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Hammy
10-27-2013, 11:03 PM
Puck possession only matters if you do something good with it... like score goals. Look no further than some of the Wild games this year. The Wild owned the puck a lot in some games but they were losing because they weren't scoring goals. So who cares about puck possession in such situations?

It is sort of like the concept of ball control offense in the NFL. Maybe a team has the ball for a lot of the game because they can run the ball but if they don't score TDs with that offense, does it really matter if the opponent scores with their opportunities? You don't have to have the ball a lot and still score TDs if you are efficient.

The reality is you have to ask yourself do you really gain anything with a potential replacement. Boyd was used as an example. Well, Boyd is a +2 with 4 pts. so far and Kloos is a +7 with 9 pts. That faceoff thing. That's a measure... just a not a very good one when judging the overall situation. (In a shocking turn of events, Kloos had a better faceoff % today than Boyd...)

If you want a "weak link" when it comes to puck possession on that line, Cammy would be the guy. But the reality is he is too offensively gifted to waste his talents on a 3rd or 4th line. It would be a fish out of water. As poisondart mentioned, sometimes you have to accept a few flaws if the overall result is much more positive than negative. Big picture.

Stauber1
10-27-2013, 11:22 PM
Puck possession only matters if you do something good with it... like score goals. Look no further than some of the Wild games this year. The Wild owned the puck a lot in some games but they were losing because they weren't scoring goals. So who cares about puck possession in such situations?

It is sort of like the concept of ball control offense in the NFL. Maybe a team has the ball a lot because they can run the ball but if they don't score TDs with that offense, does it really matter? On the flip side, you don't have to have the ball a lot and still score TDs if you are efficient with the opportunities you have.

The reality is you have to ask yourself do you really gain anything with a potential replacement. Boyd was used as an example. Well, Boyd is a +2 with 4 pts. so far and Kloos is a +7 with 9 pts. That faceoff thing. That's a measure... just a not a very good one when judging the overall situation. (In a shocking turn of events, Kloos had a better faceoff % today than Boyd...)

If you want a "weak link" when it comes to puck possession on that line, Cammy would be the guy. But the reality is he is too offensively gifted to waste his talents on a 3rd or 4th line. It would be a fish out of water. As poisondart mentioned, sometimes you have to accept a few flaws if the overall result is much more positive than negative. Big picture.

While I agree with most of what you have said, that bolded part is questionable. Puck possession doesn't guarantee wins, but if you own the puck more often than not and own a territorial advantage, it gives you a better chance to win. Hemming a team in and bottling them up pays dividends maybe not on each individual possession but certainly over the course of an entire game or series. I Think you'd be hard pressed to find many who disagree with that.
As for football, I'm no expert...but I'd guess you would have a hard time finding a team who wouldn't take a significant edge in possession if it were offered to them before the game.

As for Boyd, I do think he has improved significantly over his previous 2 seasons at the U. But like I said originally, I was just kind of throwing his name out there.

Again, I wasn't suggesting it because I thought Kloos wasn't delivering offensively, rather I said his presence on the 3rd line would give MN even more scoring depth across their top 3 lines.

But, again, for about the 5th time...point taken that the line's limitations are trumped if they continue to produce like this.

Hammy
10-27-2013, 11:37 PM
I'm not saying puck possession doesn't matter at all. I'm simply saying if you change up a line and it no longer produces to the level it did prior to that, who really cares as much about puck possession? I'd rather be efficient and score goals than the opposite.

By the way, my original comment on Boyd was not aimed toward you specifically. Just the idea that we should even really be thinking of replacing our 2nd line center who happens to be the top point producing center on the team and using something like faceoff percentage as any kind of justification. I'm sure there are some good 4th line centers in college hockey that are good at the face off dot... but so what when they can't produce nearly as well as a kid like Kloos in many other areas of the game.

FiveHoleFrenzy
10-27-2013, 11:47 PM
I don't know about all the analysis. Kind of seems like over thinking what is a pretty darn entertaining team to watch. I'm looking forward to seeing what they will do at Notre Dame in a couple of weeks.

Stauber1
10-27-2013, 11:49 PM
I'm not saying puck possession doesn't matter at all. I'm simply saying if you change up a line and it no longer produces to the level it did prior to that, who really cares as much about puck possession? I'd rather be efficient and score goals than the opposite.

By the way, my original comment on Boyd was not aimed toward you specifically. Just the idea that we should even really be thinking of replacing our 2nd line center who happens to be the top point producing center on the team and using something like faceoff percentage as any kind of justification. I'm sure there are some good 4th line centers in college hockey that are good at the face off dot... but so what when they can't produce nearly as well as a kid like Kloos in many other areas of the game.

The only reason it would make sense is if some of those points migrate with him to the line he moves to, and/or it influences goals against.
I agree, using face-offs as a sole justification wouldn't make a lot of sense. But if the line does struggle on face-offs to the point where they were only put on the ice for 9/60+ (going off of the numbers you reported) then that is a further limitation for the line.

I agree that with the way they have scored and continue to look better the more they play, the less valid that suggestion is.

Slap Shot
10-28-2013, 12:01 AM
To me it seems like a cut your nose type overreaction because every line is going to have weak points, and I don't see the net results improving by messing with that line. and I say that as someone that would like to see Lettieri on the 2nd line, but would agree it probably makes less sense to tweak right now.

Stauber1
10-28-2013, 12:15 AM
To me it seems like a cut your nose type overreaction because every line is going to have weak points, and I don't see the net results improving by messing with that line. and I say that as someone that would like to see Lettieri on the 2nd line, but would agree it probably makes less sense to tweak right now.

And that's a good point.

Just to clarify again and then I'll let this drop and save everyone.
I didn't say I wanted to see it happen or that it should happen, I simply said I wouldn't be surprised if we saw that line broken up at some point in the next month or two. I also said I was sure some people would call me crazy, which just might turn out to be the most accurate prediction in that post :)

Koho
10-28-2013, 12:46 AM
While I agree with most of what you have said, that bolded part is questionable. Puck possession doesn't guarantee wins, but if you own the puck more often than not and own a territorial advantage, it gives you a better chance to win. Hemming a team in and bottling them up pays dividends maybe not on each individual possession but certainly over the course of an entire game or series. I Think you'd be hard pressed to find many who disagree with that.
As for football, I'm no expert...but I'd guess you would have a hard time finding a team who wouldn't take a significant edge in possession if it were offered to them before the game.

As for Boyd, I do think he has improved significantly over his previous 2 seasons at the U. But like I said originally, I was just kind of throwing his name out there.

Again, I wasn't suggesting it because I thought Kloos wasn't delivering offensively, rather I said his presence on the 3rd line would give MN even more scoring depth across their top 3 lines.

But, again, for about the 5th time...point taken that the line's limitations are trumped if they continue to produce like this.

I think Hammy's post refered to the fact that what you really need a line to do is score more goals than the opposing line. Kloos is a +7. That is the most important variable in winning. Puck possession is nice, but it all comes down to who scores the most goals. Lucia has had a history of mixing lines up, so if the Gophs have a couple sub-par games in a row, yeah, I could see him mixing up the lines. But the 2nd line is doing well where it matters most.

And yeah, Cammi isn't going to be bouncing guys off the puck, but I sure liked the play on Friday where he hoofed it the length of the ice to catch a BC player from behind and picked his pocket. He is not purely a one-way player. He makes some great passes, although I can see him being told to shoot a little more (sort of like Haula a few years ago). A couple times he hasn't even looked at the net, just for someone to pass to.

Koho
10-28-2013, 12:50 AM
And while I am far from an Isaacson fan, I do feel like people on here just get a guy each year and can't even acknowledge what he does well. (Remember Holl a couple years ago, now look at his play.) Isaacson does do better along the boards coming away with the puck than a lot of guys. He had the one play that resulted in a goal because of his forecheck. Not saying he has earned regular time, just that he isn't as bad as some say.

Stauber1
10-28-2013, 01:37 AM
And while I am far from an Isaacson fan, I do feel like people on here just get a guy each year and can't even acknowledge what he does well. (Remember Holl a couple years ago, now look at his play.) Isaacson does do better along the boards coming away with the puck than a lot of guys. He had the one play that resulted in a goal because of his forecheck. Not saying he has earned regular time, just that he isn't as bad as some say.

My issue with Isackson is consistency. You just never know what you are going to get from him shift to shift. Some shifts he does some really great stuff, and others he totally misses the boat.

He certainly has the tools, and if he didn't he wouldn't be getting the opportunity of every other game that he has been getting this season. But if he wants to stick in the line-up he needs to start playing with more consistency.

gopher wes
10-28-2013, 12:23 PM
Can you imagine if this team can get their PP clicking?!:eek:

D2D
10-28-2013, 05:29 PM
With 34 first place votes the Gophers are now a unanimous No. 1 in the USA Today poll.

http://www.uscho.com/rankings/usa-today-mens/2013-2014/poll,1028/october-28,-2013/

Also now unanimous No. 1 in USCHO poll with 50 first place votes.

http://www.uscho.com/rankings/d-i-mens-poll/2013-2014/poll,1021/october-21,-2013/

Kind of hoping Notre Dame does well enough against Vermont to retain their No. 2 ranking so when we face them in South Bend it'll be No. 1 vs. No. 2.

mnstate0fhockey
10-28-2013, 05:42 PM
Can you imagine if this team can get their PP clicking?!:eek:

No kidding. Scary :D

captain beefheart
10-28-2013, 07:32 PM
I don't know about all the analysis. Kind of seems like over thinking what is a pretty darn entertaining team to watch. I'm looking forward to seeing what they will do at Notre Dame in a couple of weeks.

Very much this. But then again, I am here to lurk more than anything, that and to be entertained. Carry on.

Koho
10-28-2013, 10:26 PM
My issue with Isackson is consistency. You just never know what you are going to get from him shift to shift. Some shifts he does some really great stuff, and others he totally misses the boat.

He certainly has the tools, and if he didn't he wouldn't be getting the opportunity of every other game that he has been getting this season. But if he wants to stick in the line-up he needs to start playing with more consistency.

I said the same thing a couple pages ago. But I would also say that many people also said it about Skjei and Holl over the last couple years, but they are much more consistent this year because they were given the time to play. Not saying he should play all the time, but he isn't going to get more consistent by sitting all the time either.

SanTropez
10-28-2013, 10:50 PM
He had plenty of playing time last year and played on the top line as well early on from what I remember. He didnt do squat.

gopher wes
10-29-2013, 10:00 AM
He had plenty of playing time last year and played on the top line as well early on from what I remember. He didnt do squat.
I agree, he didn't do a whole lot last year and that was while playing on a line with Rau and Bjugstad(at least to start the year). If he couldn't do it with those guys.....

Koho
10-30-2013, 06:58 PM
My point is, if you show you have skills, but lack consistency, consistency typically improves with experience and maturity. If you lack the skills, more playing time isn't going to help much. He had games last year where he did quite well on the forecheck and occasionally makes the big move to set up a goal (like he did against BC) or even score one. My bigger question is whether his holding the puck too long at times is a sign of a person who is still adjusting to the speed of the game, or of someone who just doesn't have good hockey sense. Once again, the first one should improve with playing time, the second, not so much. I assume the coaches see something in his play to warrant the chances he gets. Its not like the others who are shuffling in and out are head and shoulders better than Isaackson, so I have no problem letting him get his chances.

D2D
10-31-2013, 11:23 AM
North Dakota, Minnesota to renew historic rivalry

http://www.undsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=209295115

firstpusk
10-31-2013, 01:36 PM
North Dakota, Minnesota to renew historic rivalry

http://www.undsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=209295115

Why are we doing these cupcakes any favors? :D