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Polls! Please List a Top 25 and NOT a Top 10

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  • Polls! Please List a Top 25 and NOT a Top 10

    For 25 years I have been chirping that the college men's and women's ice hockey polls should be listing a Top 25 and NOT 15 - (Men's USAToday), 20 (Men - USCHO) and 10 (Women - USCHO).

    Sad, when we have 16 teams in the men's ice hockey bracket and only 15 in the USA Today poll. Makes no sense!

    We need promote our sports and help all the universities who invest millions in their programs get some national ranking for their men's and women's programs

    You can do the research, but many sports list more than the what men's ice hockey and women's ice hockey list in their national poll.

    Women's Water Polo
    Men's Water Polo
    Field Hockey
    Men's Lacrosse
    Women's Lacrosse

    all list more than the 15/10 the men's and women's ice hockey list in their national polls.

    Hope those that make these decisions will promote men's and women's ice hockey even more than they have done in the past.

    Please, Please, Please list a Top 25 for men's and women's ice hockey in all your polls.

  • #2
    Re: Polls! Please List a Top 25 and NOT a Top 10

    So Men's Hockey D1 is 15-20 teams or about 25-30+ percent and Womens with 10 is about 30+ percent .....seems fair.

    Plus others that receive votes....

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Polls! Please List a Top 25 and NOT a Top 10

      Originally posted by FredDavenport View Post
      all list more than the 15/10 the men's and women's ice hockey list in their national polls.
      Yes, but what percentage of their total participants do they list?

      There are only 35 teams playing D-I women's hockey, including Sacred Heart. You want 25 of those 35 ranked??


      Powers &8^]

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Polls! Please List a Top 25 and NOT a Top 10

        Originally posted by LtPowers View Post
        Yes, but what percentage of their total participants do they list?

        There are only 35 teams playing D-I women's hockey, including Sacred Heart. You want 25 of those 35 ranked??


        Powers &8^]
        Sacred Heart and Holy Cross don't count, so that would be 25 of 33. Ten in the polls is just fine.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Polls! Please List a Top 25 and NOT a Top 10

          Originally posted by Hux View Post
          Sacred Heart and Holy Cross don't count, so that would be 25 of 33. Ten in the polls is just fine.
          If we're being technical, I didn't count Holy Cross. So 34.


          Powers &8^]

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Polls! Please List a Top 25 and NOT a Top 10

            I agree with Fred; a top 25 would generate more interest in the sport and garner more recognition for the rest of programs.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Polls! Please List a Top 25 and NOT a Top 10

              Originally posted by backcheck View Post
              I agree with Fred; a top 25 would generate more interest in the sport and garner more recognition for the rest of programs.
              In women's hockey, that means that a team with a 33% winning percentage might be ranked. Don't you think that seems weird?


              Powers &8^]

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Polls! Please List a Top 25 and NOT a Top 10

                Top 10 + teams getting a vote is enough
                25-33 team would just make the ones that don't make the list at all feel like crap and ranking (not the teams) below
                the teams getting votes in the poll is irrelevant

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Polls! Please List a Top 25 and NOT a Top 10

                  Preseason top 25 based on USCHO top 10 and coach's polls in the four leagues:

                  1. Minnesota
                  2. Boston College
                  3. Clarkson
                  4. Cornell
                  5. Boston University
                  6. Wisconsin
                  7. Mercyhurst
                  8. North Dakota
                  9. Harvard
                  10. Northeastern

                  also receiving votes
                  11. Minnesota-Duluth
                  12. Quinnipiac
                  13. Ohio State
                  14. Dartmouth

                  off into uncharted territory from here
                  15. Providence
                  16. Saint Lawrence
                  17. Minnesota State-Mankato
                  18. New Hampshire

                  starting to feel a little weird down here though
                  19. Syracuse
                  20. Princeton
                  21. Robert Morris
                  22. Bemidji State
                  23. Vermont
                  24. RPI
                  25. Colgate

                  Seems to me like it gets pretty squishy down there towards the end.

                  Now what?

                  26. Saint Cloud
                  27. Yale
                  28. Maine
                  29. Penn State
                  30. Brown
                  31. Lindenwood
                  32. RIT
                  33. UConn
                  34. Union

                  I think top 10 is plenty, maybe more than enough.
                  Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Polls! Please List a Top 25 and NOT a Top 10

                    Originally posted by ManBehindTheCurtain View Post
                    Preseason top 25 based on USCHO top 10 and coach's polls in the four leagues:

                    1. Minnesota
                    2. Boston College
                    3. Clarkson
                    4. Cornell
                    5. Boston University
                    6. Wisconsin
                    7. Mercyhurst
                    8. North Dakota
                    9. Harvard
                    10. Northeastern

                    also receiving votes
                    11. Minnesota-Duluth
                    12. Quinnipiac
                    13. Ohio State
                    14. Dartmouth

                    off into uncharted territory from here
                    15. Providence
                    16. Saint Lawrence
                    17. Minnesota State-Mankato
                    18. New Hampshire

                    starting to feel a little weird down here though
                    19. Syracuse
                    20. Princeton
                    21. Robert Morris
                    22. Bemidji State
                    23. Vermont
                    24. RPI
                    25. Colgate

                    Seems to me like it gets pretty squishy down there towards the end.

                    Now what?

                    26. Saint Cloud
                    27. Yale
                    28. Maine
                    29. Penn State
                    30. Brown
                    31. Lindenwood
                    32. RIT
                    33. UConn
                    34. Union

                    I think top 10 is plenty, maybe more than enough.
                    YES....what he said!!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Polls! Please List a Top 25 and NOT a Top 10

                      Originally posted by ManBehindTheCurtain View Post
                      Seems to me like it gets pretty squishy down there towards the end.
                      The problem isn't that it gets squishy towards the end; it's that it gets really squishy towards the middle. Like a lot of things in the universe, the distribution of team quality in a league approximately normal.* So while there is real separation between teams at the very top and the very bottom there really isn't between the teams in the middle. And frankly, "the middle" starts well before you get to the tenth team when there are only 33 to draw from. So aside from the other reasons presented as to why a Top 25 is pointless, throw in that the majority of the slots on any voter's ballot tell you more about the voter than they do about the teams because it's pretty much random guessing to rank them.

                      *Only approximately; the upper tail is longer than the lower tail due to teams drawing from the extreme upside of the pool of individual talent.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Polls! Please List a Top 25 and NOT a Top 10

                        Originally posted by myStuff View Post
                        YES....what he said!!
                        RIT should be much higher than 32, probably in the 19-22 range competitive with Syracuse and Robert Morris. They play Clarkson (#3) on Saturday.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Polls! Please List a Top 25 and NOT a Top 10

                          Originally posted by stanleycup View Post
                          RIT should be much higher than 32...
                          And that's the problem with asking people to rank 25 teams. Voters are probably willing to dedicate a set amount of time to the process, whether voting for 10 or 25. If it is 25, who has time every week to sit there and try to figure out whether RIT should be above or below a Princeton team that won't start playing for a few more weeks. For those asking for an expansion of the poll, if you want to know where your team stands, there are several computer models that will give you an approximation. Likely, that will be more accurate than some human compelled to rank 25 teams.
                          "... And lose, and start again at your beginnings
                          And never breathe a word about your loss;" -- Rudyard Kipling

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Polls! Please List a Top 25 and NOT a Top 10

                            The poll should remain a Top 10, IMHO.

                            Note that this somewhat against my selfish interest; according to MBTC's poll my team lands at #13. So we'd be included in a Top 15 but not a Top 10.

                            But objectively speaking, the Top 10 makes perfect sense for Women's D-1. That's the top quartile, rounded up. It's also the size of the NCAA Field, plus two bubble teams. In other words, at the current size, it's already generous -- but only slightly so. To me, that's exactly what we're looking for.

                            There is a basic philosophical question here. I believe what most of us are saying is that in order to be ranked, a team should achieve a certain level of excellence. Competent participation, while clearly something to be proud of, shouldn't be treated in the same way as excellence.

                            I also agree with the posters who have pointed out the difficulties of accurately ranking the teams in the middle of the pack.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Polls! Please List a Top 25 and NOT a Top 10

                              Top 10 is just fine, add in a few teams that receive votes and you get a good view of the top 12 or so.

                              Others have already explained valid reasons that I agree with. Bell Curve of 35 teams suggests top 10 reaches well into the median part within the first STD. Teams in that region of the curve are hard to rank in order.

                              Secondly top 10 plus a few plays well into the view of the list that has the best crack at the tourney at years end. Invariably the 7-10 placings change a lot over the year with many teams moving into and out of the top ten into/out of those spots.
                              Last edited by OnMAA; 09-27-2013, 01:52 AM.

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