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JCrawford
11-10-2013, 12:17 PM
I noticed them as well but just figured they forgot the game jerseys at home or had gotten blood on them or something. Doubtful the refs would have enforced that penalty...but then again maybe they would after last nights performance.

I'm sure Fat Mike came up with a "valid" excuse to give the refs regarding the non-regulation jerseys.

Ralph Baer
11-10-2013, 12:19 PM
back to the Cornell game for a moment. Surprised no one seems to have picked up on the non-regulation uniforms two Cornell players (De Swardt and one other one) wore for the first two periods at HFH Friday night. No numbers on their sleeves or on front. Should have been a bench minor on the Big Red. Schaefer had them come out with regulation sweaters for the 3rd, but we still had a free PP out there for the taking for two periods.

I mentioned at least twice to various people at the Cornell game that they might be illegal, but I wasn't sure if that rule was still on the books. Then again, the numbers that we had on the Black Tuesday jerseys should also be illegal. Seeing at least a half dozen people in the stands wearing those jerseys, they don't look quite as ridiculous up close as they did when pictures were originally posted.

turk181
11-10-2013, 12:22 PM
If I was being kind, I would have called the 3 major penalties borderline(at best). The Curadi hit was not up against the boards and not even close to the boards. The simple fact was a case of newton's Third Law. A really big boy hit a much smaller boy who was turned sideways but at the last second turned his back a bit more. Was it a hit from behind? Yes and probably a 2 minute penalty. But the smaller guy went flying as if shot out of a cannon and slid towards the boards. No injury/ no intent/ that was it. If the officials were THAT sure of the call-Luke would have been tossed along with the 5 minutes.
The other calls-Schroeder's hit looked clean to me and coach SA said as much in his interview. Unfortunately the officiating crews vary-some good some not so good. And this was a case that the not so good had a bad night. Thankfully calling us for 3 questionable majors, 41 minutes of penalties, while at the same time the opposition was whistled for 6 minutes(2 of which came at the very end as perhaps a make up call) did not affect the outcome. As SA indicated-we are were the second least penalized team in the nation-less than 8 minutes per game called in CLOSE hard fought games. Even the night before against Cornell, we were called for more penalties than they were and they are one of the highest penalized teams in the nations. Just a bit difficult to explain.
One of the very sad things is that history has taught us some officials make calls by reputation-and last night may have tarnished our reputation as a clean team that plays hard without taking penalties. We shall see next weekend in what promises to be a very physical two games. Just my 2I may be wrong but wasn't Luke's 5 min. penalty against #16 Derek Freeman 6'1" 200lbs.?

fishcore12
11-10-2013, 12:59 PM
I may be wrong but wasn't Luke's 5 min. penalty against #16 Derek Freeman 6'1" 200lbs.?

I believe it was against one of the Spink brothers. Or that might have been the kneeing major....

turk181
11-10-2013, 01:05 PM
I believe it was against one of the Spink brothers. Or that might have been the kneeing major....I thought that was Millers'.

JCrawford
11-10-2013, 01:09 PM
I may be wrong but wasn't Luke's 5 min. penalty against #16 Derek Freeman 6'1" 200lbs.?

That's correct. The kneeing major was for the hit on Spink #18.

DrDemento
11-10-2013, 01:30 PM
I may be wrong but wasn't Luke's 5 min. penalty against #16 Derek Freeman 6'1" 200lbs.?

Yes-but he fell and slid like a member of the Munchkins from the Wizard of Oz. I watched that play on RPI TV and in replay-Luke tapped him and he was more than 6 feet from any boards and he was not fully turned by any means. If a penalty was deserved(and I think even that was marginal) it was a 2 minute job. Luke got 5 because he is Luke and even if he taps a guy, you can hear the sound and that is often all a poor official needs. I just do not like earning a repuation of playing dirty when we don't deserve it. For many years going back to the 60's we had the reputation of playing Hatchet Hockey-and i am 100% sure our reputation preceds us in the minds of some of the refs.

DrDemento
11-10-2013, 01:34 PM
I believe it was against one of the Spink brothers. Or that might have been the kneeing major....

Fish: When RPI TV has the replay available-fast forward to that play and watch it over and over. You tell me if you see kneeing(or any knee to knee action). Maybe my eyes were failing last night but it appeared to me that Miller tried to avoid the direct contact and almost hurdled the player. Also, everyone please watch the Schroeder hit-maybe again I missed something, but sure looked like a clean hit(unless he went up to the head which i have to admit I did not look for and obviously did not see). I have seen Dumas several times before but last night he and the 3 Musketeers with him were far off base and reminded me too much of the Kotyra/Murphy fiasco out in Ithaca in the playoffs years ago.

fishcore12
11-10-2013, 02:12 PM
Fish: When RPI TV has the replay available-fast forward to that play and watch it over and over. You tell me if you see kneeing(or any knee to knee action). Maybe my eyes were failing last night but it appeared to me that Miller tried to avoid the direct contact and almost hurdled the player. Also, everyone please watch the Schroeder hit-maybe again I missed something, but sure looked like a clean hit(unless he went up to the head which i have to admit I did not look for and obviously did not see). I have seen Dumas several times before but last night he and the 3 Musketeers with him were far off base and reminded me too much of the Kotyra/Murphy fiasco out in Ithaca in the playoffs years ago.

Will take a look at both plays and believe me Doc, I was shaking my head over both majors given on those plays. IIRC, the Schroeder hit looked like the Colgate player was crouching down knowing the hit was coming. A loud noise was made and thats all it took last night for majors to be handed out it seemed.

DrDemento
11-10-2013, 02:36 PM
Will take a look at both plays and believe me Doc, I was shaking my head over both majors given on those plays. IIRC, the Schroeder hit looked like the Colgate player was crouching down knowing the hit was coming. A loud noise was made and thats all it took last night for majors to be handed out it seemed.

Back in the old days-I think I can understand a ref missing a call or two-you just cannot be everywhere at once and you cannot be expected to be in exactly the right position to clearly see everything. But we have progressed to having 4 officials crowding the ice. I am of the strong opinion that they should see so much more-hardly ever miss an offsides or icing, etc. Besides with instant replay available-they should be able to adequately call things that they had trouble with in the past. I would be all in favor of expanding the use of consulting the replay for some more questionable items.

hab
11-10-2013, 09:42 PM
Yes-but he fell and slid like a member of the Munchkins from the Wizard of Oz. I watched that play on RPI TV and in replay-Luke tapped him and he was more than 6 feet from any boards and he was not fully turned by any means. If a penalty was deserved(and I think even that was marginal) it was a 2 minute job. Luke got 5 because he is Luke and even if he taps a guy, you can hear the sound and that is often all a poor official needs. I just do not like earning a repuation of playing dirty when we don't deserve it. For many years going back to the 60's we had the reputation of playing Hatchet Hockey-and i am 100% sure our reputation preceds us in the minds of some of the refs.

You have mentioned several times that the Colgate player was several feet from the boards, and he was. However, that is what makes a hit like this more dangerous, not less. If a player is up against the boards he is seldom injured with a hit, even from behind. In fact, the penalty for "boarding" is handed out (often a 5 minute major) when the player is several feet from the boards because of the risk that he will go head first, unprotected, into the boards. I agree that this call was marginal, but only because it was questionable whether there was enough force there to justify it, not because the player was a few feet away from the boards. In my experience it seems that most refs call these, even if maybe they shouldn't, and of the 3 majors that RPI got this was one that was not a big surprise to me.

Ralph Baer
11-11-2013, 01:28 AM
back to the Cornell game for a moment. Surprised no one seems to have picked up on the non-regulation uniforms two Cornell players (De Swardt and one other one) wore for the first two periods at HFH Friday night. No numbers on their sleeves or on front. Should have been a bench minor on the Big Red. Schaefer had them come out with regulation sweaters for the 3rd, but we still had a free PP out there for the taking for two periods.

Thanks to a post on eLynah:

NCAA Ice Hockey 2012-2013 and 2013-2014 Rules and Interpretations
Rule 9 - Uniforms
9.1 Jerseys - Each player and each goalkeeper listed in the lineup of each team
shall wear an individual identifying number at least 10 inches high on the
back of the jersey and at least 4 inches high on the front or on both sleeves.
The visiting team shall wear dark-colored jerseys and stockings; the home
team shall wear light-colored jerseys and stockings. All players of each
team shall dress uniformly in that day’s game jersey.

This also makes our Black Tuesday (Friday, ...) and BRF jerseys illegal, but we probably get agreement. Cornell might have also gotten our agreement for these.

DrDemento
11-11-2013, 06:06 AM
You have mentioned several times that the Colgate player was several feet from the boards, and he was. However, that is what makes a hit like this more dangerous, not less. If a player is up against the boards he is seldom injured with a hit, even from behind. In fact, the penalty for "boarding" is handed out (often a 5 minute major) when the player is several feet from the boards because of the risk that he will go head first, unprotected, into the boards. I agree that this call was marginal, but only because it was questionable whether there was enough force there to justify it, not because the player was a few feet away from the boards. In my experience it seems that most refs call these, even if maybe they shouldn't, and of the 3 majors that RPI got this was one that was not a big surprise to me.


My experience has taught me a bit differently. It has always appeared to me that a player close to or next to the boards is at far more risk in a hit from behind simply because of the fact that the further away fro the boards(and the ability to slide a bit) gives him a fractional amount of extra time to protect against slamming into the glass/wood/whatever. From the sports injuries that I have seen and treated in hockey-the most severe-bar none-are those hits form behind or those called boarding that occur close to the boards and glass. The mid ice collisions that are most damaging are the knee to knee and of course any head shots(elbow or shoulder) that can occur anywhere on the ice. In fact-this may well be the reason they instituted the boarding call major in the first place(and even the major for hitting from behind). In clearing out in front of the net, defensemen have hit from behind since the invention of the sport-and it is almost always called cross checking-or interference-or something else. Rarely do you get the hit from behind call there or anywhere in center ice. It is a call meant to prevent injury from a player being blind sided and thrust into the boards. I guess we will just have to be in disagreement on this one:) but it appears neither of us felt this call was justified for one reason or another.

DrDemento
11-11-2013, 06:10 AM
With tonight's win, RPI is now 19th in RatingsPI and PWR. A lot of the team's drop [from 11th prior to quality wins bonus] can be attributed to the fact that they haven't beat any quality opponents. The only quality opponent they've had this year thus far is Boston College, and they were subsequently blown out of that game.

FD-Might need your help on this one. This early in the season, every game seems to count so much in ratings. I tried to figure this one out-if RPI did not have that 2 minute collapse at the end of the Cornell game-how much does it affect our ranking in Ratings percentage Index? Best i could do is figuring it raises us 4-5 positions. I think I get us as high as 8th if we hold onto the win-and as low as 12-13 with the tie.

FlagDUDE08
11-11-2013, 07:53 AM
FD-Might need your help on this one. This early in the season, every game seems to count so much in ratings. I tried to figure this one out-if RPI did not have that 2 minute collapse at the end of the Cornell game-how much does it affect our ranking in Ratings percentage Index? Best i could do is figuring it raises us 4-5 positions. I think I get us as high as 8th if we hold onto the win-and as low as 12-13 with the tie.

If you change RPI/Cornell from Draw to RPI, not counting yesterday's games, RPI would be 14th in PairWise, and therefore in the tournament. They would be 9th prior to the Quality Wins Bonus.

EDIT: Counting yesterday's games, they would be 17th in PWR, and therefore out of the tournament.

FlagDUDE08
11-11-2013, 08:53 AM
Despite BC's shellacking of Army yesterday, Ryan Haggerty is still the nation's top goal scorer with 13, and also tops Goals per Game. Cody Wydo of Robert Morris and Stephan Vigier of NMU are ties for second with 10. Haggerty also is tied for the top on power play goals with Vigier of NMU with 6. Six-way tie for shorties at 2, but Guy LeBœuf is one of those (incidentally, Kellen Jones of Quinnipiac is another). Currently, the team averages 4.1 GF/g and 2.2 GA/g.

ibanezist00
11-11-2013, 09:38 AM
My quick two cents.

I wonder how much a certain pair of twins on the Colgate team paid the refs to put RPI down one man for the equivalent of an entire period.

Amazingly, we still pulled off a 6-2 victory, though there were at least two or three chances that Colgate should have put in the net. I'm not sure why, for the first Colgate goal and most of the game after that, there was absolutely no defense on the left wing from RPI.

I expected that kind of game/play from Cornell, but not Colgate.

I'm getting really, really sick of the inconsistent reffing quality in the ECAC, plain and simple.

ibanezist00
11-11-2013, 09:39 AM
back to the Cornell game for a moment. Surprised no one seems to have picked up on the non-regulation uniforms two Cornell players (De Swardt and one other one) wore for the first two periods at HFH Friday night. No numbers on their sleeves or on front. Should have been a bench minor on the Big Red. Schaefer had them come out with regulation sweaters for the 3rd, but we still had a free PP out there for the taking for two periods.

I caught on to that, and just assumed the trust fund money was gone.

ibanezist00
11-11-2013, 09:42 AM
I got into a discussion with some of my hockey friends about ducking checks-- a lot of us thought it was a callable penalty by itself (it isn't apparently), but we weren't sure if there was a different penalty it could be called for. Surely ducking a check (as multiple Colgate players did tonight) is an extremely dangerous move for both the check receiver and especially the person throwing the check. The Miller kneeing penalty and game misconduct looked to me like it was the result of a Colgate player dodging a check by Miller. MAYBE two minutes for incidental contact, but definitely not the 5 and a game that was issued, and a lot of us felt that Colgate should have been given the penalty instead for the dangerous play.

To me, it just looked like two guys trying to avoid contact altogether that accidentally got caught up and did a spin-o-rama as a result. Agreed, maybe two minutes (even that is questionable), but a freaking game misconduct?

JCrawford
11-11-2013, 09:46 AM
If you change RPI/Cornell from Draw to RPI, not counting yesterday's games, RPI would be 14th in PairWise, and therefore in the tournament. They would be 9th prior to the Quality Wins Bonus.

EDIT: Counting yesterday's games, they would be 17th in PWR, and therefore out of the tournament.

Where are you coming up with these numbers? Depending on where I look (collegehockeynews.com / rpihockey.net) RPI is currently either 12th or 13th in PWR after yesterday's games. Even the RPI table on this site (http://www.uscho.com/rankings/rpi/d-i-men/) has Rensselaer at 12th in RPI.