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WeAreNDHockey
12-24-2012, 03:12 PM
UND has been too much of a powerhouse for too long for it to just start to fade away. As long as they keep getting fans to go to games and good coaching, players will want to go and play there. The university has a very successful history of putting players into the NHL and I imagine that is the ultimate goal of college players.

I would imagine fans of Michigan Tech thought similar things in 1975 when they were winning yet another championship. In 1980 when they were winning the GLI for the bazillionth time in a row, they figured the good times in Detroit would continue long into the future as well, I'm betting. The same could be said of Lake State when they won the NCAAs for the third time in 7 seasons in 1994. And they did that while both Michigan State and Michigan were either developing, or in the case of MSU HAD developed, championship caliber programs.

I would not have believed it if you told me that Lake State would make just two more NCAAs after winning it all in '94 and then fail to register even one more trip in the next 16 years. This season will probably make 17. Things change. I don't see how anyone can say with much confidence how things will look in 5, 10 or 20 years.

Is North Dakota more likely to maintain an NCAA tournament caliber team than some of the other top programs of days gone by are to return to the mountaintop? Probably. The NHL connection, something that wasn't nearly as evident in the glory days of MTU, will help a lot. But with as much change as we've seen in the last generation or two, and as fluid as the college sports landscape is right now, I'm not certain about any of it.

davyd83
12-24-2012, 04:09 PM
To the casual observer, please explain the difference between Minnesota Duluth and Minnesota Mankato? Between Western Michigan and Northern Michigan? Between Miami and Bowling Green? Between Colorado College and Michigan Tech? And if you have to explain, your "brand" may not be a strong as you think. Outside the core college hockey world, if you're counting on the team to be named later as the top of you're marquee, you're in trouble. Don't count on a matchup of North Dakota and St Cloud or Nebraska Omaha and Western Muchigan to pack the house at the hockey history rich Target Centet.

Biddco
12-24-2012, 04:30 PM
To the casual observer, please explain the difference between Minnesota Duluth and Minnesota Mankato? Between Western Michigan and Northern Michigan? Between Miami and Bowling Green? Between Colorado College and Michigan Tech? And if you have to explain, your "brand" may not be a strong as you think. Outside the core college hockey world, if you're counting on the team to be named later as the top of you're marquee, you're in trouble. Don't count on a matchup of North Dakota and St Cloud or Nebraska Omaha and Western Muchigan to pack the house at the hockey history rich Target Centet.1. Won a national championship and has more history than MSU. 2. On the up and up now and has a larger school and or fanbase than NMU. 3. Wins now and the other hasn't won in 20 plus years. 4. Wins now and hasn't won in 30 years. As with any new conference brand will take time to build.

darker98
12-24-2012, 04:32 PM
I would imagine fans of Michigan Tech thought similar things in 1975 when they were winning yet another championship. In 1980 when they were winning the GLI for the bazillionth time in a row, they figured the good times in Detroit would continue long into the future as well, I'm betting. The same could be said of Lake State when they won the NCAAs for the third time in 7 seasons in 1994. And they did that while both Michigan State and Michigan were either developing, or in the case of MSU HAD developed, championship caliber programs.

I would not have believed it if you told me that Lake State would make just two more NCAAs after winning it all in '94 and then fail to register even one more trip in the next 16 years. This season will probably make 17. Things change. I don't see how anyone can say with much confidence how things will look in 5, 10 or 20 years.

Is North Dakota more likely to maintain an NCAA tournament caliber team than some of the other top programs of days gone by are to return to the mountaintop? Probably. The NHL connection, something that wasn't nearly as evident in the glory days of MTU, will help a lot. But with as much change as we've seen in the last generation or two, and as fluid as the college sports landscape is right now, I'm not certain about any of it.
I think longevity and tradition of the program at North Dakota save it from that fate.

darker98
12-24-2012, 04:35 PM
To the casual observer, please explain the difference between Minnesota Duluth and Minnesota Mankato? Between Western Michigan and Northern Michigan? Between Miami and Bowling Green? Between Colorado College and Michigan Tech? And if you have to explain, your "brand" may not be a strong as you think. Outside the core college hockey world, if you're counting on the team to be named later as the top of you're marquee, you're in trouble. Don't count on a matchup of North Dakota and St Cloud or Nebraska Omaha and Western Muchigan to pack the house at the hockey history rich Target Centet.
I think a game between North Dakota and St Cloud will outdraw the whole nWCHA tourney.

Osorojo
12-24-2012, 06:31 PM
I think a game between North Dakota and St Cloud will outdraw the whole nWCHA tourney.

The Cornell - Michigan game in MSG produced more revenue for each participating team than the SCSU-UND will for both teams combined. It's the economy, ***pid.

Tipsy McStagger
12-24-2012, 07:01 PM
The Cornell - Michigan game in MSG produced more revenue for each participating team than the SCSU-UND will for both teams combined. It's the economy, ***pid.

Are you really dumb enough to think either of those teams has anywhere near the following the North Dakota hockey program does? Great job cherry-picking the one Cornell game that made their program money though.

darker98
12-24-2012, 07:50 PM
The Cornell - Michigan game in MSG produced more revenue for each participating team than the SCSU-UND will for both teams combined. It's the economy, ***pid.
He's talking about a playoff game at the Target Center not generating revenue because we are no names.

jjmc85
12-24-2012, 08:20 PM
;5580484']Who is the biggest name in the future WCHA that would have kept UND in it. You use the argument that there are no big name schools in the NCHC, but at least Miami and Western Mich are better known than UAA and Mankato.

There are no big names in either. That's kind of my point. It seems pretty stupid to me to say "We have no big name teams in this conference, let's fix this by making another conference of mostly DII and DIII teams, along with a MAC team or two."

If BC and Notre Dame had joined, there's a completely different story. North Dakota is replacing good B1G hockey schools with good ACC hockey schools. Thankfully for Hockey East fans, BC didn't leave.


It is, that's why it was never a serious consideration by either. The thing that worries me most are some of these faint rumblings that the B1G is considering BC as a potential expansion candidate as a way to lure ND as an all-sports member. BC and ND leaving would be a major blow to HE, and it would be a tragedy to the sport if BC and BU were not in the same conference.

If this happens, I really hope BU doesn't go all North Dakota on the rest of Hockey East.

davyd83
12-24-2012, 09:30 PM
1. Won a national championship and has more history than MSU. 2. On the up and up now and has a larger school and or fanbase than NMU. 3. Wins now and the other hasn't won in 20 plus years. 4. Wins now and hasn't won in 30 years. As with any new conference brand will take time to build.

You're telling me what you and I and most on this board already know. We are already ardent college hockey fans. But to most of America, well, you'd have to explain.

burd
12-24-2012, 09:37 PM
If BC and Notre Dame had joined, there's a completely different story.

If. But again, who with any credibility at all even suggested that BC would leave HE for the NCHC?

davyd83
12-24-2012, 09:48 PM
I think a game between North Dakota and St Cloud will outdraw the whole nWCHA tourney.

A North Dakota inter squad scrimmage at the Ralph could do that. There's no doubt the nWCHA will struggle to fill seats at the X or in Grand Rapids or Green Bay. Never for a moment said they wouldn't. The bottom line is about the power play. With Bemidji forced into the WCHA by Minnesota politics (vote 'em in BS support their entry or risk funding for your new rink or football stadium or renovations) and Minnesota and UW leaving for the Big 10, North Dakota and Denver risked having the DII schools over ride their wishes. Those bigger budget programs can now align with "like minded" programs like CC, Miami and Western and UNO who have only recently gotten greater commitments from their institutions. It will be interesting to see how long Duluth rides the new arena novelty and National Championship and St Cloud, their rink renovations now that their travel budgets take big increases and other expenses rise.

AnchorsAway
12-24-2012, 10:33 PM
There are no big names in either. That's kind of my point. It seems pretty stupid to me to say "We have no big name teams in this conference, let's fix this by making another conference of mostly DII and DIII teams, along with a MAC team or two."

If BC and Notre Dame had joined, there's a completely different story. North Dakota is replacing good B1G hockey schools with good ACC hockey schools. Thankfully for Hockey East fans, BC didn't leave.



If this happens, I really hope BU doesn't go all North Dakota on the rest of Hockey East.

Let me preface this by acknowledging that none of the nWCHA teams will likely ever sprout a national following, however I think the predicted attendance woes are a little overblown....many of the attendance figures of the nWCHA teams are low, but many of these programs have shown the ability to draw higher numbers when their programs are successful, as many of them were 10-30 years ago....over time they got squeezed out of perenially contending in their conferences due to having budgets that paled in comparison to their peers, however sticking the programs who all have the same plight into a top-to-bottom congruent conference regarding budgets, school sizes, etc. will give these programs more of a "fair shake" at contending and winning conference titles, and actually having a feasable shot at gaining the NCAA bid that comes with it. In terms of college football it would be like taking lower tier teams from a few of the good BCS conferences like the B1G, SEC, Big 12 (say Minnesota, Illinois, Northwestern, Ole Miss, Arkansas, Mississippi St, Iowa State, Kansas) and throwing them into a conference with a BCS automatic invite....are those teams going to automatically start contending for national titles? Absolutely not, and I don't expect LSSU, MTU, etc. to reach the heights they once saw, but I do expect attendance bumps at the successful nWCHA schools, because their fan bases once again feel like they have a legitimate "piece of the action" while they have been more or less on the sidelines of the college hockey landscape for years now.

darker98
12-24-2012, 10:41 PM
It will be interesting to see how long Duluth rides the new arena novelty and National Championship and St Cloud, their rink renovations now that their travel budgets take big increases and other expenses rise.
Especially since I don't think either makes a profit now.

Biddco
12-24-2012, 11:10 PM
Especially since I don't think either makes a profit now.

Pretty sure UMD makes a profit.

darker98
12-24-2012, 11:13 PM
Pretty sure UMD makes a profit.

I stand corrected. I didn't bother to look it up.

WeAreNDHockey
12-25-2012, 12:23 AM
I think longevity and tradition of the program at North Dakota save it from that fate.

Except you are missing the whole point of the post. John MacInnes coached MTU for nearly 30 season, had a losing record only twice, and won 3 NCAA titles. All three of them, by the way, when only 4 teams made the tournament. His next to last team made a Frozen Four (in an 8 team tourney). It was his record that Ron Mason broke for all time wins. Those are things that define tradition and longevity. Yet where has Tech been since the early 80s? Out of the NCAAs every single year. Things change in college sports. Sometimes quite radically. As a Notre Dame fan, I know this as well as anyone. No one would have believed ANYONE who said Notre Dame football was going to be lucky to be mediocre for nearly two full decades in 1993. Yet that they were, with at least 3 losses for 18 straight seasons. I'm willing to bet the rent that one of the college hockey teams that has been good for most or all of the last 20-25 years will not be a powerhouse 5 years from now. That's about the only thing I am sure of.

Tipsy McStagger
12-25-2012, 12:28 AM
I stand corrected. I didn't bother to look it up.

Thanks for your contribution.

darker98
12-25-2012, 12:39 AM
Thanks for your contribution.

You're welcome.

Ralph Baer
12-25-2012, 12:53 AM
Are you really dumb enough to think either of those teams has anywhere near the following the North Dakota hockey program does? Great job cherry-picking the one Cornell game that made their program money though.

I really really hate to defend the Cornell, but it would not surprise me if their following was at least the equal of North Dakota's. The schools are about the same size, and hockey is Cornell's number one sport. Most of their fans like to stay on their own board, where they can stroke their egos uninterrupted by others, rather than come here.