Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

[WiscDC]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

Pretty sure for goals:

1. Johnson
2. Eaves
3. Granato.

I looked it up in last season's fact book. [PDF] For career goals, it's Johnson, Bert DeHate, Granato, Eaves.

[DPlaya]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

I don't think we have a clear picture on Gorowski in the NCAA's as got to realistically play 1 full season

in years past (Sauer) guys who had high-end skill who were on the 4th line (dan plante as a frosh for example) would only be there because of the depth of high-end talent in front of them.

Not to make too big a deal out of this since they haven't played a game but I'm not liking the idea AT ALL of Besse spending any time on the 4th line. Honestly Zulinick has played what? 6 games? so why is he up on the #1 line vs. Besse? I'd throw Besse on one of the top 2 lines and let him go make something happen.

Zulinick is older, has more size and is more physically developed, has played both junior hockey and college hockey and did not arrive at UW with a reputation for not playing defense. I would guess Besse is being sent a message he's got to earn his way up the food chain...

Also, I think Zulinick is playing on the left side and Besse on the right where Barnes and Mersch are unlikely to be displaced from the top two lines.

[SatNightFever]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

Sorry to maybe redirect the conversation, but as a Sat Night ticket holder, I have to say I am a little steamed that the Minnesota series is a Thur-Fri set to help the BTN. That series is always so good, it should be a mandatory Fri-Sat series. Kind of disappointing. I would expect to see even more of this in the coming years, unfortunately. Hard to have my SatNightFever when my tickets are now for a Friday night.

[WiscDC]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

Sorry to maybe redirect the conversation, but as a Sat Night ticket holder, I have to say I am a little steamed that the Minnesota series is a Thur-Fri set to help the BTN. That series is always so good, it should be a mandatory Fri-Sat series. Kind of disappointing. I would expect to see even more of this in the coming years, unfortunately. Hard to have my SatNightFever when my tickets are now for a Friday night.

While I certainly understand this, if I had to pick one of our home series to be Thursday-Friday, it would be that one. That rivalry is like an attendance insurance policy, and not just because of the Gophers fans who show up.

[solovsfett]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

Zulinick is older, has more size and is more physically developed, has played both junior hockey and college hockey and did not arrive at UW with a reputation for not playing defense. I would guess Besse is being sent a message he's got to earn his way up the food chain...

Also, I think Zulinick is playing on the left side and Besse on the right where Barnes and Mersch are unlikely to be displaced from the top two lines.

true on Zulinick's age but he's played 5-7 games of NCAA hockey, I wouldn't consider that aspect a huge difference in experience between he and Besse. USHL, that pushes in Morgan's favor a bit but what I saw from Grant in the MSHSL playoffs this kid is ELITE.

My main concern is this: Grant Besse is a true talent, is Eaves going to be so ****ed stubborn that he wastes a year w/this kid trying to mold him into an Eaves player when he could alternatively let him cut loose and try and teach him tips along the way vs. putting him on the 4th line immediately?

I've said this before and I'll leave room that I could be mistaken but it seems to me that w/Eaves Heatley or Granato could walk through the doors right now as frosh and despite their OBVIOUS talent Eaves would miscast them into 4th line roles to install his defense first mentality.

and I'd ask when did this start w/him? for the posters older than me who actually saw Eaves play... I mean did he play as he's asking these guys to play or did he learn this later on in the NHL?

[WiscDC]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

Brian Posick shares his thoughts at the Big Ten media day - link. (It's not letting me embed.)

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

Here is the line chart from Derek Stepan's first game as a Badger -- 4th line right wing. Finished the season second on the club in scoring. Absolutely ridiculous that Mike Eaves would bury him on the 4th line as an 18 y/o to ease him into college hockey. I wonder what the heck he was thinking there. Probably going to rot on the 4th line for the next four seasons because he's actually talented.

Believe it or not, these guys behind the bench know a thing or two about coaching hockey.

[solovsfett]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

Here is the line chart from Derek Stepan's first game as a Badger -- 4th line right wing. Finished the season second on the club in scoring. Absolutely ridiculous that Mike Eaves would bury him on the 4th line as an 18 y/o to ease him into college hockey. I wonder what the heck he was thinking there. Probably going to rot on the 4th line for the next four seasons because he's actually talented.

Believe it or not, these guys behind the bench know a thing or two about coaching hockey.

CHUCK! don't take criticism of Eaves too personally!...of course they know a thing or two about college hockey that's in part why they're coaches

if you also notice Ben Street (senior) is on the 4th line. I disagree with both Stepan and Street on the 4th line, in fact if you look at all 4 lines there in that sample you gave, there's a LOT to disagree with in terms of who is starting where (namely Street, Stepan and Mitchell). I mean thinking about that bit of history now...Street and Stepan on the 4th line is an absolute waste of their talents. they just weren't 4th line guys

but back to the subject at hand. I maintain Besse should be a 2nd line player to start and deserves every bit of a shot at it

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

Going back to Gorowsky: I know he grew a lot in his last two seasons, but isn't it also in part because IIRC he was put in a good situation being lined with Stepan and Davies for a good chunk of the year?

[markwojo]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

CHUCK! don't take criticism of Eaves too personally!...of course they know a thing or two about college hockey that's in part why they're coaches

if you also notice Ben Street (senior) is on the 4th line. I disagree with both Stepan and Street on the 4th line, in fact if you look at all 4 lines there in that sample you gave, there's a LOT to disagree with in terms of who is starting where (namely Street, Stepan and Mitchell). I mean thinking about that bit of history now...Street and Stepan on the 4th line is an absolute waste of their talents. they just weren't 4th line guys

but back to the subject at hand. I maintain Besse should be a 2nd line player to start and deserves every bit of a shot at it

So letting a true 18 year old frosh straight out of high school level competition (and that's all Shatuck is....glorified high school hockey) playing his first college game at a sold out BC (which just happens to be one of the premier college programs) ease into things with a senior center on the 4th line is a bad thing? I can't speak for that game specifically (I'm old and my pornographic....errr....ahhh....photographic memory escapes me sometimes), but Eaves doesn't exactly play his 4th line likes it's the pro's where his 4th line might get only a shift or two a period...he has traditionally rolled all 4 when he has deepish teams like that one was. Whatever Eaves did with Stepan....seemed to work out just fine. He ended up just a little shy of a point a game as a frosh and just over a point a game in his 2 years and I think most would have considered it a significant suprise that he managed to go straight from Madison to an NHL lineup in only 2 years with no precollege junior and not a single day in the AHL.

I get the frustration with Eaves...but lets direct it toward the right places. Unless he pulls a rabbit out of his hat and comes up with a couple ready made college upper classmen (transfers?) and a couple high end impact frosh (of which I'm not sure they are out there at this point minus a late bloomer), next season is lining up to be the third round of bust in the boom and bust cycle that has been the hallmark of Eaves tenure. Veteran fairly deep teams that have success (which should be the case this year), followed by a couple years of very young teams having at best mediocrity for results.

[Timothy A]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

Going back to Gorowsky: I know he grew a lot in his last two seasons, but isn't it also in part because IIRC he was put in a good situation being lined with Stepan and Davies for a good chunk of the year?

Exactly. If you stick a scorer on the 4th line with guys who don't have the ability set him up or don't have the ability to get into position to finish what the scorer sets up, how is the scorer going to score? Plus the 4th line generally gets the lowest amount of ice time.

My point is that Besse can't end up there long-term, (but can start there short term). I'm just being paranoid about the 4th line thing from what we've all seen in the past in regards to some players. I think he'll end up on the 3rd line sooner than later, but you never know.

Player development.....I give Eaves little credit when a highly touted guy comes in and delivers. I want to see more John Mitchell/Adam Burish type development out of players like Navin, Meuer, Paape, Cavallini and McGuire. Not all these guys will get to that level, but UW needs more than 1 to make that next step in development. Aside from Mitchell and Burish, who has taken the next step under Eaves? Maybe Woods would have, had he not left. And I am critical of Eaves when a guy like Gorowsky comes in and doesn't deliver. If he was a bad skater, coach him out of it. A guy with that much talent should be an easy teach.

3 days from live free hockey.....mega excited.

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

Maybe we should chill and see how things play out? Maybe?


Of all the things I worry about with Eaves, wasting talented players isn't one of them.

The problem is too often not having enough offensively talented players at the same time/on the same team. In addition of course to the points that Wojo makes.

I'm sure that Besse will be given every opportunity to move up the depth chart if he shows himself to be worthy.

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

Maybe we should chill and see how things play out? Maybe?

Novel concept. I have a hard time getting bent out of shape about lines they used in practice once before real practices can even take place.

[Tiggsy]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

While I certainly understand this, if I had to pick one of our home series to be Thursday-Friday, it would be that one. That rivalry is like an attendance insurance policy, and not just because of the Gophers fans who show up.

Actually doing that will keep some of us like me away. I was planning on making this trip but can't take two days off work for it. So I'll be missing this one and waiting for the press conference on BTN to interrupt coverage of te game on TV.

[WiscDC]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

Actually doing that will keep some of us like me away. I was planning on making this trip but can't take two days off work for it. So I'll be missing this one and waiting for the press conference on BTN to interrupt coverage of te game on TV.

It's not that as many people will be interested in going to this as a Friday-Saturday series, but I think it will take less of a hit than another series moving to Thursday-Friday.