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Waite21
01-31-2013, 03:40 PM
Going back a long time i still remember 2 linesmen and one ref. They did have a period of time where there was one ref, one assistant ref, and one linesman. You have to go back much further to have the one ref one linesman era. In my view, the two ref system can work but they both have to be on the same page. There is also no doubt that certain pairs work better together and do a much better job of both watching the goal line while the other backs up the play from behind the blue line.

Sorry for being a little late with this post, but since we're discussing ancient history, maybe it doesn't matter.

My recollection is that, way back in my student days of the '60's, there were only two officials, each of whom served in the dual capacity of both referee and linesman.

There has been much discussion of referees who didn't call games the way we might have liked to see them, but for me, the ref who takes the cake will always be Giles Threadgold, who presided over a farce of a game between RPI and Colgate in 1968.

Oddly, I have absolutely no recollection of who the other official - who should probably have shared 50% of the blame - was on that occasion.

FlagDUDE08
01-31-2013, 03:41 PM
I realized that, FD. There are many prime fractions, but not all, that have that property. For example, all 16 fractions from 1/17 to 16/17 use the sequence 0588235294117647 with a different starting point.

This is true. 3 and 11 don't, 2 and 5 terminate, but I think the higher you go, the more often you see it. Of course, we'd only have to worry about that if Kotyra and Murphy do another game after Schafer was suspended. :eek:

FlagDUDE08
01-31-2013, 03:44 PM
Interestingly enough, the pattern still holds if you divide by 14. However, the first digit will be out of sequence if the dividend is an odd number.

Red Cloud
01-31-2013, 03:58 PM
This is true. 3 and 11 don't, 2 and 5 terminate, but I think the higher you go, the more often you see it. Of course, we'd only have to worry about that if Kotyra and Murphy do another game after Schafer was suspended. :eek:

BTW, in addition to the games mentioned at WaP, Kotyra also did the Cornell game from two years ago where he needed a police escort out of the building with Feola trailing behind after that moronic call against Brutlag (that, come to think of it, was awfully similar to the Bailen call), considering that the student section was practically about to riot (or did riot, if you consider the amount of trash thrown at them as they left the ice).

He was also, as you mention, called in to be Fat Mike's personal referee in that obnoxious Game #2 at Lynah back in York's freshman year, the game where RPI had 18 billion penalties called against them thanks to FM's whininess.

DrDemento
01-31-2013, 04:05 PM
Sorry for being a little late with this post, but since we're discussing ancient history, maybe it doesn't matter.

My recollection is that, way back in my student days of the '60's, there were only two officials, each of whom served in the dual capacity of both referee and linesman.

There has been much discussion of referees who didn't call games the way we might have liked to see them, but for me, the ref who takes the cake will always be Giles Threadgold, who presided over a farce of a game between RPI and Colgate in 1968.

Oddly, I have absolutely no recollection of who the other official - who should probably have shared 50% of the blame - was on that occasion.

Was Threadgold the one who called the plethora of penalties in an RPI/Colgate game so that there were not enough non-penalized players to finish the game?

FlagDUDE08
01-31-2013, 04:05 PM
BTW, in addition to the games mentioned at WaP, Kotyra also did the Cornell game from two years ago where he needed a police escort out of the building with Feola trailing behind after that moronic call against Brutlag (that, come to think of it, was awfully similar to the Bailen call), considering that the student section was practically about to riot (or did riot, if you consider the amount of trash thrown at them as they left the ice).

He was also, as you mention, called in to be Fat Mike's personal referee in that obnoxious Game #2 at Lynah back in York's freshman year, the game where RPI had 18 billion penalties called against them thanks to FM's whininess.

That second paragraph was indeed my game of reference. Cornell had 9 penalties in that game (one of which was a double minor but as part of a coincidental), RPI had 19, NONE were double (one matching, two 2-minute 5x3 [one which included a bench minor], and one major at the end as an added digitus medius).

FreshFish
01-31-2013, 04:06 PM
And Saturday is Groundhog Day. :)

Again?

This keeps happening, over and over...... ;)

DrDemento
01-31-2013, 04:08 PM
BTW, in addition to the games mentioned at WaP, Kotyra also did the Cornell game from two years ago where he needed a police escort out of the building with Feola trailing behind after that moronic call against Brutlag (that, come to think of it, was awfully similar to the Bailen call), considering that the student section was practically about to riot (or did riot, if you consider the amount of trash thrown at them as they left the ice).

He was also, as you mention, called in to be Fat Mike's personal referee in that obnoxious Game #2 at Lynah back in York's freshman year, the game where RPI had 18 billion penalties called against them thanks to FM's whininess.

Thanks RC-I did not list all the specific games that Kotyra has been involved with that have led to my listing him as one of the top 3 horrible refs of all time but that Cornell ECAC playoff game was one of my reasons he is on the list. That game elevated him and his cohort in crime, Murphy, well up the standings. I need to look back at that box score and count how many times and for how many minutes they put us down 2 men at the same time.

FlagDUDE08
01-31-2013, 04:12 PM
Thanks RC-I did not list all the specific games that Kotyra has been involved with that have led to my listing him as one of the top 3 horrible refs of all time but that Cornell ECAC playoff game was one of my reasons he is on the list. That game elevated him and his cohort in crime, Murphy, well up the standings. I need to look back at that box score and count how many times and for how many minutes they put us down 2 men at the same time.

He was also pretty awful at the Clarkson game in 09-10 (I was coming home from a business trip, decided to hop off the clock and check out the game). I seem to remember that even after we won, Section 33 was a bit outraged.

FlagDUDE08
01-31-2013, 04:13 PM
Thanks RC-I did not list all the specific games that Kotyra has been involved with that have led to my listing him as one of the top 3 horrible refs of all time but that Cornell ECAC playoff game was one of my reasons he is on the list. That game elevated him and his cohort in crime, Murphy, well up the standings. I need to look back at that box score and count how many times and for how many minutes they put us down 2 men at the same time.

Here, I'll make it easy: http://www.collegehockeystats.net/0809/boxes/mcorren1.m14

DrDemento
01-31-2013, 04:15 PM
Here, I'll make it easy: http://www.collegehockeystats.net/0809/boxes/mcorren1.m14

Thanks FD-I did find it. I am not sure but it appears we played with 3 men and a goalie at 10 different times during that game for varying amounts of time. At times we were down 2 men with one waiting to start his time in the penalty box. In 50 years of RPI hockey I cannot ever recall that many double short handed opportunities in any one game.

Beman
01-31-2013, 05:54 PM
I believe our great coach has got to prove something this weekend. He has the goalie, the underclassment "are the best" Prove you can coach. You need 2 wins. Get off you tube put on your big boy pants and win TWO

AspyDad
01-31-2013, 06:06 PM
I believe our great coach has got to prove something this weekend. He has the goalie, the underclassment "are the best" Prove you can coach. You need 2 wins. Get off you tube put on your big boy pants and win TWO

Inspirational

AspyDad
01-31-2013, 06:11 PM
Hey all you whiners on the thread, "Tryouts out in August". The arrogance from Mr. Stewart is amazing. He has alot to do with the diminishing product that is the ECAC. I want to thank one of our founding fathers, DrD for his vigilance on the "Kotrya effect"

AspyDad
01-31-2013, 06:14 PM
I want to formally extend an invite to Paul Stewart to debate me on the Wyland ECAC show next thursday. He can even have Schottsie moderate the debate.

FlagDUDE08
01-31-2013, 06:17 PM
I want to formally extend an invite to Paul Stewart to debate me on the Wyland ECAC show next thursday. He can even have Schottsie moderate the debate.

I thought Schottsie didn't like you...

AspyDad
01-31-2013, 06:19 PM
I thought Schottsie didn't like you...

Nobody from the league likes me because I dare challenge the status quo.

DrDemento
01-31-2013, 06:32 PM
Hey all you whiners on the thread, "Tryouts out in August". The arrogance from Mr. Stewart is amazing. He has alot to do with the diminishing product that is the ECAC. I want to thank one of our founding fathers, DrD for his vigilance on the "Kotrya effect"

Thanks Aspy but i was just pointing out the obvious. Hockey is a very intricate game. Every call can turn out to mean the result of the game is altered. usually they even out. We get as many bad calls on the opponent as we get against ourselves. We get emotional and sometimes forget that. I want to believe that officials really do try to do the best job and call a consistent and fair game. But over a long enough period of time-seeing the officials over and over again-some things just become a bit too obvious. The stat sheet at the end of a game never tells the entire story. You really have to see agame either live or covered as well as possible on TV (and RPI TV does a superb job). Anyone who just looks at the final score sheet and says they can describe what happened in that game is deluding themselves. It is a 60 minute game and anycall made by an official, any missed call made by an official, and good or bad play by any player has effects far beyond just what happens at that moment. I would never judge any official by a one night appearance. Probably not even after seeing him work games a few times. But after a while you see a pattern-and when you find that other see that same pattern-something is not kosher. 50 years of followihng RPI hockey gives me a little different perspective than some others. All I ask of a crew of officials is be consistent, be fair, and try not to let a game get out of control while at the same time not becoming the focus of the game yourself. Just my 2

DrDemento
01-31-2013, 06:35 PM
Nobody from the league likes me because I dare challenge the status quo.

From 'For What It's Worth' By Buffalo Springfield

Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep

Maybe you only think that nobody from the league likes you?:rolleyes:

AspyDad
01-31-2013, 06:47 PM
From 'For What It's Worth' By Buffalo Springfield

Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep

Maybe you only think that nobody from the league likes you?:rolleyes:

Just because I'm parnoid, doesn't mean everyone is not after me :eek:.