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mnstate0fhockey
01-14-2014, 10:04 PM
All true.

That said, I'd like to see this team start to step on the throats of the opposition.

Show no mercy.

Not take entire chunks of periods off.

Yes, they swept Penn State.

They also got outshot and outplayed for long stretches by a team one year removed from club status.

I'd like to think that would get their attention.

But I doubt it.

PSU has been putting a lot of shots on net pretty consistently this season, so the fact that they put a lot of shots on net versus us isn't entirely surprising. They just aren't very efficient with those shots.

The Gophers completely outplayed PSU on Sunday, but ran into a goaltender that was playing out of his mind. Yes, we could have created more of a net front presence and capitalized on some second-chance opportunities, but you also have to sometimes just tip your cap to the other goaltender.

Monday was a little different as I do agree that PSU had far more sustained pressure in the offensive zone than they did Sunday. A lot of that, in my opinion, was the result of the Gophers not getting nearly as much sustained pressure in the offensive zone. Our fore check was non-existent and a lot of that had to do with turnovers in the neutral zone and bad dumps (when they didn't turn it over trying to carry it in).

I don't think this was an effort issue as much as it was an execution issue. One of the reasons I am happy about the Big Ten Conference schedule being heavy in the second half (and Lucia mentioned this too) is that it gives the team a lot more time on an NHL sheet leading into the post season as I do think that was a factor (and has been a factor at times this season and in seasons past).

burd
01-14-2014, 10:27 PM
I have a feeling this might be Minnesota's year. It's an ill feeling, but a feeling.

HarleyMC
01-15-2014, 12:00 AM
Harley - Not trying to discount your points on Cammarata, but my only question is where would you play him? He doesn't have the skillset to play a bottom line checking role.

Thanks for your good response msoh.:) What I don't understand is why Cammarata should receive any special attention and be afforded a spot on the top line with two of our best forwards because of his "LIMITED" skill set"? Let's look at his skill set. What I read over and over again is he's a good passer and has good ice vision. Did I miss anything?

Here are 10 things I've observed in Cammarata after 20 games: 1) Rarely will you see him involving himself in a forecheck or backcheck, 2) he's NOT a fast skater at all, 3) he's not strong on his skates and is easily checked off the puck, 4) he refuses to go into the corners even to help a linemate when an extra dig is needed, 5) he rarely gives any solid physical effort into battling for pucks along the walls, 6) when he does have the puck he plays "hot potato" and often releases it too early instead of setting up the play, 7) he simply doesn't put pucks on net and he has the lowest SOG total among all forwards with 18+ games played, 8) he's often seen skating circles near the blueline waiting for his linemates to feed him an outlet pass, 9) his stickhandling skills are average, and 10) rarely will you see him near the paint battling for pucks in front.

Yes, this kid has an upside, but he has a HUGE downside. Somehow he managed to get away with this subpar level of play in the USHL alongside Kloos and from what I observed when they were on the same line here, Kloos was constantly playing into his "cherry picking" style and feeding him the puck. That style will NOT work in NCAA D1 hockey. Teams are generally bigger, faster, and stronger than in the USHL and love to run over primadonna guys like Cammarata just for style points.

In essence, he needs to abandon his old comfort zone and style of play, and become a more complete hockey player. IMO, Rau isn't the one who should take on the responsibility in mentoring him and especially not at this point in the season when second half play is ramped up headed towards the playoffs. That's a coaching issue. You're exactly right, his skill set is not designed for a checking line. But can he learn how to battle for pucks in the corners and along the walls and develop a gritty style to his game by playing on the 4th line? I think so and he'd be a better player because of it.

Slap Shot
01-15-2014, 12:13 AM
If you're winning it means there's nothing that could be improved upon, and nothing that could cause problems down the road?

Don't be obtuse. Of course they're not perfect, but in end that's the point. What team has ever been perfect? How many NC winners didn't have flaws? I've pointed out weaknesses myself, including at times sloppy play, the PP, etc. However, the caveat has always been perspective and the big picture while sometimes the criticism I'm reading isn't all that bright, in fact short-sighted and assumes calamity in the end.

Do people wigging out about the supposed lack of killer instinct against PSU realize they lost two 1-goal games vs. Union and single goal losses to Lowell and UW? That their G is one of only a handful to be drafted across all of D1? That they dominated Fri but didn't solve the G and that while they were outshot on Sat the game never felt in doubt? That they have 2 losses, the #1 PWR while playing the 3rd toughest SOS?

Enjoy the ride.

HarleyMC
01-15-2014, 12:17 AM
Kloos is considerably more solid than Cammarata. Same with Rau. That being said, Cammarata doesn't need to be as physical or gritty as Rau, he just needs some degree of grittiness or willingness to take contact. He's not really showing either of those at all.

As I've said before, I have no doubt that he will turn into a great college hockey player, but to me this seems like a case where he probably should have played another year of juniors to give him the chance to mature a bit physically. I don't think he was/is ready, physically, to make the jump. To put it another way, I think someone like Connor Reilly could offer pretty much the same production in that role right now, and probably more in terms of being a 2-way player and in forechecking pressure.

Hammy and MSOH have pointed out that he isn't going to have success in a 3rd/4th line role. And history shows us that Lucia isn't one to sit his highly-touted finesse players early in their careers. The bed has been made, for better or worse. That's why I like to see him skating with Rau. He needs to start being willing to take a hit, and probably just as important he needs to learn how to take a hit. Rau is a good guy to learn that from. He doesn't need to match Rau in the grit department, he just needs to learn a few of the finer points.

At the end of the day, though, this team has the ability to take home some hardware. So if things aren't working out I'd like to see Rau put on a line that allows him to perform to his potential offensively. In my opinion, we haven't hit that crossroad just yet.

Excellent post Stauber! Will Cammarata be moved? I agree it's doubtful in the immediate future for the reason you mentioned. But if things go south for that line, I also want Rau on a line that favors his scoring efforts. Rau has proven despite his size, he will give 110% to battle for pucks and put himself in a position to score. We'll need that down the stretch if this team wants to avoid the crash and burn we saw last postseason.


If you're winning it means there's nothing that could be improved upon, and nothing that could cause problems down the road? :confused:

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I'm pretty sure EVERYONE who has been posting in this thread has expressed how pleased they are with the team's success. That doesn't mean there aren't things that could be better, and players that can improve. People are going to discuss those things. That seems pretty obvious to me.

Wait a minute, we're 15-2-3 and the third best start in Gopher history! What could possibly go wrong?:D #1 and #2 didn't place any NCAA hardware in the trophy case.

HarleyMC
01-15-2014, 12:22 AM
Don't be obtuse. Of course they're not perfect, but in end that's the point. What team has ever been perfect? How many NC winners didn't have flaws? I've pointed out weaknesses myself, including at times sloppy play, the PP, etc. However, the caveat has always been perspective and the big picture while sometimes the criticism I'm reading isn't all that bright, in fact short-sighted and assumes calamity in the end.

Enjoy the ride.

There's a difference between assuming calamity and discussing weaknesses that MAY lead to it. No one's "assuming calamity" except YOU.:rolleyes:

Slap Shot
01-15-2014, 12:25 AM
There's a difference between assuming calamity and discussing weaknesses that MAY lead to it.

I'm criticizing only the former and if you're not guilty of it what's your beef?

HarleyMC
01-15-2014, 12:27 AM
I'm criticizing only the former and if you're not guilty of it what's your beef?

Here read my lips clown: NO ONE IS ASSUMING CALAMITY.

The Rube
01-15-2014, 12:29 AM
Here read my lips clown: NO ONE IS ASSUMING CALAMITY.

Over-react much?

This ain't my first rodeo, but I (with slight bias as I know Slappy personally) side with Slap Shot. His reaction is justified in this case. The sky is not falling, and stop trying to poison the Kool Aid. ;)

HarleyMC
01-15-2014, 12:32 AM
Over-react much?

This ain't my first rodeo, but I (with slight bias as I know Slappy personally) side with Slap Shot. His reaction is justified in this case. The sky is not falling, and stop trying to poison the Kool Aid. ;)

Ok, Brentburger, give me the poster names of those who are saying the "sky is falling". Show me the names.

Slap Shot
01-15-2014, 12:34 AM
Here read my lips clown: NO ONE IS ASSUMING CALAMITY.


Wait a minute, we're 15-2-3 and the third best start in Gopher history! What could possibly go wrong? #1 and #2 didn't place any NCAA hardware in the trophy case.

This isn't the only comment that is whiney. Of course something could go wrong but it's not because they didn't beat PSU by 5+ both nights as has been alluded to. Get a grip.

The Rube
01-15-2014, 12:42 AM
This isn't the only comment that is whiney. Of course something could go wrong but it's not because they didn't beat PSU by 5+ both nights as has been alluded to. Get a grip.

Hey Harley: this.

HarleyMC
01-15-2014, 12:42 AM
This isn't the only comment that is whiney. Of course something could go wrong but it's not because they didn't beat PSU by 5+ both nights as has been alluded to. Get a grip.

I see you deleted the "tantrum" comment. That's good since that would be another one of your myopic and deductive assumptions. Get a grip?:D How 'bout you get a brain that fires on all cylinders. Wow...what the fk is wrong with you?

Slap Shot
01-15-2014, 12:55 AM
I see you deleted the "tantrum" comment. That's good since that would be another one of your myopic and deductive assumptions. Get a grip?:D How 'bout you get a brain that fires on all cylinders. Wow...what the fk is wrong with you?

You're acting as if I insulted your mother by expressing my opinion that some of the commentary is a bit over the top negative. Never said they can't improve, but the difference is I believe they will not they won't rather then let the unknown infect my viewing experience I'm going to enjoy the ride.

Fact is a favorite team is not going to win it all far more often than otherwise, but if that's all you can focus on during a regular season in which the team is off to a very good start against a very rough SOS then why bother?

There is nothing wrong with me, I'm excited for the possibilities.

HarleyMC
01-15-2014, 12:55 AM
Hey Harley: this.

If you read my post, I listed 10 observations on Cammarata (which is what is being discussed here) OVER 20 GAMES. You're a LITTLE biased??:rolleyes: Think again.

EDIT:

And where are the poster names of those who are saying "sky is falling", grasshopper? Or are you recanting on that? You should.

The Rube
01-15-2014, 01:03 AM
If you read my post, I listed 10 observations on Cammarata (which is what is being discussed here) OVER 20 GAMES. You're a LITTLE biased??:rolleyes: Think again.

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/lowum.gif

HarleyMC
01-15-2014, 01:11 AM
You're acting as if I insulted your mother by expressing my opinion that some of the commentary is a bit over the top negative. Never said they can't improve, but the difference is I believe they will not they won't rather then let the unknown infect my viewing experience I'm going to enjoy the ride.

What the fk are you talkin' about? I think we need a translator here.:D If I understand your drivel correctly, any discussion that is perhaps negative in your opinion is going to contaminate your "viewing experience"?:eek: What are your expectation for a college hockey discussion board? By all means, go ahead and quarantine yourself 'til the end of season, then no one could possibly cause you to actually think.


Fact is a favorite team is not going to win it all far more often than otherwise, but if that's all you can focus on during a regular season in which the team is off to a very good start against a very rough SOS then why bother? There is nothing wrong with me, I'm excited for the possibilities.

Wow. Go back and read Stauber's post again and then go to bed. You're not making any sense at all tonight.

HarleyMC
01-15-2014, 01:16 AM
http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/lowum.gif

Took you too long to find that...you're slippin' boy. I told you not to hang out on GPL.

Stauber1
01-15-2014, 02:34 AM
Don't be obtuse. Of course they're not perfect, but in end that's the point. What team has ever been perfect? How many NC winners didn't have flaws? I've pointed out weaknesses myself, including at times sloppy play, the PP, etc. However, the caveat has always been perspective and the big picture while sometimes the criticism I'm reading isn't all that bright, in fact short-sighted and assumes calamity in the end.

Do people wigging out about the supposed lack of killer instinct against PSU realize they lost two 1-goal games vs. Union and single goal losses to Lowell and UW? That their G is one of only a handful to be drafted across all of D1? That they dominated Fri but didn't solve the G and that while they were outshot on Sat the game never felt in doubt? That they have 2 losses, the #1 PWR while playing the 3rd toughest SOS?

Enjoy the ride.
I agree with you that I don't find the SOG disparity on Sunday to be all that concerning, nor do I think Penn St is at the level of a bottom rung Atlantic Hockey team. That being said, I think most folks can enjoy the ride while discussing some of the issues that the team or a particular player has, and I don't take the discussion itself to mean that people believe calamity to be imminent. I guess I have to disagree about the amount of "over-the-top negativity" you are seeing.


My only wish for Cammy is to see a few more shots. Another take on him here is utter hogwash.

5mn - you could argue some of the wins could be losses, but so could some of the losses have been wins.

This is the 3rd best start in the program's history I don't know what some people want.

Not sure if that was a typo and you meant "any other take" or if you are referring to a specific poster's take, but either way I think the discussion being had is a valid one. I certainly don't view it as people being impossible to please.

This has regressed to arguing about the argument, and I'm not too interested in continuing that. So I'll just reiterate that I don't recognize any chicken littles running around this thread, and leave it at that.

Stauber1
01-15-2014, 02:38 AM
I have a feeling this might be Minnesota's year. It's an ill feeling, but a feeling.

Yeah, you said the same thing last year. We're wise to your ways. :p