PDA

View Full Version : ACHA D1 to NCAA D1



Pages : 1 2 3 [4] 5

UncleRay
01-22-2013, 01:14 PM
Let me try one more time.

This is the order of events that I hear you saying is occurring:
1) A couple boosters decide that UN-L should go DI in men's hockey.
2) They put a pile of cash together.
3) They build a small rink.
4) They tell the AD what is going to happen and announce they want to go DI.
5) They raise a pile more money to expand the rink they just built.
6) They start playing DI men's hockey.

I don't understand, from a financial perspective, why they don't
1) A couple boosters decide that UN-L should go DI in men's hockey.
2) They put a pile of cash together.
4) They tell the AD what is going to happen and announce they want to go DI.
5) They raise a pile more money to build a DI rink AND pay for scholarships for a few years.
6) They start playing DI men's hockey.

I'm not saying it isn't happening the way you say, I just don't understand why the tail that wags the dog would keep quiet and take an intermediate step that costs a big pile of money when they could just go from status quo to final solution in one fell swoop. And please don't say it is to see if they will get the fans in the seats - there is a difference so large between ACHA DIII and NC$$ DI that they aren't comparable. I can't imagine any organization using club hockey data to justify DI expenditures.

slowe
01-22-2013, 02:20 PM
I personally don't think it's quite that organized from a donor point of view, more of a desire to see ice sports grow in Lincoln. Here's some info from when Breslow made the donation:

Source (http://lincoln.ne.gov/city/mayor/media/2007/122007a.htm)

This is an opportunity to give back to the University of Nebraska which means so much to me, and to the community of Lincoln, which means so much to me,” Breslow said. “As an avid ice fan, I would like to see the community have greater availability for intramural, city recreational leagues, ice sports clubs and public skating. This holiday gift, to help build the Ice Center, is my way of saying thank you.

The donation was made in 2007 and at the time they thought the rink would cost $11-13 million. Breslow donated $7 million. It has taken this long for Lincoln to get organized enough to actually build this thing. Breslow apparently doesn't have $90 million lying around to start up a D1 program. He did want to see something in Lincoln though. But hey, if you're going to build the thing, why not make it flexible, just in case?

As for the basketball facility, that got built because people want to see basketball. Nebraska's program needs a boost, plus they need to compete in the Big 10 now. The only above and beyond thing there is the forethought to install the capability to make ice. I'm sure someone was thinking "Let's get as much use out of this thing as possible."

I don't think there's a grand master plan, but I think pieces happen to be lining up through forethought and generosity. Why does it have to be all (very expensive) or nothing? Why not slowly put the pieces in place and build towards a goal? At some point when enough pieces are there and it's less imposing to fund a program, something will happen that will tip Nebraska towards D1. They are getting closer and it's fun to speculate.

unofan
01-22-2013, 02:36 PM
Thanks for burying me in verbiage, conjecture, and innuendo. Would you care to answer a simple question:

He won't because the simple answer is it isn't happening. The money isn't there, especially when one considers the cost of offsetting female team(s). Especially when men's basketball is barely breaking even.

unofan
01-22-2013, 02:41 PM
I personally don't think it's quite that organized from a donor point of view, more of a desire to see ice sports grow in Lincoln. Here's some info from when Breslow made the donation:

Source (http://lincoln.ne.gov/city/mayor/media/2007/122007a.htm)


The donation was made in 2007 and at the time they thought the rink would cost $11-13 million. Breslow donated $7 million. It has taken this long for Lincoln to get organized enough to actually build this thing. Breslow apparently doesn't have $90 million lying around to start up a D1 program. He did want to see something in Lincoln though. But hey, if you're going to build the thing, why not make it flexible, just in case?

As for the basketball facility, that got built because people want to see basketball. Nebraska's program needs a boost, plus they need to compete in the Big 10 now. The only above and beyond thing there is the forethought to install the capability to make ice. I'm sure someone was thinking "Let's get as much use out of this thing as possible."

I don't think there's a grand master plan, but I think pieces happen to be lining up through forethought and generosity. Why does it have to be all (very expensive) or nothing? Why not slowly put the pieces in place and build towards a goal? At some point when enough pieces are there and it's less imposing to fund a program, something will happen that will tip Nebraska towards D1. They are getting closer and it's fun to speculate.

The only reason that building has ice is because it's technically a joint venture with the city (never mind that everything will be covered in red and UNL gets first dibs on all dates). The original plan presented by the university did not include ice.

UncleRay
01-22-2013, 06:43 PM
I personally don't think it's quite that organized from a donor point of view, more of a desire to see ice sports grow in Lincoln. Here's some info from when Breslow made the donation:

Source (http://lincoln.ne.gov/city/mayor/media/2007/122007a.htm)


The donation was made in 2007 and at the time they thought the rink would cost $11-13 million. Breslow donated $7 million. It has taken this long for Lincoln to get organized enough to actually build this thing. Breslow apparently doesn't have $90 million lying around to start up a D1 program. He did want to see something in Lincoln though. But hey, if you're going to build the thing, why not make it flexible, just in case?

As for the basketball facility, that got built because people want to see basketball. Nebraska's program needs a boost, plus they need to compete in the Big 10 now. The only above and beyond thing there is the forethought to install the capability to make ice. I'm sure someone was thinking "Let's get as much use out of this thing as possible."

I don't think there's a grand master plan, but I think pieces happen to be lining up through forethought and generosity. Why does it have to be all (very expensive) or nothing? Why not slowly put the pieces in place and build towards a goal? At some point when enough pieces are there and it's less imposing to fund a program, something will happen that will tip Nebraska towards D1. They are getting closer and it's fun to speculate.Thanks for the clarity. That makes so much more sense.

4four4
01-22-2013, 07:40 PM
I have a customer who is a big Cornhusker booster who lives in a St. Paul Suburb and I asked him about this speculation. He said, rumors are rumors until there is an announcement. He went on to say, it would be fun and exciting to see hockey in Lincoln especially with the Big Ten Network. The new AD worked at Miami of Ohio and last I looked it is a hockey school. I asked him could it even happen? As he is walking out the door he said it will be at least two years before there is any hockey talk and more importantly there are other things the department needs to deal with first. ;) We will have to wait and see.

SteveP
01-22-2013, 07:44 PM
I'll take a shot. The breslow donation was actually made a few years ago. Breslow is not paying for the whole rink, just enough to give the project a jump start. The design has a contingency that if more money comes along then they can expand it. Same logic when building the basketball stadium. Put ice making capability in there just in case.

If I were them, I would next figure out a way to fund the program itself. Budget for scholarships, coaches, etc. Play a little while out of the basketball stadium. Bide your time, then if the program is successful, build out a dedicated 6,000 seat ice arena. The whole thing could take a while and there's no incentive to move quickly. It could all take years if it even happens. But if you are making huge investments in arenas, you have to give yourself options.

Navy did something similar with the McMullen Arena at the Brigade Sports Complex. The arena was built for the ACHA club with room to expand if it happens that the academy decides to join Army and Air Force.

As for UNL, if it walks like a duck....

Hockey Monk
01-22-2013, 10:51 PM
Nebraska is basically a mirror image of Penn St.....A football school with a horrid basketball program that will never be a major power. Entertainment in the winter time is mimimal in Lincoln. Also you could say the recruiting base for hockey could be better than football with all the USHL teams around. New practice facility, new stadium, great fans, great conference, TV network, etc.....makes total sense.

Thanks for the info Red Cows.

Red Cows
01-23-2013, 12:00 AM
He won't because the simple answer is it isn't happening. The money isn't there, especially when one considers the cost of offsetting female team(s). Especially when men's basketball is barely breaking even.

The UNL Athletic Department, in 2011, had overall revenue (according to reports submitted by UNL to the Department of Education) of $83,679,756.00 and expenses of $78,509,148.00, which left the department an operating surplus of $5,170,608.00 for the year. Figures for 2012 are not yet available. These numbers do not include athletic department donations which are mostly, but not all, taken in by and administered by the NU Foundation, which is a completely separate 501(c)(3) organization. The NU Foundation, with a full time staff of 150 people, was founded and is run by donors. The Foundation took in 172 million dollars in donations in 2011. The Foundation's current assets are about 2 billion dollars. Since 2009, the NU Foundation raised more money than any public university in Colorado, Iowa, Kansas or Missouri, as well as at least two Ivy League schools, to give you an idea. NU's total endowment is among the top 20 of all U.S. public universities. Think about who some of the alumnae of this school are, which includes several members of Forbes 400 richest Americans list, including the 3rd richest man on the face of the Earth.

Now, all that money is not earmarked for athletics, but a lot of it is as witnessed by the Foundation picking up whatever is left of the tab to build the Breslow Center, an amount they seem pretty unconcerned with according to the press report I posted earlier in the thread.

Further, the University of Nebraska's athletic department is in such good financial condition that the department is among the less than 10 public universities or colleges in this country that does not receive even so much as one cent of subsidies from their parent state. Type "University of Nebraska athletic department financial woes" into to Google and you'll get zero results. Because there aren't any.

What on Earth men's basketball at UNL, and it's particular revenue issues, have to do with this discourse, I don't know. In any event, when Pinnacle Bank Arena opens that entire dynamic is projected to change dramatically, anyway. I mean, all 30 of the suites have been sold since last March and the building doesn't even open until this fall. At $45K to $60K per year, each, along with the mandatory purchase of 12 season tickets per suite in addition to the yearly rental fee? That's like another 2 million per year all by itself.

Even with the Title IX issues there would be here, and I readily acknowledge that they exist, money is NOT an impediment to this happening, particularly if the boosters want it. The amount of money being spent on athletic department facilities add-ons and upgrades, all going on right now at this writing, between the Breslow Center, Pinnacle Bank Arena, the remodeling of the East stadium at Memorial Stadium,and the remodeling of the Devaney Center is almost 290 million dollars.

Yeah, the Huskers are broke. Right. In fact, they are so cash flush that they are one of the lead protagonists in the athletic department facilities wars going on at college and universities nationwide and have athletic facilities, across the board, that are rivaled by few schools. Very few.

UNL's athletic department salaries, alone, are more than the sum total of the entire UNO athletic department budget. UNO seems to be able to afford hockey (on a less than 9 million dollar total overall athletic budget) and whatever Title IX implications it caused them. With a facility already built, this means only needing to endow another 36 scholarships, 18 men and 18 women. Nebraska President Harvey Perlman told Sports Illustrated in March of last year that the average cost of an athletic scholarship at NU is $29,064.00 per year. Times 36, that is just over a million bucks a year. That is chump change in the overall scheme of the UNL budget. Put it another way, let's say they decide to build Breslow larger. What do you think they are gonna get for the suites and their associated seats in that building if it goes that route?

Saying the money isn't there and that that is the reason it won't/can't/wouldn't happen is just utterly ridiculous.

MAVFANJEFF
01-23-2013, 04:22 AM
Personally I hope the other 8 in the B1G add hockey eventually. That just means more sheep to skin for Michigan. :D
and fatter sheep skinning rodents for the nanooks to devour should the 2 teams ever meet again. LMAO

MAVFANJEFF
01-23-2013, 04:36 AM
Ostensibly, this facility would allow UNL's club team (ACHA, Div.III) to play in Lincoln, finally, for starters. Amazingly, they don't currently--and NEVER have! They play at Sidner Ice Arena in Fremont, NE which is a YMCA facility (opened in 2004) and seats all of 350 or so and is upwards of 60 miles north of Lincoln. Here is a history of how and why the Husker Club team did not end up in the Ice Box in Lincoln, despite the fact that it was originally envisioned with them in mind, that describes that situation better than I ever could:

http://www.huskerhockey.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54%3Adetailed-club-history&catid=38&Itemid=89



Ostensibly,,, cough cough,,, if husker hockey doesn't want the inherit the " n in nebraska stands for nowledge" stigma they should go back and correct the numerous typos in that article or find an adult to do it for them.

"The next step was to get a bond issue on the next ballad and let the people of Lincoln decide what they want."
Ballad? Really? I vote with a ballot. I like a good ballad though. I wonder if they will have their team meetings in the Lancaster county jail like the football and volleyball teams do. Nevermind.
One thing I found interesting is that the Breslow center will have an olympic size rink. For what? Figure skating? If that was necesary, the figure skating event would not have taken place in Omaha at all. And, they obviously know they'd never be able to schedule games with UNO if all they could seat is 6000 people. It there's a Husker D1 team say goodbye to the Stars.

MGoBlueHockey
01-23-2013, 07:37 AM
and fatter sheep skinning rodents for the nanooks to devour should the 2 teams ever meet again. LMAO

Have you seen the series history between the two programs? AKF has won less than 15 times. Michigan just gave them a going away gift for beating their *** so many times :D

goldy_331
01-23-2013, 07:44 AM
Nebraska is basically a mirror image of Penn St.....A football school with a horrid basketball program that will never be a major power. Entertainment in the winter time is mimimal in Lincoln.

Both have good to great wrestling programs. But even in Nebraska that doesn't draw very well.

MGoBlueHockey
01-23-2013, 07:48 AM
Both have good to great wrestling programs. But even in Nebraska that doesn't draw very well.

Women's Volleyball those two are elite. PSU had a dynasty a few years ago winning tons of NCAA titles in a row.

UncleRay
01-23-2013, 08:23 AM
is NOT an impediment to this happening, particularly if the boosters want it. Forgive me, I thought you had been saying all along that there is a group of boosters who have decided that UN-L will take the hockey club DI, and, since they are the tail that wags the dog, it is a done deal. Now you are saying "IF" the boosters want?

unofan
01-23-2013, 02:52 PM
The UNL Athletic Department, in 2011, had overall revenue (according to reports submitted by UNL to the Department of Education) of $83,679,756.00 and expenses of $78,509,148.00, which left the department an operating surplus of $5,170,608.00 for the year. Figures for 2012 are not yet available. These numbers do not include athletic department donations which are mostly, but not all, taken in by and administered by the NU Foundation, which is a completely separate 501(c)(3) organization. The NU Foundation, with a full time staff of 150 people, was founded and is run by donors. The Foundation took in 172 million dollars in donations in 2011. The Foundation's current assets are about 2 billion dollars. Since 2009, the NU Foundation raised more money than any public university in Colorado, Iowa, Kansas or Missouri, as well as at least two Ivy League schools, to give you an idea. NU's total endowment is among the top 20 of all U.S. public universities. Think about who some of the alumnae of this school are, which includes several members of Forbes 400 richest Americans list, including the 3rd richest man on the face of the Earth.

Now, all that money is not earmarked for athletics, but a lot of it is as witnessed by the Foundation picking up whatever is left of the tab to build the Breslow Center, an amount they seem pretty unconcerned with according to the press report I posted earlier in the thread.

Further, the University of Nebraska's athletic department is in such good financial condition that the department is among the less than 10 public universities or colleges in this country that does not receive even so much as one cent of subsidies from their parent state. Type "University of Nebraska athletic department financial woes" into to Google and you'll get zero results. Because there aren't any.

What on Earth men's basketball at UNL, and it's particular revenue issues, have to do with this discourse, I don't know. In any event, when Pinnacle Bank Arena opens that entire dynamic is projected to change dramatically, anyway. I mean, all 30 of the suites have been sold since last March and the building doesn't even open until this fall. At $45K to $60K per year, each, along with the mandatory purchase of 12 season tickets per suite in addition to the yearly rental fee? That's like another 2 million per year all by itself.

Even with the Title IX issues there would be here, and I readily acknowledge that they exist, money is NOT an impediment to this happening, particularly if the boosters want it. The amount of money being spent on athletic department facilities add-ons and upgrades, all going on right now at this writing, between the Breslow Center, Pinnacle Bank Arena, the remodeling of the East stadium at Memorial Stadium,and the remodeling of the Devaney Center is almost 290 million dollars.

Yeah, the Huskers are broke. Right. In fact, they are so cash flush that they are one of the lead protagonists in the athletic department facilities wars going on at college and universities nationwide and have athletic facilities, across the board, that are rivaled by few schools. Very few.

UNL's athletic department salaries, alone, are more than the sum total of the entire UNO athletic department budget. UNO seems to be able to afford hockey (on a less than 9 million dollar total overall athletic budget) and whatever Title IX implications it caused them. With a facility already built, this means only needing to endow another 36 scholarships, 18 men and 18 women. Nebraska President Harvey Perlman told Sports Illustrated in March of last year that the average cost of an athletic scholarship at NU is $29,064.00 per year. Times 36, that is just over a million bucks a year. That is chump change in the overall scheme of the UNL budget. Put it another way, let's say they decide to build Breslow larger. What do you think they are gonna get for the suites and their associated seats in that building if it goes that route?

Saying the money isn't there and that that is the reason it won't/can't/wouldn't happen is just utterly ridiculous.

Tl; dr version: the endowment is big but earmarked for academics, let's ignore how football eats up its revenue, and let's also ignore the fact that nebraska has cut men's sports like gymnastics in the not too distant past. Or the fact that regents want to demolish the ice box, and have had that desire for years, but clearly they'd be all for adding a hockey team to further siphon fans from its **** poor hoops team.

Creighton is more likely to add hockey than nebraska. And that isn't exactly in the forseeable future.

Red Cows
01-24-2013, 01:38 AM
Forgive me, I thought you had been saying all along that there is a group of boosters who have decided that UN-L will take the hockey club DI, and, since they are the tail that wags the dog, it is a done deal. Now you are saying "IF" the boosters want?

That's something of the conjecture part of this on my part. Clearly, John Breslow wants us to have an arena. He kicked in 7 million bucks of his own cash to make this happen and they're sticking his name on it. Clearly, the NU Foundation is on board. The Foundation is ALL boosters and they are picking up the other 12 odd million of the tab he, the City of Lincoln, and the rec program are not.

You're missing the entire point here. Nobody has come out, anywhere and said "NU is going to have D-1 hockey sooner than later " or, words to that effect (well, actually, the press here has, but.....). This is all about the clear and obvious fact that all these things I've mentioned, from a facilities standpoint, are steps that would have to occur for it to actually happen. Name me another BCS conference school other than Nebraska that is currently building a hockey rink other than Penn State. And the Huskers are building a stand alone dual rink arena and the bigger arena going up right next to this dual rink facility just so happens to have been prepped for ice in case they need it there, too. What other possible motivation for this could there be?

I'm reading between the lines here quite a bit. That's why I said earlier in the thread, "If it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck, and sounds like a duck, it's a duck".

If Nebraska and/or it's booster operation doesn't have this in the back of their mind at some level they are sure doing a Grade A, First Class impersonation of a somebody that does.

I ask you, forget about Title IX or the monetary aspect for a minute. Throw those out for a second. If I told you Nebraska was building these facilities, what would YOU infer from it? Particularly in light of the recent advent of the Big 10 hockey conference, which, by the way, is launching with only 6 teams.

You don't build facilities for the heck of it. To me, this is a simple case of 2 + 2 = 4. I think it might be a couple three years away but I think this is going to happen at some point in the not too terribly distant future. Eric Olsen, formerly of the Lincoln Journal Star, now of the Associated Press and stationed in Lincoln, wrote that he thought UNL would go D-1 in hockey within 4-6 years, tops, the day of Shawn Eichorst's public introduction press conference in December.

Hell, I could be wrong about all of this, but I don't think I am.

SteveP
01-24-2013, 08:01 AM
That's something of the conjecture part of this on my part. Clearly, John Breslow wants us to have an arena. He kicked in 7 million bucks of his own cash to make this happen and they're sticking his name on it.

$7M?? What a piker! :p :D

huskermavfanchuck
01-24-2013, 12:03 PM
Actually, Red Cows reasoning is a lot closer to reality than ANYTHING you've spit out. Let's start with the fact that the last DI sport cut by UNL was men's swimming and diving. Gymnastics had been talked about ages ago as a possibility, but that talk hasn't had any legs for a long time, after the NCAA did some tweaks in their rules to attempt to help some sports that were losing membership, including men's gymnastics.

Where have the University of Nebraska regents EVER said anything about tearing down the Ice Box? They've been planning Innovation Campus (for those that don't know, the Ice Box is on what used to be the Nebraska State Fairgrounds, and those grounds have been given to UNL to use to build a tech/business park to spur research dollars) with the Ice Box planned as a permanent/long-term resident of that area. At the time the move of the State Fair happened, the Lincoln Stars were in the first few years of a 25-year lease for the building. Even though ownership of that lease transferred from the Nebraska State Fair Board to UNL, the ownership of the Stars said publicly that UNL had told them they planned to honor the lease, and Chancellor Perlman indicated the same.

So please, give me links to show me where those indications are wrong. I can tell you that the Lincoln Journal Star reported on the information regarding the Ice Box, and I have seen no rumblings about eliminating other sports at UNL anywhere. Heck, in the B1G, most schools have a lot MORE sports sponsored than we do, and with extra money coming in once we're a full member via the TV agreements, it's likely we're going to have extra to look at funding different sports. Considering that, by that time, the major projects going on right now will be done, there won't be a lot to look at in specific regarding facilities. (Notwithstanding the fact that Red Cows already showed that much of the money for the projects is being provided outside of UNL's yearly athletic budget anyway.)

I still think it's a matter of when, not if. But I've also said I could easily see them waiting until the dust settles on the current projects and UNL starts getting their full revenue share from the conference before they consider adding hockey, or any other sport. I could actually see men's and women's hockey, men's and women's lacrosse, and men's soccer all as viable possibilities in the future (and potentially a women's sport that I'm not aware of/not thinking of right now, potentially to offset men's soccer). Regardless, it's an exciting time in Nebraska, for all 3 DI schools. Love what UNO is doing with all of their moves over the last few years, and can't wait to see what the future brings for all 3!

Edit: Sorry, this post was in response to unofan's post above. Sorry for any confusion. :)

4four4
01-24-2013, 04:03 PM
That's something of the conjecture part of this on my part. Clearly, John Breslow wants us to have an arena. He kicked in 7 million bucks of his own cash to make this happen and they're sticking his name on it. Clearly, the NU Foundation is on board. The Foundation is ALL boosters and they are picking up the other 12 odd million of the tab he, the City of Lincoln, and the rec program are not.

You're missing the entire point here. Nobody has come out, anywhere and said "NU is going to have D-1 hockey sooner than later " or, words to that effect (well, actually, the press here has, but.....). This is all about the clear and obvious fact that all these things I've mentioned, from a facilities standpoint, are steps that would have to occur for it to actually happen. Name me another BCS conference school other than Nebraska that is currently building a hockey rink other than Penn State. And the Huskers are building a stand alone dual rink arena and the bigger arena going up right next to this dual rink facility just so happens to have been prepped for ice in case they need it there, too. What other possible motivation for this could there be?

I'm reading between the lines here quite a bit. That's why I said earlier in the thread, "If it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck, and sounds like a duck, it's a duck".

If Nebraska and/or it's booster operation doesn't have this in the back of their mind at some level they are sure doing a Grade A, First Class impersonation of a somebody that does.

I ask you, forget about Title IX or the monetary aspect for a minute. Throw those out for a second. If I told you Nebraska was building these facilities, what would YOU infer from it? Particularly in light of the recent advent of the Big 10 hockey conference, which, by the way, is launching with only 6 teams.

You don't build facilities for the heck of it. To me, this is a simple case of 2 + 2 = 4. I think it might be a couple three years away but I think this is going to happen at some point in the not too terribly distant future. Eric Olsen, formerly of the Lincoln Journal Star, now of the Associated Press and stationed in Lincoln, wrote that he thought UNL would go D-1 in hockey within 4-6 years, tops, the day of Shawn Eichorst's public introduction press conference in December.

Hell, I could be wrong about all of this, but I don't think I am.

I don't think you are wrong. ;)