>>>>> RIT TIGERS 2012-13: Clawing our way up the standings in the 2nd half

[TigerFan86-87]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2012-13: Clawing our way up the standings in the 2nd half

And while we are quibbling on facts, RIT didn't "always" play well in the Ritter. I'll accept usually.

I was merely mimicking the wording used in the original claim that RIT "... always plays well in Erie." I think we all know that always is just being used as a figure of speech. But if one does want to get technical, I remember a pretty bad loss in Erie after the Tigers ate some chicken they probably shouldn't have

[Ed Trefzger]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2012-13: Clawing our way up the standings in the 2nd half

From the game notes published by RIT for this weekend's games:

RIT is 28-15-6 all-time against the Lakers, as the two schools were also rivals at the Division III level in the ECAC West conference from 1988-99. The Tigers are 12-6-3 against Mercyhurst at the Division I level, including a 7-2-1 mark at the Mercyhurst Ice Center over that time period.

[WestsideTigersFan]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2012-13: Clawing our way up the standings in the 2nd half

Let me get this straight. An RIT professor is asking me to prove a negative statement by providing evidence that something didn't occur?

You don't, by any chance, teach any courses in logic, do you?

No, sorry, the only "evidence" I have is the fact that despite Simone's alleged antipathy, we did in fact go D-I under his watch. As such, it will take some significant evidence to prove that this was done despite his opposition to it. Westside's link is interesting, but the fact that Simone was generally opposed to big-money college sports hype and its semi-pro nature (as I am) does not preclude supporting it locally (as I do) -- that is, as long as it's going to exist in its current form, RIT would have been remiss not to take advantage of that particular opportunity.


Powers &8^]

Do you really think that someone would publish a manifesto that calls for the elimination of DI athletics while at the same time be in favor of the institution he runs allowing a part of the athletic program to go DI? Of course not. Use that hat rack on top of your shoulders for something other than a hat rack for a minute.

RIT went DI in spite of Al Simone. The trustees forced the matter and Al lost. It's that simple. It's not a coincidence that shortly after the announcement of DI hockey, Al Simone was on his way out and Bill Destler, who had a hand in the Athletics at Maryland, was brought in.

If Simone's own published words and position on the matter isn't enough to convince you of the reality, then there is nothing that will help you see it. And if that still isn't enough for you, talk to some of the school's employee's associated with athletics who were around during that time, or talk to a trustee or 2 who was around then. If they feel comfortable enough with you, they will tell you the truth. But to run around proclaiming that Al Simone brought DI hockey to RIT is beyond ridiculous.

[Chris Lerch]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2012-13: Clawing our way up the standings in the 2nd half

Simone never would have changed his mind without pressure from the board. But he did change his mind. And it had to be hockey, not only because that was RIT's bread-and-butter sport, but because the Ivies were making hockey work, as were comparable schools like Clarkson and RPI. That was a big factor, based on interviews and conversations I had with him.

And yes, being a lame duck president did make it easier for him to change his mind. It was going to be someone else's problem.

[RITProf]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2012-13: Clawing our way up the standings in the 2nd half

Let me get this straight. An RIT professor is asking me to prove a negative statement by providing evidence that something didn't occur?

You don't, by any chance, teach any courses in logic, do you?

That's not what I asked you and no, I don't teach logic, but I understand it very well.

(In case you still don't understand, I simply asked if you had evidence that contradicts mine, not to prove that I don't have mine ... which is well corroborated.)

I'll say this one last time. I had many interactions with Pres. Simone, verbally and in writing, and he was not in favor of the hockey move to D1 up until a matter of months before the announcement (unless he was lying to me, and I don't think he was). I will not deny that it happened under his watch, but he never told me that he supported it (even after the fact). Nor did he say that he didn't support it after the fact. Why is this so hard to believe, administrators often approve initiatives that they do not fully support because others (e.g., the faculty) do. I think Chris summarized it well.

[Ed Trefzger]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2012-13: Clawing our way up the standings in the 2nd half

I'll say this one last time. I had many interactions with Pres. Simone, verbally and in writing, and he was not in favor of the hockey move to D1 up until a matter of months before the announcement (unless he was lying to me, and I don't think he was). I will not deny that it happened under his watch, but he never told me that he supported it (even after the fact). Nor did he say that he didn't support it after the fact. Why is this so hard to believe, administrators often approve initiatives that they do not fully support because others (e.g., the faculty) do. I think Chris summarized it well.

Maybe we need to swear a number of people from the administration, athletics, and the board of trustees under oath, take depositions, and subpoena internal emails and memos. Maybe there's even security video? Perhaps that would begin to be enough evidence.

And I'm the one called naive here. (And I know it wasn't LtPowers who did that.)

[RITProf]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2012-13: Clawing our way up the standings in the 2nd half

Maybe we need to swear a number of people from the administration, athletics, and the board of trustees under oath, take depositions, and subpoena internal emails and memos. Maybe there's even security video? Perhaps that would begin to be enough evidence.

Darn ... I was just going to use my 8x10 glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one ...

And I'm the one called naive here. (And I know it wasn't LtPowers who did that.)

Well you just made me laugh on a day that was a very difficult thing to do ... I am not worthy, sir, and I hereby request permission to join you in the ranks of the naive.

[blazer777]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2012-13: Clawing our way up the standings in the 2nd half

Let me get this straight. An RIT professor is asking me to prove a negative statement by providing evidence that something didn't occur?

You don't, by any chance, teach any courses in logic, do you?


Powers &8^]

Actually, he asking you to do the opposite. He's asking you to prove something happened but not what he said happened. make sense?

[blazer777]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2012-13: Clawing our way up the standings in the 2nd half

If everything works out as planned.......

Providence
16 RIT vs. 1 Quinnipiac
9 Yale vs. 8 St. Cloud State


Read more: http://www.uscho.com/bracketology/20...#ixzz2Kp4bGpkG

[MattS]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2012-13: Clawing our way up the standings in the 2nd half

And I'm the one called naive here. (And I know it wasn't LtPowers who did that.)

I am not worthy, sir, and I hereby request permission to join you in the ranks of the naive.

Hey now! I am the one who decides who is and who is not naive!!!

[LtPowers]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2012-13: Clawing our way up the standings in the 2nd half

Actually, he asking you to do the opposite. He's asking you to prove something happened but not what he said happened. make sense?

No, he claimed the trustees had to browbeat (or otherwise forcefully convince) Simone to accept D-I hockey, and then asked if I had evidence to the contrary. How I'm supposed to produce evidence that the Board did not perform this action is beyond me. Ought I attempt to account for each of their locations and each telephone conversation each one had with the President for the entire (few months? year?) before the announcement?

Anyway, I certainly did not mean for this to devolve into name-calling and wild accusations. My original point is that we must remember it was not Bill Destler who brought D-I hockey to RIT. Whatever Al Simone thought of D-I sports, it was on his watch that the move happened, and I don't see any reason he shouldn't get credit for getting the ball rolling in a successful way.


Powers &8^]

[lmg6841]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2012-13: Clawing our way up the standings in the 2nd half

Plans.. dreams.. which ever.

If everything works out as planned.......

Providence
16 RIT vs. 1 Quinnipiac
9 Yale vs. 8 St. Cloud State


Read more: http://www.uscho.com/bracketology/20...#ixzz2Kp4bGpkG

[blazer777]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2012-13: Clawing our way up the standings in the 2nd half

Plans.. dreams.. which ever.

You never know

[lmg6841]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2012-13: Clawing our way up the standings in the 2nd half

You're right.. I'd love to see it. However, there are lots of seemingly insurmountable obstacles to get over. The first one being our inability to play consistently. Not to mention Niagara, Air Force (still have yet to score a goal on them in Blue Cross Arena), and Mercyhurst.

You never know

[Tom Naeger]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2012-13: Clawing our way up the standings in the 2nd half

it was not Bill Destler who brought D-I hockey to RIT. Whatever Al Simone thought of D-I sports, it was on his watch that the move happened, and I don't see any reason he shouldn't get credit for getting the ball rolling in a successful way.

Powers &8^]

And then he left very soon afterwards, but they did make a statue of him, all though I swear every time I see it that he was taller than they made his statue...

I'm not here to **** on Al Simone's legacy, I'll let his own deeds stand for judgment by those who choose to, but I think its important to realize some of his deeds don't exactly support the concept he supported DI athletics at all.

Well I sure ain't missing him at all....

Hey now! I am the one who decides who is and who is not naive!!!

Dang it then what is my job on the board these days???

If everything works out as planned.......

Providence
16 RIT vs. 1 Quinnipiac
9 Yale vs. 8 St. Cloud State


Read more: http://www.uscho.com/bracketology/20...#ixzz2Kp4bGpkG

Well everything has gone just the way we've drawn it up so far this season...