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Go Irish
05-26-2013, 03:03 PM
I was once a season ticket holder for the Dartmouth Big Green. And then something very strange happened. 1980. After going to the Frozen 4 two years straight, the Big Green failed to have a winning season for the next 20 years. In 1990-91 they only had one victory. For many years the admissions department wouldn't let the team recruit because of academic reasons only to see two very talented players go to Yale and Brown. But now things are different. Instead of being abysmal year after year, the team has now become the kings of mediocre. Since 1980 every team in the ECAC has been in the national tournament, except Dartmouth. This past season Brown played for the ECAC championship. Dartmouth beat them three times during the regular season. The ECAC champion Union was beaten and tied by Dartmouth during the regular season. Dartmouth even beat Yale the national champion early in the season. So someone please tell me why this team continues to flounder year after year?

J.D.
05-26-2013, 03:18 PM
I don't think flounder is the right word. Your kings of mediocre is pretty accurate though. Seems like they are always decent, never terrible. Just can't get over that hump and into the tourney.

hockeyplayer1015
05-27-2013, 02:22 AM
Obviously, it is because the nachos at Thompson, frankly, are mediocre.

The Rube
05-27-2013, 09:39 AM
Because the players they have are not good.

Next?

Go Irish
05-27-2013, 10:06 AM
Oh I almost forgot. UNH was in the NCAA tournament and they beat them as well. I might almost agree with the nachos too.

MinnesotaNorthStar
05-27-2013, 02:01 PM
Obviously, it is because the nachos at Thompson, frankly, are mediocre.Can't be it. Tech has the best nachos in the WCHA and they haven't made the national tournament in forever...

Snively65
05-28-2013, 07:12 AM
Oh I almost forgot. UNH was in the NCAA tournament and they beat them as well. I might almost agree with the nachos too.

Yes, thanks for the reminder. That game was tough for me and my brother to watch. I think that UNH never really recovered from that loss last season. That game was also the beginning of Dartmouth's slide, I think, but the Green did not have the OOC and UML wins to fall back on as did UNH.

The fish chowdah at Thompson was lukewarm.

Go Irish
05-28-2013, 02:45 PM
Can't be it. Tech has the best nachos in the WCHA and they haven't made the national tournament in forever...

Your point is well taken sir. It must be the lukewarm fish chowdah...................

Larriecat
05-28-2013, 07:07 PM
Because the players they have are not good.

Next?

Don't blame it on the kids. Dartmouth has consistently had above average players in the ECAC for many years. Looking from the outside, the problem is obvious.

Bullmoose
05-29-2013, 01:44 AM
Yes, thanks for the reminder. That game was tough for me and my brother to watch. I think that UNH never really recovered from that loss last season. That game was also the beginning of Dartmouth's slide, I think, but the Green did not have the OOC and UML wins to fall back on as did UNH.

I was at that game, and to me, as a Dartmouth alum, it was awesome. :) Next game (loss against a pretty bad UMass team) was the beginning of the slide.

Re: original poster's thoughts. I've been going to games since I showed up to campus as a freshman. That was the beginning of the Gaudet's tenure as the head coach. I recall UVM fans taking over Thompson early in my time there. However, it gradually filled up with Dartmouth fans as teams got better in the early 2000s. This (http://www.uscho.com/box/mens-hockey/2002/11/26/boston-college-vs-dartmouth/) was the first sell-out that I witnessed and it was absolutely awesome -- there was a feeling that this program is arriving as a contender on the national stage. But, as J. D. said, they haven't gotten over that hump. They've gotten as close as they can get (16th in PWR three times in the last 10 years) without crossing that threshold into the NCAAs.

Personally, I think the next demon that they have to overcome is winning an ECAC semifinal game (haven't done that since 1980, in the Boston Garden against Clarkson)...

Priceless
05-29-2013, 09:47 AM
Because the players they have are not good.

Next?

According the College Hockey Inc the Dartmouth Big Green had 8 players in the NHL this season, the same as Maine, St Cloud, CC and Miami. More than UHN, Notre Dame or Duluth. Seems like they've had some decent players.

Go Irish
05-29-2013, 02:14 PM
Larriecat, your post has me curious. I know Dartmouth has had some excellent players over many years so looking from the outside, what is the problem? Admissions? the NHL? Fan support?

rightwing
06-02-2013, 06:06 PM
Has to be coaching. Not that Gaudet isnt good- but maybe not exceptional. I think we saw what Gadowsky did at Princeton after so many bad years. Yes he recruited better, but he really is a great coach.
I think Harvard with Donato is even a more striking version of the phenomenon at Dartmouth

Snively65
06-02-2013, 09:56 PM
According the College Hockey Inc the Dartmouth Big Green had 8 players in the NHL this season, the same as Maine, St Cloud, CC and Miami. More than UHN, Notre Dame or Duluth. Seems like they've had some decent players.

Thanks for pointing out how few UNH players get to the NHL, which is what I have used to defend Umile as a coach in another thread. But, I did not realize that Dartmouth and St Cloud had so many more players in he NHL.

kdiff77
06-02-2013, 10:52 PM
The fish chowdah at Thompson was lukewarm.

Well, your first mistake was buying chowdah anywhere in New Hampshire. Never trust seafood in a state with less than 20 miles of coastline.

kdiff77
06-02-2013, 10:56 PM
Has to be coaching. Not that Gaudet isnt good- but maybe not exceptional. I think we saw what Gadowsky did at Princeton after so many bad years. Yes he recruited better, but he really is a great coach.
I think Harvard with Donato is even a more striking version of the phenomenon at Dartmouth

Gaudet made the NCAA Tournament with Brown in 1993 with a team that was probably less talented that many of the teams he's had at Dartmouth. That being said, he had some REALLY bad years in Providence- so perhaps he is the root of the problem, and had a few years of sustained decent play at Brown due to good recruiting and team cohesion.

ADK11
06-03-2013, 07:24 AM
Gaudet is the best coach Dartmouth has had since Eddie Jeremiah, who first coached when Model-Ts were still on the road. Yeah, George Crowe took the Big Green to two F4s, but he only had 3 winning seasons in 9 and was summarily shown the door after a 3-win season. That was beginning of about 20 years of terrible Dartmouth hockey (Union was even arguably better than the Green at times during this period). IMO Gaudet is a good to very good coach who, along with Peters, has recruited some very good players. His teams play a good style of hockey and look well coached most of the time. He has had some very good teams that just lacked a piece or two to be truly great teams. The teams in the early-mid '00s were exceptional, but IMO suffered from mediocre goaltending (a consistent problem on his teams IMO), as well as unfortunately running up against even more exceptional teams at Harvard & Cornell. Just because Yale & Allain put together an NC team & program, don't think its easy to be an Ivy and put together a full team that turns into a great one. Brown didn't exactly "take off" after Grillo took over.

I also suspect there just is not much of an alumni/booster groundswell for a change at Dartmouth given the relative success (emphasis on relative). Despite the location and long history of hockey in Hanover it doesn't seem to be the "big sport" on campus or in the community, I suspect because the "golden days" of the 30s & 40s are so far in the past and 80s & 90s were so terrible. Maybe a coaching change would make all the difference, but could make things worse. The comparison to Harvard is a good one. Mazz took Harvard to 2 league titles and 3 NCAAa in 5 years, but the alumni didn't like his style and that he was not a Harvard man, so they replaced him with Donato (who had no coaching experience) and despite excellent recruiting has had several teams that underperformed.

Larriecat
06-03-2013, 11:23 AM
Larriecat, your post has me curious. I know Dartmouth has had some excellent players over many years so looking from the outside, what is the problem? Admissions? the NHL? Fan support?

Gaudet.