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O'Bannon Case and its ripple effect on college hockey

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  • #61
    Re: O'Bannon Case and its ripple effect on college hockey

    Originally posted by mnstate0fhockey View Post
    The real end game here if O'Bannon wins (and he won't) is that those non-revenue sports that many kids get to play cost free that enrich their college experience will be dropped or moved to club level where they will become pay-to- play and everyone's tuition will likely go up.
    Or maybe instead of coaches and ADs pulling in millions of dollars, they make a little less and some of that money gets redirected to the athletes. Or maybe the coaches pay the athletes directly. Or maybe they let the players do endorsements or do sponsorships or they let them sell their autographs. There are tons of places the money could come from other than non-revenue sports.

    And last I checked, the fact that some tennis or soccer players won't be enriched is about the worst argument you could have come up with. We are talking about adults here. If you love your sport so much, there are places in almost every town to do them.
    Originally posted by SJHovey
    Pretty sure this post, made on January 3, 2016, when UNO was 14-3-1 and #2 in the pairwise, will go down in USCHO lore as The Curse of Tipsy McStagger.
    Originally posted by Brenthoven
    We mourn for days after a loss, puff out our chests for a week or more after we win. We brave the cold for tailgates, our friends know not to ask about the game after a tough loss, we laugh, we cry, we BLEED hockey, specifically the maroon'n'gold. Many of us have a tattoo waiting in the wings, WHEN (not IF) the Gophers are champions again.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Tipsy McStagger View Post
      So Ed O'Bannon, Bill Russell, etc. are being greedy for suing the NCAA for a piece of the profits that are gained by selling their name and likeness years after they were under NCAA control? Didn't the NCAA exist before video games? Before games were televised? Did they have scholarships before the NCAA started selling themselves to the highest bidder?

      The NCAA has become a business. If they can't figure out a way to pay the employees or at the minimum get rid of all the ridiculous restrictions placed on the "student-athletes", then maybe they deserve to fold.
      The Big Ten has been rumored to leave the NCAA. If they do please pass the popcorn.
      Slap Shot - 444 might want to consider a restraining order.
      dggoddard - Minnesota is THE ELITE Program in all of college hockey.
      wasmania - you have to be the very best to get ice time with the great gophers!

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Tipsy McStagger View Post
        I already addressed that point.
        No, that doesn't address the point. There wasn't as much money coming in decades past, but the costs weren't what they are today.
        @MNState0fHockey on Twitter
        On the Web at www.mnhockeycentral.com
        High School, Gophers, and Wild News on Facebook at Minnesota Hockey Central

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Tipsy McStagger View Post
          Or maybe instead of coaches and ADs pulling in millions of dollars, they make a little less and some of that money gets redirected to the athletes. Or maybe the coaches pay the athletes directly. Or maybe they let the players do endorsements or do sponsorships or they let them sell their autographs. There are tons of places the money could come from other than non-revenue sports.

          And last I checked, the fact that some tennis or soccer players won't be enriched is about the worst argument you could have come up with. We are talking about adults here. If you love your sport so much, there are places in almost every town to do them.
          I don't think they'll have to do any of that because I don't think O'Bannon will win the suit. They knew coming in they'll get a free education, and nothing more. No one forced them to enter into that contract.

          On top of a free education, they got the enrichment from playing college athletics and the university used the money they made to fund the non-revenue sports that give other student athletes the same enrichment. Oh, and they also received free exposure to the pro leagues for their sport.
          @MNState0fHockey on Twitter
          On the Web at www.mnhockeycentral.com
          High School, Gophers, and Wild News on Facebook at Minnesota Hockey Central

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Tipsy McStagger View Post
            And last I checked, the fact that some tennis or soccer players won't be enriched is about the worst argument you could have come up with. We are talking about adults here. If you love your sport so much, there are places in almost every town to do them.
            So, collegiate tennis and soccer players should play in community adult leagues so that a relatively few basketball and football players can get played to get college athletics?? You're making my point for me.
            @MNState0fHockey on Twitter
            On the Web at www.mnhockeycentral.com
            High School, Gophers, and Wild News on Facebook at Minnesota Hockey Central

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            • #66
              Re: O'Bannon Case and its ripple effect on college hockey

              Originally posted by mnstate0fhockey View Post
              I don't think they'll have to do any of that because I don't think O'Bannon will win the suit. They knew coming in they'll get a free education, and nothing more. No one forced them to enter into that contract.
              If United, American, and Delta collude to fix prices and you buy a ticket at the inflated price, does that absolve them of wrongdoing, since you (and all their other customers) willingly participated in the transaction? That's the issue here: the schools got together and agreed to use the same fixed contract terms when signing athletes rather than allowing each school to negotiate independently.
              If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

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              • #67
                Re: O'Bannon Case and its ripple effect on college hockey

                Who could have imagined MJH and DIH coming ever closer? Anyone who used his head for something besides an amplifier.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by mnstate0fhockey View Post
                  I don't think they'll have to do any of that because I don't think O'Bannon will win the suit. They knew coming in they'll get a free education, and nothing more. No one forced them to enter into that contract.

                  On top of a free education, they got the enrichment from playing college athletics and the university used the money they made to fund the non-revenue sports that give other student athletes the same enrichment. Oh, and they also received free exposure to the pro leagues for their sport.
                  Free exposure? Pro scouts are now scouting virtually every league. They don't leave many stones unturned. This isn't Mayberry anymore.
                  Slap Shot - 444 might want to consider a restraining order.
                  dggoddard - Minnesota is THE ELITE Program in all of college hockey.
                  wasmania - you have to be the very best to get ice time with the great gophers!

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by 4four4 View Post
                    Free exposure? Pro scouts are now scouting virtually every league. They don't leave many stones unturned. This isn't Mayberry anymore.
                    True, but that doesn't mean the continued exposure in a league with the country/world's best isn't beneficial to these players. You can also throw in access to world class coaching and training facilities. Or should the players shoulder no burden for paying for those resources, just collect on revenues earned?

                    That's my whole problem with this. These players want to collect on any revenue earned, but want no responsibility for the cost and risk it takes to generate that revenue. If the program makes money off me, then pay me, but if the program loses money, it's the school's problem.
                    Last edited by mnstate0fhockey; 06-26-2013, 08:52 AM.
                    @MNState0fHockey on Twitter
                    On the Web at www.mnhockeycentral.com
                    High School, Gophers, and Wild News on Facebook at Minnesota Hockey Central

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                    • #70
                      Re: O'Bannon Case and its ripple effect on college hockey

                      Originally posted by Tipsy McStagger View Post
                      Agreed, but O'Bannon says he doesn't care about the money.

                      “It’s not about the money,” he said. “You can’t just throw some dollars in my face and watch me go away. I want systemic change. That’s what we’re here for.”

                      “Fair would be getting more than zero,” Flournoy said he responded. “I can’t speak for everybody, but I don’t need to get anything for my likeness. I would like them to get my approval before they use it. After all, it is me. Texas Western. Forty-four. That’s me.”
                      http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/20/sp...ticipants.html
                      I'll be honest I haven't really followed the case that closely, and I certainly don't know any of the parties involved personally.

                      But I can tell you from personal experience, when people tell you a lawsuit is not about the money, it's always about the money.
                      That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
                        I'll be honest I haven't really followed the case that closely, and I certainly don't know any of the parties involved personally.

                        But I can tell you from personal experience, when people tell you a lawsuit is not about the money, it's always about the money.
                        If this were to go into a general found for say sport coat money I wouldn't mind... It's just the potential to warp everything I take issue with
                        BS UML '04, PhD UConn '09

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                        • #72
                          Re: O'Bannon Case and its ripple effect on college hockey

                          Originally posted by mnstate0fhockey View Post
                          True, but that doesn't mean the continued exposure in a league with the country/world's best isn't beneficial to these players. You can also throw in access to world class coaching and training facilities. Or should the players shoulder no burden for paying for those resources, just collect on revenues earned?

                          That's my whole problem with this. These players want to collect on any revenue earned, but want no responsibility for the cost and risk it takes to generate that revenue. If the program makes money off me, then pay me, but if the program loses money, it's the school's problem.
                          How do you come up with this stuff? Where do you think the training facilities came from? The money generated by the athletes that came before. Where do you think the ungodly sums of money came from to pay the coaches? The money generated by the athletes that came before.

                          And risk? Don't make me laugh. These schools get government money for almost every single facility they build. The NCAA is a business. Do Target employees have to pay in if the company loses money?

                          Lets say the school has to pay zero to the athletes. The NCAA just eliminates the amateur clause and lets the athletes make money from sponsorships, endorsements or an agent advances them money against future earnings. Are you opposed to that?
                          Originally posted by SJHovey
                          Pretty sure this post, made on January 3, 2016, when UNO was 14-3-1 and #2 in the pairwise, will go down in USCHO lore as The Curse of Tipsy McStagger.
                          Originally posted by Brenthoven
                          We mourn for days after a loss, puff out our chests for a week or more after we win. We brave the cold for tailgates, our friends know not to ask about the game after a tough loss, we laugh, we cry, we BLEED hockey, specifically the maroon'n'gold. Many of us have a tattoo waiting in the wings, WHEN (not IF) the Gophers are champions again.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Tipsy McStagger View Post
                            How do you come up with this stuff? Where do you think the training facilities came from? The money generated by the athletes that came before. Where do you think the ungodly sums of money came from to pay the coaches? The money generated by the athletes that came before.

                            And risk? Don't make me laugh. These schools get government money for almost every single facility they build. The NCAA is a business. Do Target employees have to pay in if the company loses money?

                            Lets say the school has to pay zero to the athletes. The NCAA just eliminates the amateur clause and lets the athletes make money from sponsorships, endorsements or an agent advances them money against future earnings. Are you opposed to that?
                            So, training facilities for non-revenue sports come from the revenue generated by those sports?

                            I think you open up a big can of worms by eliminating the amateur status, but that is more digestible to me than student athletes getting paid and not assuming any responsibility for costs and risk required to earn the revenue.
                            Last edited by mnstate0fhockey; 06-26-2013, 10:56 AM.
                            @MNState0fHockey on Twitter
                            On the Web at www.mnhockeycentral.com
                            High School, Gophers, and Wild News on Facebook at Minnesota Hockey Central

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                            • #74
                              Re: O'Bannon Case and its ripple effect on college hockey

                              Originally posted by bothman View Post
                              The single best article I have read on the notion of paying college athletes is below. It's a very compelling article and one I would encourage all fans of college sports to read:

                              http://m.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar...sports/308643/
                              This was a great read!!!

                              I'm very interested in reading more about the Joseph Agnew suit/results

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                              • #75
                                Re: O'Bannon Case and its ripple effect on college hockey

                                Originally posted by mnstate0fhockey View Post
                                So, training facilities from non-revenue sports come from the revenue generated by those sports?
                                Show me a college training facility for soccer, tennis, swimming or another non-revenue sport that is "world class" or that cost a lot of money.
                                Originally posted by SJHovey
                                Pretty sure this post, made on January 3, 2016, when UNO was 14-3-1 and #2 in the pairwise, will go down in USCHO lore as The Curse of Tipsy McStagger.
                                Originally posted by Brenthoven
                                We mourn for days after a loss, puff out our chests for a week or more after we win. We brave the cold for tailgates, our friends know not to ask about the game after a tough loss, we laugh, we cry, we BLEED hockey, specifically the maroon'n'gold. Many of us have a tattoo waiting in the wings, WHEN (not IF) the Gophers are champions again.

                                Comment

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