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purpleinnebraska
08-19-2013, 11:00 AM
You're not alone. I was shocked to see that people were supportive. Sure it was on a Facebook fan page but that still counts.

Maybe we don't understand the shootout support because we're just getting old. Sure, the shootout hasn't been around that long compared to some of our ages, but if you're a kid just entering college, the NHL has been using a shootout for half your life, the USHL for longer than that. My daughter grew up watching USHL and NHL games, and saw her first college tie last year during her freshman year. I thought it was a great game, but as we were leaving, she said, "Well, that was unsatisfying." I still don't like it, but the longer it stays around at other levels, the more acceptance there will be. I think it's an inevitability in the college game within 10 years.

Patman
08-19-2013, 11:41 AM
Maybe we don't understand the shootout support because we're just getting old. Sure, the shootout hasn't been around that long compared to some of our ages, but if you're a kid just entering college, the NHL has been using a shootout for half your life, the USHL for longer than that. My daughter grew up watching USHL and NHL games, and saw her first college tie last year during her freshman year. I thought it was a great game, but as we were leaving, she said, "Well, that was unsatisfying." I still don't like it, but the longer it stays around at other levels, the more acceptance there will be. I think it's an inevitability in the college game within 10 years.

I think MLS shows shoot outs aren't inevitable...

IMO, its always been about trying to appeal to a segment that can't accept ties and need finality. However you end up doing it in a way that doesn't represent the game itself. Further that you need to reach to a gimmick sort of implies that you need ties to get to the gimmick.

College football went nearly 120 years with ties before it suddenly became un-American... Which is quite silly for what evolved in about 60 years to a fully American sport.

Its always been an attempt to appeal to a segment who weren't going to like the sport in the first place.

Osorojo
08-19-2013, 01:35 PM
The NHL has shootouts. The NHL's overall profitability and attendance has grown despite or perhaps because of shootouts. These are facts, not trolling. It may be that hockey and financial professionals of the NCHC have noticed the NHL's apparent success with the shootout rules and have decided to emulate NHL policy. That's reasonable speculation, not trolling. It may be that professional and NCHC hockey league administrators' analysis of the benefits of shootouts is superior to the opinions of random hockey fans. That's reasonable speculation, although some may take offense.

giwan
08-19-2013, 01:42 PM
The NHL has shootouts. The NHL's overall profitability and attendance has grown despite or perhaps because of shootouts. These are facts, not trolling. It may be that hockey and financial professionals of the NCHC have noticed the NHL's apparent success with the shootout rules and have decided to emulate NHL policy. That's reasonable speculation, not trolling. It may be that professional and NCHC hockey league administrators' analysis of the benefits of shootouts is superior to the opinions of random hockey fans. That's reasonable speculation, although some may take offense.

How do you correlate shoot shootouts to profitability and attendance? Think of it this way, shootouts I believe are fairly rare but they would have such a large succes? NFL does not offer a shootout, they allow a tie. Popular soccer does not offer a shootout unless it is a game meant to move forward.

Osorojo
08-19-2013, 02:33 PM
How do you correlate shoot shootouts to profitability and attendance? Think of it this way, shootouts I believe are fairly rare but they would have such a large succes? NFL does not offer a shootout, they allow a tie. Popular soccer does not offer a shootout unless it is a game meant to move forward.

I was responding to previous posts in this thread which predicted shootouts would decrease attendance/revenue at NCHC games, and a post which suggested a walkout/boycott of NCHC playoff games. The NHL has more fans and more rabid fans than the NCHC is likely to have and the NHL's attendance and marketing success appears undiminished by playoff games.

COHockey
08-19-2013, 04:05 PM
If shootouts are meant to get fans into the game, then let me propose putting the shootout before each game. Have a shootout before each and every game. Since the shootout is so popular, it will put butts in the seats before face off. Furthermore, in OT, you know the team that lost the shootout will be playing their hearts out.

Personally I hate the shootout, and I have already indicated that I will leave. I did that in every NHL game I had been to that ended in a tie.

ericredaxe
08-19-2013, 06:32 PM
All the talk about new fans not accepting ties / trying to appeal to fans who don't like the game / get fans to the game etc etc is reading too much into it. I do think that a game ending in a tie can be an enjoyable / exciting game, but seeing a shootout is just a little bit more icing on the otherwise good cake.

I think it's simple... shootouts are fun to watch. Maybe you see a great forward make a nifty move and top shelf a sweet goal, or maybe you get to see a goalie make an unbelievable sprawling save. I would think most people can agree on that regardless of how you feel about ties etc.

So... if you can add a even a little bit more fun and excitement to an otherwise good product why not do it?

camilo
08-19-2013, 07:20 PM
Maybe we don't understand the shootout support because we're just getting old. Sure, the shootout hasn't been around that long compared to some of our ages, but if you're a kid just entering college, the NHL has been using a shootout for half your life, the USHL for longer than that. My daughter grew up watching USHL and NHL games, and saw her first college tie last year during her freshman year. I thought it was a great game, but as we were leaving, she said, "Well, that was unsatisfying." I still don't like it, but the longer it stays around at other levels, the more acceptance there will be. I think it's an inevitability in the college game within 10 years.

It could be age, I guess. But I'm pushing 60. I've actually played the sport since I was about 8, through adult leagues into my 40s. I have been a fan for all that time, high school, college and pro. I watch about 10-15 live div. I games a year, a few on TV and a few pro games on TV each year. If I'm in a pro hockey city, I take every opportunity to go to a game. If I'm in another Div I hockey town, I take every opportunity to watch the game, regardless of if my team is in it.

I kind of like the shootout for college games. It's fun to watch. Sure it's nothing but a skills competition, but I like watching what the boys can do. I think it's totally legitimate and fun in the way they do it in college hockey - the "3 - 2 - 1" points system. Not for a winner take all deal though.

In my opinion, it does in fact provide some meaningful separation between the teams. Mostly in the goaltender area - a hot goalie can win the shootout, just like a hot goalie can steal a game itself or at least keep a lesser team in striking distance.

Of course, I think the best way to settle games in an important context (playoffs, for instance) is to play overtimes until a team scores. But that's not practical for a regular season game.

And as far as motivation goes - I simply don't buy the idea that it de-motivates players or their coaches to win in regulation or OT. That's just silly. I certainly have never, ever seen any evidence in games I've watched.

Look at the standings in any of the Div I leagues to see how extremely tight they are in general. A point or two separates home ice in the playoffs from traveling. A tiny handful of points, just a few, can mean the difference between getting a first round bye if that's a factor. Certainly just a very few points can make the difference between a favorable seed in the tourney vs. an unfavorable one. The good teams - good motivated players and good coaches - fight as hard as they can for every single point, and that means 3 vs. 2 vs. 1.

I just don't buy the idea that a team won't work as hard as they can to get 3 points for a clear victory vs. the chance getting at most 2 for a tie/shoot out win, or worse yet, coming home with just one for a tie and shoot out loss. It's as ridiculous as thinking that a team doesn't want to win two points for a victory and is willing to settle for a single point tie.

The real interesting question is - how the 3 game points system seeds teams in a league vs. what their standings would have been if they quit after the tie and just awarded 2 points per game.

Anyway, just an old guy's view in favor of shootouts. They're fun, do no harm and actually provide a meaningful difference between the two teams that have played to a tie after 65 minutes.

Pink Pony
08-20-2013, 06:06 AM
Ties Are like kissing your sister.

LtPowers
08-20-2013, 08:04 AM
A tiny handful of points, just a few, can mean the difference between getting a first round bye if that's a factor.

Yes, so why put those points in the hands of a one-on-one skills competition, instead of the team-oriented game we all love to watch?


Powers &8^]

Patman
08-20-2013, 09:24 AM
Yes, so why put those points in the hands of a one-on-one skills competition, instead of the team-oriented game we all love to watch?


Powers &8^]

I'd honestly prefer going 3v3 before going to the shoot out

ExileOnDaytonStreet
08-20-2013, 10:09 AM
Ties Are like kissing your sister.That's not true. Ties are not very popular in the south.

Seriously though, this is usually a talking point for people who would rather lose than tie. Regardless of whether that's what you're saying here, I'll go on record saying that people who prefer to lose than tie are complete morons.

camilo
08-20-2013, 11:25 AM
Yes, so why put those points in the hands of a one-on-one skills competition, instead of the team-oriented game we all love to watch?


Powers &8^]

Like I said in the post you are referring to - my opinion is that they do provide a way to legitimately separate two otherwise tied teams. That plus the fact that they're fun to watch, makes them a reasonable feature of a regular season game. I don't disagree with your statement about the team-oriented game, but again, as I said in that same post, going beyond one overtime is not reasonable for a regular season game. If you don't think people like the shootout (which I disagree with), how do you think they'd like staying there for lengthy OT's for a regular season game. I believe far fewer people would like that than like the shootouts (and I believe most fans - yes, "real", long term fans like me - like shootouts for regular season games)

Osorojo
08-20-2013, 11:54 AM
I'm with camilo. I attended college hockey games before the ECAC was founded and my take is that fans attend games to see who wins, and players compete to see who wins. Not who ties.

scsutommyboy
08-20-2013, 11:59 AM
I'm with camilo. I attended college hockey games before the ECAC was founded and my take is that fans attend games to see who wins, and players compete to see who wins. Not who ties.

College kids play twice a week. Bring back the 15 minute OT like they use to have and 90%+ of the ties will go away.

Tipsy McStagger
08-20-2013, 12:20 PM
I think it's simple... shootouts are fun to watch. Maybe you see a great forward make a nifty move and top shelf a sweet goal, or maybe you get to see a goalie make an unbelievable sprawling save. I would think most people can agree on that regardless of how you feel about ties etc.

They are fun to watch....according to you. The only reason I have ever watched a shootout in the NHL was because it had an effect on my favorite team's place in the standings. I am not impressed by nifty moves performed against no defense. Just like I wouldn't be impressed by NBA players making countless 3's or Free throws if the NBA decided that overtime was just too much to bother with and decided to do what hockey seems to be doing more and more. Using a skills competition to decide the result of a game.

ericredaxe
08-20-2013, 12:35 PM
They are fun to watch....according to you. The only reason I have ever watched a shootout in the NHL was because it had an effect on my favorite team's place in the standings. I am not impressed by nifty moves performed against no defense. Just like I wouldn't be impressed by NBA players making countless 3's or Free throws if the NBA decided that overtime was just too much to bother with and decided to do what hockey seems to be doing more and more. Using a skills competition to decide the result of a game.

Thats your opinion and its fine. I'd guess more people find them enjoyable / exciting to watch.... certainly most people I know think the NHL shootout is fun and based on what I see at the arenas and the fans staying to watch, I think it is safe to say that is the majority opinion.

Free throws in basketball is not a good comparison to the shooter vs goalie situation in a hockey shootout.

4four4
08-20-2013, 12:44 PM
In all my research the same NHL playoff teams make the playoffs regardless winning or losing a shoot out.

ExileOnDaytonStreet
08-20-2013, 01:08 PM
I'm with camilo. I attended college hockey games before the ECAC was founded and my take is that fans attend games to see who wins, and players compete to see who wins. Not who ties.

They also don't want to see their team lose. Should we get rid of losses while we're at it?

WiscDC
08-20-2013, 01:25 PM
They also don't want to see their team lose. Should we get rid of losses while we're at it?

I couldn't agree more. I'm not as opposed to shootouts as many others are, especially in the NCAA context ("tie and shootout win/loss" is different from "regulation or overtime win/loss"), and I sure as heck won't walk out before the shootout is over. What bugs me is the way fans tend to throw around those idealistic statements about winning. "We want to see wins!" If neither team can best the other, does that mean the whole game is ruined? No, because both teams were competing to win, and fans got to see it.