have gone FBS, Northeastern and Hofstra have dropped football, Albany and Stony Brook have joined the CAA and now play full scholarship FCS Football, the other D-I programs in New England are BC (ACC), Holy Cross (Patriot), the four Ivies (Harvard, Brown, Yale and Dartmouth (who after the current contract ends with the next two games will probably not play UNH again because they don't feel they can compete, the other three haven't scheduled UNH since WWII)) and the NEC (40 scholarship max) schools (Bryant, Central CT, Sacred Heart). There isn't another league with a compact footprint. Even if we had joined the Patriot, we'd have had long bus rides to Colgate, Lehigh, Bucknell and Lafayette for ALL sports now in America East. The CAA includes the other medium sized public institutions in the Mid-Atlantic and New England that play D-I FCS football (W&M, JMU, Towson, Delaware, Stony Brook, Albany, URI and Maine) along with Elon, Richmond and Villanova. UNH has been in the same league with Delaware and Richmond since 1986. Villanova, JMU and W&M joined during the 90's and with some it's approaching 20 years of competition now. URI and Maine go back to the old Yankee Conference and Stony Brook and Albany now have all the AE Football schools in the same conference. The CAA Football Conference is where UNH belongs and the footprint actually helps UNH recruit and play at the highest level. There is no other choice and playing as an independent would be scheduling suicide.

Whether you like it or not, Football is the most popular sport in the US and UNH is playing it at the highest level possible. It has provided significant positive national exposure to UNH with the wins over Rutgers and Northwestern, Ricky Santos winning the Walter Payton Award, David Ball breaking Jerry Rice's collegiate receiving records, Jerry Azumah making the Pro Bowl, ten consecutive years in the NCAA Playoffs and their semi-final berth this year. I've read a quote that football garners more interest from UNH Alumni than even ice hockey. Regardless, it involves a significant number of people and has a direct impact on donations to the university. Football deserves the new facility.

Czarry
02-06-2014, 07:02 PM
8000 in ave. attendance for 5 home games a year....sure, let's spend 25 million...and still have a lousy facility...
How about we see all those football lovers come to the table with $$$$ and then make their pitch...
You talk about sight lines and being close to the field.... Well perhaps Marty should have realized that before he spent all that money on our new track (which was much needed) with money raised that he had nothing to do with.... Now we have a stadium with a new track and no possible renovation.. When I attend football games I'm so far from the field I may as well be in Dover.... Instead of putting a new saddle on an old horse... Maybe we should get rid of the horse.... Never happen.... No one over there has ever had the courage to even mention it....

wildcatdc
02-06-2014, 07:03 PM
CT - great post. Was your inclusion of Delaware a sly reference to the Prez, who spent 24 years there? (1980-2004)

Now that is a pretty cool stadium, and a bit hostile to visitors... Felt like a mini-version of an SEC environment for an opposing team. Last visit for me was 2007. Flacco v Santos. Almost 1000 yards of offense. 43 points in 4th quarter. Cats 52-49. I'd kill to go "home" to an atmosphere like that.

e.cat
02-06-2014, 08:52 PM
What CT said. Great post:)

Agree UNH football deserves the upgrade. How any UNH alum could be against this is beyond the pale IMO. Hockey got the Whitt and *** have they won? Two Hockey East titles. BFD.

Dont get me wrong I love UNH hockey but for bollocks sake get a freaking clue. This would be great for UNH.

Czarry
02-06-2014, 09:51 PM
Ecat...time for you to get a freakin clue....without the hockey revenue the football program would have been put to bed a long time ago.... Sure, it would be great for UNH, if we could afford it...but we can't... This is a pipe dream that will fail miserably...and take it's toll on the hockey program ... The one revenue producer we have...

The Zlax45
02-06-2014, 11:36 PM
I guess we just have to agree to disagree. I'm not a big fan of spending money on non-education facilities unless there is some positive financial result. For instance, UMass playing football at Foxboro. As a Mass. taxpayer I think it is a huge waste of money and that the whole 1A football route, especially in the MAC, is pure folly. I'm not saying UNH is doing the same but, honestly, what is the expected outcome for this investment. That's the bottom line to me. I'd love to know the answer.

UMass is only playing at Foxboro because they needed to do major upgrades at the on-campus stadium where they will return for a few games next season and gradually will play more games in Amherst before ditching Gillette.

The Zlax45
02-06-2014, 11:43 PM
Some expected outcomes I foresee from adding the new grandstand at Cowell are:

3. The renovated East and new West Grandstands will significantly reduce the negative recruiting factor of the Dungeon. I've attended UNH Football games at 38 venues in 21 states and outside a couple of places back in the 70's, Cowell Stadium is the absolute worst. Even Meade Stadium at URI is close to the sideline (no track) for great sight lines and the other side has a new grandstand tied into the Ryan Center for concessions, bathrooms and locker rooms. The real shame with the stadium enhancement project is that it was pared down and doesn't include new locker rooms. From what I've been told, the visitor's locker room at Cowell is embarrassing beyond belief. Being built back in the 30's, I can only imagine how bad it is.


I have been in that opponent locker room...It is just a big room with zero stalls and maybe 5 lockers for coaches lockers.

Why not build a new field house with new locker rooms if you are going to spend that amount of money? The field house is terribly out of date.

Ryan422
02-07-2014, 12:38 AM
I'm not a big fan of spending money on non-education facilities unless there is some positive financial result.

I'm trying to stay neutral/keep an open mind on this matter... I'd love to see a stadium built and I think it's way over due, but I need to hear more about this "business plan" they have. I think when they say it will create a "big economic impact" on downtown Durham that is kinda a joke. I don't think it will cause a huge increase for Business downtown. I don't think that many more people will start going to the games either. Maybe for the first couple years just to check out the new facilities but then it will prob. go back to what it has been lately(total assumption, could totally be wrong on that though). I'd also like to see more of the 25 mil needed raised through fundraising. If that many people are on board/ corporate sponsors I think it's very doable to get a good chunk of the money.

Now... I can certainly understand a persons opinion not to spend a lot of money on athletics. But by your thinking all UNH sports besides hockey would never (or hardly ever) get upgrades in facilities because they don't make money for the school. Now at some point a school does need to open their wallets and spend money on facilities. Whether it is on academic buildings, dining halls, dorms or athletic facilities. It needs to happen at some point. They need to keep evolving and develop the campus so they can stay on par/compete with other schools for students & good athletes with a good looking campus. The campus just can't stay stuck in the past, at some point they need upgrades. Now at what point do you let some air into the wallet and make long overdue upgrades? Someone brought up the field house. That's an old, out of date building. For all of those who are opposed to the new West Stadium or don't want to fund non-ed facilities, at what point do you upgrade or replace the field house then? When it's 100? 200? or 300 years old?(I think that's why the BBall team is so bad. ;) HA) Same goes for the football stadium. At what point do you upgrade it? Because it's long overdue. Lots of people say just get rid of the football program because they drain money. I can understand that but I just don't think that's going to happen b/c if they keep making NCAA's the school likes the national attention as well as a host other reasons whether you agree or not. And if it's going to stay for the long haul then they certainly need/ deserve some upgrades. As long as it's done properly (lots of fundraising, no increase in tuition, ect.) I can get on board.

The Zlax45
02-07-2014, 12:52 AM
The basketball team doesn't even have a locker room to go to at halftime! They end up in a conference room for the athletic department

FRICKER
02-07-2014, 01:24 AM
From the outside (Michigan) looking in, UNH should use the "McCloskey debacle" to "jettison" Scarano and bring in a "real" AD, eh?

e.cat
02-07-2014, 06:46 AM
Czarry, no disrespect but how do you know if hockey is profitable or not? Ive heard that before from maybe Greg. Are the books open to the public? Maybe they are and if so put it out there. How much of a profit are we talking about? What are the costs? Are the costs just operating costs or do they include the costs to fund tuition and room and board for the players. I dont know any of this. If you do then back it up. And since when is a public university held out to be a for profit organization?

Czarry
02-07-2014, 07:32 AM
ECat...I think it is widely known, and generally understood, that revenue from the hockey program supports a large percentage of the athletic department budget...It is the ONLY revenue producer at UNH....I'm sure their budget is available to the public and accessible for your scrutiny...If you want to dig the numbers out and make them available to everyone on this board, be my guest.....I have my own job and no time to do that...
Your statement of "I don't know any of this" says it all and is a telling commentary on your posts........And who ever said a public university should be held out to be a "for profit" organization? This football proposal comes down to making difficult choices....courageous choices....I question Marty Scarano's ability to make these choices....he certainly hasn't exemplified much courage, in any respect, during his tenure...