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maineiac
04-03-2013, 03:02 PM
[QUOTE=riverhawk2000;5699940]Lowell got a bunch of student support because the Student Activities Office helped out with tickets and transportation. They got free tix (w/bus) to the HE tournament, $10 tix (w/bus) to the regional and they are now offering $150 for tix/bus/hotel to the FF. I'm not sure what other schools are doing, but it seems like that's the way to go.[/QUOTE

Is there a Lowell student out there that would take me along as a guest to the FF? That's quite a deal for $150!

WildShawn
04-03-2013, 03:09 PM
I can see beer being a nice extra at an event, but if not having beer (overpriced beer) at a college hockey game is a reason not to go, I feel sorry for you

Fishhawk
04-03-2013, 03:39 PM
I can see beer being a nice extra at an event, but if not having beer (overpriced beer) at a college hockey game is a reason not to go, I feel sorry for you

Keep your sympathy and shove it up your holier than my arse! "Nice extras" like a comfortable venue close to home with adequate facilities and a variety of concessions including beer for responsible adults all contribute to a positive experience that will get a casual fan to come back. Any factor that could possibly contribute to that experience and increase attendance at regionals is relevant to this discussion UNLIKE your judgmental little snipe.

Rover
04-03-2013, 04:29 PM
Lowell got a bunch of student support because the Student Activities Office helped out with tickets and transportation. They got free tix (w/bus) to the HE tournament, $10 tix (w/bus) to the regional and they are now offering $150 for tix/bus/hotel to the FF. I'm not sure what other schools are doing, but it seems like that's the way to go.

Good for them. Its nice to see the school take care of its fans.

Slap Shot
04-03-2013, 07:47 PM
I wasn't aware that NCAA hockey needed saving. If it's that close to folding that an extra 15K tickets sold makes the difference between having hockey and not having hockey then we're in an even worse situation than imagined.

It doesn't need saving, which is imprecisely why the paltry extra tickets sold at the expense of bracket integrity were meaningless. Didn't think my posts were cryptic.

chickod
04-04-2013, 07:18 AM
Keep your sympathy and shove it up your holier than my arse! "Nice extras" like a comfortable venue close to home with adequate facilities and a variety of concessions including beer for responsible adults all contribute to a positive experience that will get a casual fan to come back. Any factor that could possibly contribute to that experience and increase attendance at regionals is relevant to this discussion UNLIKE your judgmental little snipe.

Yes, but the NCAA doesn't allow beer...we all know that their "student athletes" are all squeaky clean choir boys that don't use alcohol or drugs. By the way, why haven't you gotten back to me about that tropical resort in Alaska I wanted to sell you? :D

chickod
04-04-2013, 07:21 AM
The floor is capable of holding a regulation sized rink (thank god!)........but there is no in-house ice making capability or equipment.

That seems really bizarre...

sandiegoblkbr
04-04-2013, 08:09 AM
That seems really bizarre...

Yeah.......especially for $65 million.

matt
04-04-2013, 09:11 AM
Lowell got a bunch of student support because the Student Activities Office helped out with tickets and transportation. They got free tix (w/bus) to the HE tournament, $10 tix (w/bus) to the regional and they are now offering $150 for tix/bus/hotel to the FF. I'm not sure what other schools are doing, but it seems like that's the way to go.

That is a fantastic deal, and it slaughters what I'm hearing out of Yale.
The information I have is that Yale is sending the band, so the band members get tix/bus/hotel free.
But Yale, in total, is offering up a grand total of 600 tickets. Those are going to season ticket holders, donors to the Yale Hockey Association, and students. Very few students are season ticket holders or donors to the YHA. Only 100 of the 600 tickets are slotted for the students, and they are being sold at face value -- $200 for a two days pass for tickets in section 109 or 110 (and that's more than some of the offers right now on the ticket board for the same sections -- with no transportation or lodging. Add those things, and a student making the trip is looking at a total expense of probably $500 (if traveling in a car with 4 passengers and sharing hotel rooms), in addition to the missed days of classes. I don't think very many students are going to do that.

I think Yale is taking it seriously, and that will include a viewing party at the basketball arena that I'm guessing will have a couple thousand people attend. But it would have been nice to see them do something as innovative as what Lowell is doing.

chickod
04-04-2013, 11:21 AM
a student making the trip is looking at a total expense of probably $500 (if traveling in a car with 4 passengers and sharing hotel rooms), in addition to the missed days of classes. I don't think very many students are going to do that.

Um...I think if they're going to Yale then that "expense" is probably not a problem...just put it on daddy's credit card because once they graduate they'll OWN the ticket agency... :) (and if not, they'll sue someone to get it)

FlagDUDE08
04-04-2013, 11:40 AM
That is a fantastic deal, and it slaughters what I'm hearing out of Yale.
The information I have is that Yale is sending the band, so the band members get tix/bus/hotel free.
But Yale, in total, is offering up a grand total of 600 tickets. Those are going to season ticket holders, donors to the Yale Hockey Association, and students. Very few students are season ticket holders or donors to the YHA. Only 100 of the 600 tickets are slotted for the students, and they are being sold at face value -- $200 for a two days pass for tickets in section 109 or 110 (and that's more than some of the offers right now on the ticket board for the same sections -- with no transportation or lodging. Add those things, and a student making the trip is looking at a total expense of probably $500 (if traveling in a car with 4 passengers and sharing hotel rooms), in addition to the missed days of classes. I don't think very many students are going to do that.

I think Yale is taking it seriously, and that will include a viewing party at the basketball arena that I'm guessing will have a couple thousand people attend. But it would have been nice to see them do something as innovative as what Lowell is doing.

Innovative? You mean lose money in order to get butts in seats?

WildShawn
04-04-2013, 11:44 AM
Innovative? You mean lose money in order to get butts in seats?

They can spare it, I reckon..

IrishHockeyFan
04-04-2013, 12:03 PM
I can see beer being a nice extra at an event, but if not having beer (overpriced beer) at a college hockey game is a reason not to go, I feel sorry for you

Why doesn't anyone complain about the venues that don't serve, for instance say, pizza slices? I like my beer, but I find it difficult to believe that there are more than a few tens or dozens of people who WON'T go to the regionals simply because of the lack of beer, anymore than staying away because the concession stands sell no pizza.

Now whether or not to sell beer is certainly a valid question to ponder (personally I see no reason to NOT sell it, it's available at virtually every sporting event in the world, amateur or pro), but those who think that it is any large reason for the meager crowds are fooling themselves. And yes I know there are those here who offer themselves as anecdotal evidence, but remember, it is just that. If there were even 500 people who failed to show up at Van Andel or Toledo who would have been there had beer been available, you still would have had fewer than 2500 in Van Andel, a horrible crowd considering the game featured one of the most storied teams in the NCAA and one that usually has a decent traveling fan base, and fewer than 3000 in Toledo, even with Miami being a fairly easy drive.

The games are probably too expensive, the travel is almost always an onerous task for at least 3/4 of the teams in the western regionals, and sometimes making arrangements on short notice is very difficult.

I don't think we can do anything anymore to "fix" these regionals out west. Perhaps finding a permanent host? Even that won't really help with anyone other than the few diehards left who would at least try to attend a regional whether or not their team is participating. Getting teams "close" isn't the answer, or Toledo would have been better attended. There will rarely be a regional out here that has more than one team within an hour of the venue. It looks like that is about the maximum distance that most fans are willing to travel anymore. We either accept the small crowds, or go back to campus venues and high seeds hosting.

chickod
04-04-2013, 12:56 PM
Why doesn't anyone complain about the venues that don't serve, for instance say, pizza slices? I like my beer, but I find it difficult to believe that there are more than a few tens or dozens of people who WON'T go to the regionals simply because of the lack of beer, anymore than staying away because the concession stands sell no pizza.

Now whether or not to sell beer is certainly a valid question to ponder (personally I see no reason to NOT sell it, it's available at virtually every sporting event in the world, amateur or pro), but those who think that it is any large reason for the meager crowds are fooling themselves. And yes I know there are those here who offer themselves as anecdotal evidence, but remember, it is just that. If there were even 500 people who failed to show up at Van Andel or Toledo who would have been there had beer been available, you still would have had fewer than 2500 in Van Andel, a horrible crowd considering the game featured one of the most storied teams in the NCAA and one that usually has a decent traveling fan base, and fewer than 3000 in Toledo, even with Miami being a fairly easy drive.

The games are probably too expensive, the travel is almost always an onerous task for at least 3/4 of the teams in the western regionals, and sometimes making arrangements on short notice is very difficult.

I don't think we can do anything anymore to "fix" these regionals out west. Perhaps finding a permanent host? Even that won't really help with anyone other than the few diehards left who would at least try to attend a regional whether or not their team is participating. Getting teams "close" isn't the answer, or Toledo would have been better attended. There will rarely be a regional out here that has more than one team within an hour of the venue. It looks like that is about the maximum distance that most fans are willing to travel anymore. We either accept the small crowds, or go back to campus venues and high seeds hosting.

Even though you're a fan of the Irish, I agree with everything you said! :eek: :D Speaking of anecdotal, the BEST food I have had at any sports venue past or present was at the old County Stadium in Milwaukee (circa 1990) with the brats, roast beef, etc. Better than a lot of restaurants!!

Shirtless Guy
04-04-2013, 02:26 PM
I personally think the four biggest issues for regionals in the West are:
1) The cost is too high
2) The single ticket for both regional semifinals and the published inability to leave in between...with limited attendance, it seems better to have each game have its own tickets at lower prices with more seperation between game times allowing time for dinner or drinks in between games (something the final five gets right).
3) The lack of time between conference championships and the regionals. I have long said the off week should be between the conference championships and regionals, not between the regionals and frozen four. Most if not all the people going to the frozen four know well in advance and plan accordingly. Also, short notice is far easier when you know where the location is ASAP. Once its clear your team is in the tournament, unless you're hosting a regional, the location is still TBD until Sunday evening.

Alton
04-04-2013, 02:58 PM
I personally think the [three] biggest issues for regionals in the West are...

1) certainly, but I think you would have to drop into the single-digit range, say $5 or so, to significantly affect attendance (by attracting curious locals).
2) I don't see it. Nobody decided not to go because of some "no return" policy. 90 percent of the people there were only at the semifinals for one game anyway, but many of them decided to watch the other semifinal only because it was free. A "return permitted" policy would not sell one more ticket.
3) Yes, absolutely.

The most significant problems are these:
(a) people don't fly to regionals, ever. I would guess that no more than 100 people at any given regional over the last 10 years got there by plane, and the average was probably less than 50.
(b) people don't even seem to want to spend the night in a hotel for regionals. I would also guess that 90 to 95 percent of the people at any regional semifinal game spent the night before in their own beds, and will spend the night after in their own beds.
(c) there really isn't any reasonable action that the NCAA Hockey Committee can take to change issues (a) and (b) without making the tournament a worse experience for the student-athlete.

This means that any setup with pre-determined regional sites will only get average college hockey fans from a 100 or so mile radius (maybe 200 or so for particularly dedicated fans). I know everybody on here is now going to chime in with how far they travel to see regionals (I traveled from southeast Michigan to Albany twice myself), but that's not the point--there are not enough of us to fill a hockey arena.

The sad fact is that the predetermined-site regionals don't work. There is nothing that can be done to make them work. We just need to call it a 20+ year experiment that has obviously failed, and go back to the drawing board. Perhaps the NCAA Hockey Committee could take a look at other 16-team bracketed tournaments that they have in Division I (e.g., Men's Lacrosse, Women's Lacrosse, Field Hockey) and see how they do things. Personally, the Men's Lacrosse format strikes me as quite reasonable.

riverhawk2000
04-04-2013, 03:08 PM
Innovative? You mean lose money in order to get butts in seats?

You know all those fees you pay when you go to college? Trust me, they're not losing any money...just putting it where it should be. It hasn't always been that way at UML, but they're striking while the iron is hot and I give them credit for finding the resources to help the college kids out.

This attendance issue is simple - find ways to get the students to the games at a discount. They can keep charging Joe Hockeyfan $40+ per game, but they need to set aside more tickets for students for free or at deep discounts. The NCAA should give schools 1000 tickets for free to distribute to students. Then schools can spend their budgets on transportation and each game will have 2000 - 4000 more LOUD fans instead of empty seats and people sitting on their hands.

Shirtless Guy
04-04-2013, 03:15 PM
1) certainly, but I think you would have to drop into the single-digit range, say $5 or so, to significantly affect attendance (by attracting curious locals).
2) I don't see it. Nobody decided not to go because of some "no return" policy. 90 percent of the people there were only at the semifinals for one game anyway, but many of them decided to watch the other semifinal only because it was free. A "return permitted" policy would not sell one more ticket.
3) Yes, absolutely.

The most significant problems are these:
(a) people don't fly to regionals, ever. I would guess that no more than 100 people at any given regional over the last 10 years got there by plane, and the average was probably less than 50.
(b) people don't even seem to want to spend the night in a hotel for regionals. I would also guess that 90 to 95 percent of the people at any regional semifinal game spent the night before in their own beds, and will spend the night after in their own beds.
(c) there really isn't any reasonable action that the NCAA Hockey Committee can take to change issues (a) and (b) without making the tournament a worse experience for the student-athlete.

This means that any setup with pre-determined regional sites will only get average college hockey fans from a 100 or so mile radius (maybe 200 or so for particularly dedicated fans). I know everybody on here is now going to chime in with how far they travel to see regionals (I traveled from southeast Michigan to Albany twice myself), but that's not the point--there are not enough of us to fill a hockey arena.

The sad fact is that the predetermined-site regionals don't work. There is nothing that can be done to make them work. We just need to call it a 20+ year experiment that has obviously failed, and go back to the drawing board. Perhaps the NCAA Hockey Committee could take a look at other 16-team bracketed tournaments that they have in Division I (e.g., Men's Lacrosse, Women's Lacrosse, Field Hockey) and see how they do things. Personally, the Men's Lacrosse format strikes me as quite reasonable.One option is to return to allowing schools like North Dakota, Minnesota-Duluth, Wisconsin, Nebraska-Omaha to host regionals on campus. They are great rinks to visit with good capacities and stuff to do in town. I excluded Minnesota because they have the X. I do also think it was extremely stupid of the NCAA to have 2012 regionals in Green Bay/Minneapolis (both Central time zone) while having 2013 regionals in Toledo/Grand Rapids (both eastern time zone). IF you have one of each, I think you have better attendance as well.

Shirtless Guy
04-04-2013, 03:19 PM
You know all those fees you pay when you go to college? Trust me, they're not losing any money...just putting it where it should be. It hasn't always been that way at UML, but they're striking while the iron is hot and I give them credit for finding the resources to help the college kids out.

This attendance issue is simple - find ways to get the students to the games at a discount. They can keep charging Joe Hockeyfan $40+ per game, but they need to set aside more tickets for students for free or at deep discounts. The NCAA should give schools 1000 tickets for free to distribute to students. Then schools can spend their budgets on transportation and each game will have 2000 - 4000 more LOUD fans instead of empty seats and people sitting on their hands.Not a bad idea at all, if you did do 1000 tickets free to schools and still had the 2500 fans in Grand Rapids, you're looking at closer to 6000 in attendance. Even if you did 500 or 750 its still a huge improvement for atmosphere for the players involved.

Alton
04-04-2013, 03:26 PM
While I'm with you on allowing schools to host regionals on campus, I don't see why only certain schools should be allowed that opportunity. Either they all should be allowed, or none should be allowed, but I have been mystified about the NCAA Hockey Committee's logic in allowing only certain schools to host.


...stuff to do in town...

This is not an issue. In my experience, people don't do anything at a regional other than go to hockey, drink, eat and drink. Getting back to my original point, most hockey fans won't even go to a regional if it means having to spend the night in a hotel room. If you have a regional in Omaha, it will be packed to the rafters with screaming fans if The University of Nebraska-Omaha is in the tournament. It will be Grand Rapids-level empty if The University of Nebraska-Omaha is not in the tournament, unless you drop the ticket prices to single digits.

Why not adopt a format where we can guarantee that every first round game is played in an arena that is packed to the rafters with screaming fans? The game day atmosphere is the best thing about college hockey, and for some reason, when the NCAA tournament rolls around, we try to act like it is the worst thing.