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MeridianStreet
02-16-2014, 02:21 PM
So exactly when as a coach do you say to your team, "I give up?" Murdock was a big factor in the LSSU win on Friday and got hung out by his teammates on Saturday. As a coach, do you risk turning a 5-1 game into 7-1 or 8-1?

As far as Ciotti goes, he played pretty well both nights. I'm not sure I understand the desire to bench a kid who has double digit points playing 4th line. His numbers are quite comparable to a lot of other players in that position in the league. His line was the only one NMU didn't score on last night.

Davyd...................stop using logic or you will be banned from this thread:)

sm2pk
02-16-2014, 02:45 PM
When Saturday nights are killing you,you make changes and a 891 save per-centage and over 3.8 goals against is not taking a chance changing goalies when the game is all but over. As for benching players . Yea..that is what you do and Roque has proven that with leaving Ravn out of games when the game has been over with long before the clock ran out.

davyd83
02-16-2014, 02:51 PM
Davyd...................stop using logic or you will be banned from this thread:)

Year 10 will be the best one yet???

RapidsCity
02-16-2014, 02:55 PM
When Saturday nights are killing you,you make changes and a 891 save per-centage and over 3.8 goals against is not taking a chance changing goalies when the game is all but over. As for benching players . Yea..that is what you do and Roque has proven that with leaving Ravn out of games when the game has been over with long before the clock ran out.

The Ravn looked awful in warmups. There's a good reason Roque has less confidence in him than you have in Roque. He probably couldn't keep Son of Truth off the scoreboard.

LakerBlues
02-16-2014, 04:20 PM
The Ravn looked awful in warmups. There's a good reason Roque has less confidence in him than you have in Roque. He probably couldn't keep Son of Truth off the scoreboard.Why don't you just go ahead and let us know the reasons. You look so knowledgeable.
Make sure you tell us where in the coaching 101 manual your see that you help a team winning by refusing a player on a team picture, refusing the same player access to practices and to the bench at home games and preventing still the same player from getting a new equipment as anyone else on the team.
You would do the teammates and the staff a big favor by proving that this has nothing to do with victimization because the situation is very embarrassing.
Although he would have good reasons for just giving Roque a finger, the kid is there to help out the team and the coach who would otherwise have been in trouble, and you call him "The Ravn" in attempt to defend your friend when his respect is questioned.
Do you really mean that being hot in an otherwise pathetic warmup would make a difference regarding ice time in the third period ?
Come on !

RapidsCity
02-16-2014, 07:11 PM
Why don't you just go ahead and let us know the reasons. You look so knowledgeable.
Make sure you tell us where in the coaching 101 manual your see that you help a team winning by refusing a player on a team picture, refusing the same player access to practices and to the bench at home games and preventing still the same player from getting a new equipment as anyone else on the team.
You would do the teammates and the staff a big favor by proving that this has nothing to do with victimization because the situation is very embarrassing.
Although he would have good reasons for just giving Roque a finger, the kid is there to help out the team and the coach who would otherwise have been in trouble, and you call him "The Ravn" in attempt to defend your friend when his respect is questioned.
Do you really mean that being hot in an otherwise pathetic warmup would make a difference regarding ice time in the third period ?
Come on !

Where would i have claimed to be a Roque supporter. I've said several times he hasn't won enough at LSSU. The reasons he looked awful in warmups? Easy, he couldn't stop pucks.

sm2pk
02-16-2014, 07:27 PM
The Ravn looked awful in warmups. There's a good reason Roque has less confidence in him than you have in Roque. He probably couldn't keep Son of Truth off the scoreboard.

I don't care if Ravn gives up 500 goals in practice. When you go after a kid to recruit and than sit him for 4 years and as a senior when your starting goalie has already lost the game . You put the backup in and allow him to be part of the game and the team. How **** hard is that to understand ?

RapidsCity
02-16-2014, 08:01 PM
I don't care if Ravn gives up 500 goals in practice. When you go after a kid to recruit and than sit him for 4 years and as a senior when your starting goalie has already lost the game . You put the backup in and allow him to be part of the game and the team. How **** hard is that to understand ?

So please coach, define exactly when the game has gotten away. Ever play or coach above the pee wee level? Maybe to you it doesn't matter if the loss is 5-1 or 8-1, but it does matter to the other 18 guys in that room. But hey, as long as you keep the one who rattle their keyboards happy, that's the first responsibility. You were probably a son of Truth fan too.

Laker Dude
02-16-2014, 08:24 PM
So please coach, define exactly when the game has gotten away. Ever play or coach above the pee wee level? Maybe to you it doesn't matter if the loss is 5-1 or 8-1, but it does matter to the other 18 guys in that room. But hey, as long as you keep the one who rattle their keyboards happy, that's the first responsibility. You were probably a son of Truth fan too.

Well said.

Laker Dude
02-16-2014, 08:34 PM
Hopefully Kapalka will be back this weekend, and there will be no need to discuss the goaltending situation. Not sure if they will want to chance bringing him on the long 17 hour bus ride to play this weekend if he is not 100%.

Kapalka should definitely be back for the Mankato games.

davyd83
02-16-2014, 08:42 PM
Hopefully Kapalka will be back this weekend, and there will be no need to discuss the goaltending situation. Not sure if they will want to chance bringing him on the long 17 hour bus ride to play this weekend if he is not 100%.

Kapalka should definitely be back for the Mankato games.
That bus ride could be a factor, although they could fly Kapalka down as well if they feel he is ready to go. It's interesting to note that despite losing Robinson and Lain early and Kapalka for half the season and having a sub par performance from Murdock, that the team is a little ahead of where they were last year based upon overall winning percentage. You do have some pretty solid kids in the lineup as well. You're also only 4 pts out of a Top 4 finish and a home playoff berth with two games in hand over each of those teams that are tied for that final home spot. A 4-2 record and a shot at playing at home in the first round is hardly out of the question.

LSSULaker889294
02-16-2014, 10:12 PM
That bus ride could be a factor, although they could fly Kapalka down as well if they feel he is ready to go. It's interesting to note that despite losing Robinson and Lain early and Kapalka for half the season and having a sub par performance from Murdock, that the team is a little ahead of where they were last year based upon overall winning percentage. You do have some pretty solid kids in the lineup as well. You're also only 4 pts out of a Top 4 finish and a home playoff berth with two games in hand over each of those teams that are tied for that final home spot. A 4-2 record and a shot at playing at home in the first round is hardly out of the question.

I think top 4 is out of the picture. The last two series are against Mankato and Ferris State and we can't win on Saturdays. I wouldn't be surprised if we lost to the lowly Chargers next Saturday.

Bill
02-17-2014, 07:30 AM
So please coach, define exactly when the game has gotten away. Ever play or coach above the pee wee level? Maybe to you it doesn't matter if the loss is 5-1 or 8-1, but it does matter to the other 18 guys in that room. But hey, as long as you keep the one who rattle their keyboards happy, that's the first responsibility. You were probably a son of Truth fan too.Sometimes you pull your starting goalie fairly early in a game (maybe even if he's only given up 2 or 3 goals) if it it's evident that he isn't on his game even though the rest of the team may be playing OK. Sometimes you pull him later if the team isn't playing well in front of him and the score is starting to get out of hand; maybe he's given up 5 or 6 goals but isn't playing all that bad, and your team hasn't scored much if at all. It might be a combination of those circumstances. You're also hoping to shake up the rest of the players on the team when you pull a goalie; trying to do something to hopefully light a fire under them, especially if they are the ones who aren't playing well. In any case, it's usually your starting goalie whom your trying to protect from being humiliated or his ego jarred. If he's playing good but the rest of the team isn't, and the opposition is starting to run up the score, I think many coaches are going to think about pulling him to protect his ego rather than leave him in to keep the rest of players from feeling humiliated. I'm not saying it doesn't happen the other way around occasionally, but your starting goalie is the main guy who's ego it is you're trying to protect.

As to how many goals are too many, I don't think there is a set number. Years ago, when the Red Wings trounced the Canadians in Montreal (11-1) and that led to Patrick Roy blowing up at coach Mario Tremblay and demanding a trade (which he got), I think Roy said afterwards that he felt he should have been pulled after the 5th Detroit goal (he gave up 9 before being pulled). That was definitely a night where he was off his game more so than the rest of the Canadians, although the rest of the team didn't play very well either.

Back check
02-17-2014, 08:53 AM
Sometimes you pull your starting goalie fairly early in a game (maybe even if he's only given up 2 or 3 goals) if it it's evident that he isn't on his game even though the rest of the team may be playing OK. Sometimes you pull him later if the team isn't playing well in front of him and the score is starting to get out of hand; maybe he's given up 5 or 6 goals but isn't playing all that bad, and your team hasn't scored much if at all. It might be a combination of those circumstances. You're also hoping to shake up the rest of the players on the team when you pull a goalie; trying to do something to hopefully light a fire under them, especially if they are the ones who aren't playing well. In any case, it's usually your starting goalie whom your trying to protect from being humiliated or his ego jarred. If he's playing good but the rest of the team isn't, and the opposition is starting to run up the score, I think many coaches are going to think about pulling him to protect his ego rather than leave him in to keep the rest of players from feeling humiliated. I'm not saying it doesn't happen the other way around occasionally, but your starting goalie is the main guy who's ego it is you're trying to protect.

As to how many goals are too many, I don't think there is a set number. Years ago, when the Red Wings trounced the Canadians in Montreal (11-1) and that led to Patrick Roy blowing up at coach Mario Tremblay and demanding a trade (which he got), I think Roy said afterwards that he felt he should have been pulled after the 5th Detroit goal (he gave up 9 before being pulled). That was definitely a night where he was off his game more so than the rest of the Canadians, although the rest of the team didn't play very well either.

Not pulling a goalie in a certain situation is defensible; not playing a recruited player over a four-year career, and treating him poorly, is not.

sm2pk
02-17-2014, 09:03 AM
I will tell you when you try and give a recruited goalie some play. When your starting goalie has given up 8 goals on the wekend and the second night he has given up 5 of them and the game is lost and you recruited the backup goalie sitting on your bench and act as if he doesn't exist. I call that zero class and the guy has to go.

Pink Pony
02-17-2014, 09:16 AM
Year 10 will be the best one yet???

Yes

Lakerblue
02-17-2014, 09:19 AM
If anyone thinks that the Lakers' inability to win on a consistent basis is related, directly or abstractly, to Ravn, are just making noise.

Seriously, if you want to pick on the coach, and blame him -- and I suggest he is fair game -- then find some real tangible things to pick on:

1. Fitness. Roque teams seem to tire and injure easily as the season moves along. I don't know why. Perhaps there is a fitness issue, maybe its just bad luck. But the team seems to tire every weekend, and the 2nd and third periods of Saturday night games, especially on the road, have been horrible. For that, I can partially blame fitness.

2. Game plan. The game plan and execution the past few years has been much improved. But Each year, as the season moves into the second half, opposite teams seem to make minor adjustments to counter LSSU's plans. Thus, I can't blame fitness entirely for the second half and Saturday night failures. It just seems like other teams adjust, and LSSU does not.

3. Loss of players. Roque is correct that his entire first line is playing their upper-classmen years in the AHL and some getting a cup in the NHL. There is no argument that these missing players would improve the team tremendously. The question to ask is not why a player leaves for the pro ranks, because every program loses top players early. The better question to ask is why ALL of LSSU's better players leave early. And perhaps this has a lot more to do with the Soo (our beloved by struggling little town) than the coach. Anzalone and Jackson and Borek lost their top lines early, seemingly every year. You can blame the coach or the early departures -- but if we're being honest, we need to look at our own back yard for SOME answers.

4. Loss of players, Part II: Now, blame the coach all you want for these guys leaving early. But remember, he was the man who convinced them to come. And there isn't a single top-tier player who left because he wasn't getting ice time. Frankly, Ravn is the only highly touted recruit (Bill could probably correct me, but I think I am close to being correct) who didn't get all the ice they wanted. So the question is this: Has the coach created a culture in LSSU which wants players to stay and finish the job? Note top-flight programs like BC and North Dakota usually manage to keep many of their high-draft-pick kids for three-four years -- in many cases because they have "unfinished business" with the program. I would opine that this culture is being built at Ferris, for instance. If there is an intangible failure you an pin on Roque -- I would perhaps point to this issue. Not to say Roque doesn't bleed blue and gold. He does. But there seems to be something missing in the "spirit" department.

5. Fan support. Old story. Winners get fans. Also old story --- Roque has done little, if anything, to build a better relationship with the fans. He isn't Frank -- who demanded students attend. He isn't Jackson -- whose teams were so good nobody could miss a game. He isn't even Borek -- who tried to be more intellectual about the process. Roque just seems to have run out of sentences to say in his dull radio interviews. The students also suck. Sorry, its true. The current students suck. They suck suck suck.
I blame the administration for this, though.
The admin's ten-year war on beer at LSSU basically chases most students off campus by 3:00 on a Friday. What used to be a prime time to get ready for a hockey game is now a traffic jam on I-75 South. I also think that scheduling four different home series while students are gone!

I DO, however, blame the students for taking this gestapo-like kiddy-cop infested admin assault on their personal freedoms limply.



Just my thoughts.

Bill
02-17-2014, 10:04 AM
Hopefully Kapalka will be back this weekend, and there will be no need to discuss the goaltending situation. Not sure if they will want to chance bringing him on the long 17 hour bus ride to play this weekend if he is not 100%.

Kapalka should definitely be back for the Mankato games.I think he's pretty much ready to go physically. It probably boils down to whether he mentally feels better about starting again on the road against a weaker opponent or starting again at home against a stronger opponent.

Laker54
02-17-2014, 10:11 AM
If anyone thinks that the Lakers' inability to win on a consistent basis is related, directly or abstractly, to Ravn, are just making noise.

Seriously, if you want to pick on the coach, and blame him -- and I suggest he is fair game -- then find some real tangible things to pick on:

1. Fitness. Roque teams seem to tire and injure easily as the season moves along. I don't know why. Perhaps there is a fitness issue, maybe its just bad luck. But the team seems to tire every weekend, and the 2nd and third periods of Saturday night games, especially on the road, have been horrible. For that, I can partially blame fitness.

2. Game plan. The game plan and execution the past few years has been much improved. But Each year, as the season moves into the second half, opposite teams seem to make minor adjustments to counter LSSU's plans. Thus, I can't blame fitness entirely for the second half and Saturday night failures. It just seems like other teams adjust, and LSSU does not.

3. Loss of players. Roque is correct that his entire first line is playing their upper-classmen years in the AHL and some getting a cup in the NHL. There is no argument that these missing players would improve the team tremendously. The question to ask is not why a player leaves for the pro ranks, because every program loses top players early. The better question to ask is why ALL of LSSU's better players leave early. And perhaps this has a lot more to do with the Soo (our beloved by struggling little town) than the coach. Anzalone and Jackson and Borek lost their top lines early, seemingly every year. You can blame the coach or the early departures -- but if we're being honest, we need to look at our own back yard for SOME answers.

4. Loss of players, Part II: Now, blame the coach all you want for these guys leaving early. But remember, he was the man who convinced them to come. And there isn't a single top-tier player who left because he wasn't getting ice time. Frankly, Ravn is the only highly touted recruit (Bill could probably correct me, but I think I am close to being correct) who didn't get all the ice they wanted. So the question is this: Has the coach created a culture in LSSU which wants players to stay and finish the job? Note top-flight programs like BC and North Dakota usually manage to keep many of their high-draft-pick kids for three-four years -- in many cases because they have "unfinished business" with the program. I would opine that this culture is being built at Ferris, for instance. If there is an intangible failure you an pin on Roque -- I would perhaps point to this issue. Not to say Roque doesn't bleed blue and gold. He does. But there seems to be something missing in the "spirit" department.

5. Fan support. Old story. Winners get fans. Also old story --- Roque has done little, if anything, to build a better relationship with the fans. He isn't Frank -- who demanded students attend. He isn't Jackson -- whose teams were so good nobody could miss a game. He isn't even Borek -- who tried to be more intellectual about the process. Roque just seems to have run out of sentences to say in his dull radio interviews. The students also suck. Sorry, its true. The current students suck. They suck suck suck.
I blame the administration for this, though.
The admin's ten-year war on beer at LSSU basically chases most students off campus by 3:00 on a Friday. What used to be a prime time to get ready for a hockey game is now a traffic jam on I-75 South. I also think that scheduling four different home series while students are gone!

I DO, however, blame the students for taking this gestapo-like kiddy-cop infested admin assault on their personal freedoms limply.



Just my thoughts.

Well said Lakerblue. In your points #1 & #2 I think you summed up the problems with second half of the season and the Saturday problems. I would add to your points 1 & 2 the team seems to lose focus, which is why the basics like skating & passing seem to be poorer in the second half of the season and particularly on Saturdays.

Bill
02-17-2014, 10:12 AM
If anyone thinks that the Lakers' inability to win on a consistent basis is related, directly or abstractly, to Ravn, are just making noise.

I doubt anyone thinks that it is strictly related to Ravn.



So the question is this: Has the coach created a culture in LSSU which wants players to stay and finish the job?
I don't think so.