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PrezdeJohnson09
11-15-2012, 10:44 AM
http://www.uscho.com/2012/11/15/atlantic-hockey-talking-with-four-schools-interested-in-joining-commissioner-says/

Chris Lerch reporting there have been discussions between Saint A's and Atlantic Hockey on bringing the Hawks in once UConn leaves for Hockey East.

wickfan
11-15-2012, 11:08 AM
Umm ????

NUProf
11-15-2012, 11:39 AM
Umm ????

How does that fit into the regulations concerning who is allowed to play in DI?

I haven't looked lately, but it seems to me that there are a ton of hoops to be jumped through

PrezdeJohnson09
11-15-2012, 11:40 AM
How does that fit into the regulations concerning who is allowed to play in DI?

I haven't looked lately, but it seems to me that there are a ton of hoops to be jumped through

Is it because there is no Division II championship they can find a loophole?

There are how many Division II schools playing Division I hockey? atleast 10 correct? (I counted 15 including Lindenwood for the women's Division I.)

Dyce
11-15-2012, 11:52 AM
Is it because there is no Division II championship they can find a loophole?

There are how many Division II schools playing Division I hockey? atleast 10 correct?

That's what I'm guessing. The NCAA said that it still wouldn't be a fan of any more one-sport play-ups once the moratorium ended, but the lack of an available championship seems like a pretty good reason to make an exception.

Humanoid
11-15-2012, 12:06 PM
That's what I'm guessing. The NCAA said that it still wouldn't be a fan of any more one-sport play-ups once the moratorium ended, but the lack of an available championship seems like a pretty good reason to make an exception.

Our resident blogger for Bentley hockey breaks it down a little bit:
http://excalibursportspage.com/2012/11/14/aha-potential-expansion-st-anselm/

Here's how it works:
St. A currently plays as part of a D3 conference, but they cannot take part in the D3 conference tournament or national tournament because they're a D2 team. As a result, they take part in the NE-10 conference tournament that's held with the four or five other teams that actually play a D2 schedule. Since there is no D2 national championship sponsored, any Division 2 school can play up one division as long as its not sponsored (and then be grandfathered in). In essence, if there were no D3, all D3 schools could compete at D2. Because there's no D2, a D2 school can move up without penalty.

No D3 schools can move anymore. The last team allowed was RIT, and the RIT womens team was allowed to jump this year ONLY because the mens team was already moved up to D1. So they're the last team to ever move to D1 from D3.

Because St. A is a D2 program, they can move to D1 without incurring a penalty for Title IX. They are not forced to increase spending or add a women's program, although it's likely the women's team would move to the CHA, which is adminstered by the AHA and is essentially the female's equivalent (there are a number of women's schools in the CHA that compete in AHA like Robert Morris, mercyhurst, and RIT). They would not need to increase money to start the program or add scholarships, since there is no scholarship minimum as part of the AHA. IN fact, RIT does not offer hockey scholarships, and UConn didn't offer them until they announced they would move to Hockey East. Plus there's no scholarships at service academies. So St. A can move without penalty or Title IX threat at all because they dont need to increase spending.

They would not affect scheduling since the replacement for Uconn could play int he eastern scheduling. The two pods (east vs. west) play teams in their own pod three times but play opposing pod teams twice over the same weekend. The only added expense for St. A is travel, which I don't think they're taking note of since it would be a substantial increase. Travel costs do not have an effect on Title IX.

PrezdeJohnson09
11-15-2012, 01:32 PM
Our resident blogger for Bentley hockey breaks it down a little bit:
http://excalibursportspage.com/2012/11/14/aha-potential-expansion-st-anselm/

Here's how it works:
St. A currently plays as part of a D3 conference, but they cannot take part in the D3 conference tournament or national tournament because they're a D2 team. As a result, they take part in the NE-10 conference tournament that's held with the four or five other teams that actually play a D2 schedule. Since there is no D2 national championship sponsored, any Division 2 school can play up one division as long as its not sponsored (and then be grandfathered in). In essence, if there were no D3, all D3 schools could compete at D2. Because there's no D2, a D2 school can move up without penalty.

No D3 schools can move anymore. The last team allowed was RIT, and the RIT womens team was allowed to jump this year ONLY because the mens team was already moved up to D1. So they're the last team to ever move to D1 from D3.

Because St. A is a D2 program, they can move to D1 without incurring a penalty for Title IX. They are not forced to increase spending or add a women's program, although it's likely the women's team would move to the CHA, which is adminstered by the AHA and is essentially the female's equivalent (there are a number of women's schools in the CHA that compete in AHA like Robert Morris, mercyhurst, and RIT). They would not need to increase money to start the program or add scholarships, since there is no scholarship minimum as part of the AHA. IN fact, RIT does not offer hockey scholarships, and UConn didn't offer them until they announced they would move to Hockey East. Plus there's no scholarships at service academies. So St. A can move without penalty or Title IX threat at all because they dont need to increase spending.

They would not affect scheduling since the replacement for Uconn could play int he eastern scheduling. The two pods (east vs. west) play teams in their own pod three times but play opposing pod teams twice over the same weekend. The only added expense for St. A is travel, which I don't think they're taking note of since it would be a substantial increase. Travel costs do not have an effect on Title IX.

While the blogger certainly has some knowledge on the NCAA structure...he/she certainly didn't do their homework on how successful St. A's has been "beating up on D-III teams."

They've been a .500 hockey team in the ECAC East for a number of years now.

Upon further review courtesy of CrosbyNU63, St. Anselm's record in the ECAC East since 2000 is: 72-93-21

And against the 14-time defending ECAC East regular season champions, they are 1-10.

jerrynu26
11-15-2012, 02:31 PM
While the blogger certainly has some knowledge on the NCAA structure...he/she certainly didn't do their homework on how successful St. A's has been "beating up on D-III teams."

They've been a .500 hockey team in the ECAC East for a number of years now.

Upon further review courtesy of CrosbyNU63, St. Anselm's record in the ECAC East is: 72-93-21

And against the 14-time defending ECAC East regular season champions, they are 1-10.

ANd that part about winning a conference championship, umm, yeah. since 1999, they are 7-7 in those games.

bakdraft21
11-15-2012, 04:14 PM
Our resident blogger for Bentley hockey breaks it down a little bit:
http://excalibursportspage.com/2012/11/14/aha-potential-expansion-st-anselm/

Here's how it works:
St. A currently plays as part of a D3 conference, but they cannot take part in the D3 conference tournament or national tournament because they're a D2 team. As a result, they take part in the NE-10 conference tournament that's held with the four or five other teams that actually play a D2 schedule. Since there is no D2 national championship sponsored, any Division 2 school can play up one division as long as its not sponsored (and then be grandfathered in). In essence, if there were no D3, all D3 schools could compete at D2. Because there's no D2, a D2 school can move up without penalty.

No D3 schools can move anymore. The last team allowed was RIT, and the RIT womens team was allowed to jump this year ONLY because the mens team was already moved up to D1. So they're the last team to ever move to D1 from D3.

Because St. A is a D2 program, they can move to D1 without incurring a penalty for Title IX. They are not forced to increase spending or add a women's program, although it's likely the women's team would move to the CHA, which is adminstered by the AHA and is essentially the female's equivalent (there are a number of women's schools in the CHA that compete in AHA like Robert Morris, mercyhurst, and RIT). They would not need to increase money to start the program or add scholarships, since there is no scholarship minimum as part of the AHA. IN fact, RIT does not offer hockey scholarships, and UConn didn't offer them until they announced they would move to Hockey East. Plus there's no scholarships at service academies. So St. A can move without penalty or Title IX threat at all because they dont need to increase spending.

They would not affect scheduling since the replacement for Uconn could play int he eastern scheduling. The two pods (east vs. west) play teams in their own pod three times but play opposing pod teams twice over the same weekend. The only added expense for St. A is travel, which I don't think they're taking note of since it would be a substantial increase. Travel costs do not have an effect on Title IX. There was one??

joecct
11-15-2012, 04:34 PM
Is it because there is no Division II championship they can find a loophole?

There are how many Division II schools playing Division I hockey? atleast 10 correct? (I counted 15 including Lindenwood for the women's Division I.)Cripes Prez,

How many times have I posted on this topic? To wit....


20.4.1 Multidivision Classification. A member of Division II or Division III may have a sport classified in Division I, provided the sport was so classified during the 2010-11 academic year. Such a classification shall continue until the institution fails to conduct the sport in Division I in any following academic year. (Revised: 8/9/07, 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

In other words, if you were not playing up in the 10-11 season, you can't do that anymore.... And Norwich can't play in Division I ice hockey until it gets to Division II. That process takes a minimum of 3 years (D-II By-Law 20.3) and has an invitation from a D-II multisport conference (NE-10??) to play....


20.5.1 eligibility for reclassification. A member of Division II may petition to change its membership to Division I subject to the following prerequisites: (Revised: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
(a) The institution shall have been an active Division II member for the preceding five years;
(b) The institution shall be in compliance with all Division I minimum sports sponsorship and financial aid membership requirements; and
(c) The institution shall have received a bona fide offer of membership by an active Division I multisport conference.

But for the 6 NE-10 schools not part of Hockey East or AHA, there is an option...

20.8.2 Division II options when no Division II Championship is Conducted. An active member institution that holds membership in Division II is eligible to compete in the Division I championship in those sports for which no championship is conducted in Division II. The Division II institution shall declare its intention to compete by June 1. This declaration of intent shall be effective for a minimum of three years. (Revised: 1/10/91 effective 9/1/92)
20.8.2.1 Participation in Division I Championship. To be eligible for the Division I championship in such a sport, the Division II member institution is required to meet all Division I institutional and individual eligibility requirements and may use Division I financial aid limitations in that sport as permitted under Bylaw 20.9.1.1. (Revised: 1/10/91 effective 9/1/92)
20.8.2.2 Exception for Maximum Number of Contests or Dates of Competition. A Division II member institution that is eligible for a championship in another division because there is no championship in that
sport in its membership division shall apply the maximum number of contests or dates of competition in the sport involved that applies to the division in which it declares its intention to compete.

In other words, the current non-Division I playup Northeast 10 schools may petition to be eligible for the Division I ice hockey championship (the women don't have that problem as there is a National Collegiate Championship for Division I & II). If they do, they can offer up to 18 schollys and compete in their own NE-10 league AND get an AQ into the D-I tournament (if 6 teams in the NE-10 all decide to do it).

Wishing is not going to make it happen, but there is a way to make it happen, if the administration(s) want to do it.

hawk
11-15-2012, 09:32 PM
In the past $$$ has always been the issue with St. A's because everyone claims a D1 program is much more expensive than D3. However for anyone who has ever been to Sullivan Arena it looks like a D1 facility; I not sure you could put additional seats on the other side but I bet you could get 2,500 seats in than arena. Manchester is also a good location from hockey and the MA border is only 20 miles away.

Plus/Minus
11-15-2012, 10:17 PM
However for anyone who has ever been to Sullivan Arena it looks like a D1 facility; I not sure you could put additional seats on the other side but I bet you could get 2,500 seats in than arena.

I've had the chance to tour Sullivan Arena and it is an impressive facility. It was surely built with the idea of a future expansion of the hockey program.

There is plenty of open/empty space on the back side of the rink where more seating could easily be installed. The home team locker rooms are killer. The ventilation scheme for the player's lockers is clever and well done. The press box looks professional. The ZamboniŽ garage is spacious (yeah, that's something most rinks can only dream of). A new parking area went in near the rink this past summer.

Basically, Sullivan arena is ready for D1.

hawk
11-17-2012, 08:44 AM
Attended the game between Nowich and St. A's Friday night at Sulivan Arena where the reported attendance was 1,323 (it felt like there were at least another 1,000 fans in the arena). But the arena has lot of space to put in additional seating so if they go D1 this rink could be one of the best around. I realize there were a fair number of Norwich fans at the game but the atmosphere was just like you would see in a Norwich/Middlebury, or Norwich/Plattsburgh game. The students were even standing at ice level around a portion of the rink beside the far end. I bet UVM would love to have this facility just the way it is.

jerrynu26
11-17-2012, 09:48 AM
Attended the game between Nowich and St. A's Friday night at Sulivan Arena where the reported attendance was 1,323 (it felt like there were at least another 1,000 fans in the arena). But the arena has lot of space to put in additional seating so if they go D1 this rink could be one of the best around. I realize there were a fair number of Norwich fans at the game but the atmosphere was just like you would see in a Norwich/Middlebury, or Norwich/Plattsburgh game. The students were even standing at ice level around a portion of the rink beside the far end. I bet UVM would love to have this facility just the way it is.

No, they would not.

PrezdeJohnson09
05-18-2013, 12:07 PM
A little more fuel to this story...

http://www.uscho.com/atlantic-hockey-blog/2013/05/18/thoughts-on-rhode-island-and-st-anselm-as-possible-aha-members/

Saint Anselm expressing heavy interest in moving up to Division I and joining Atlantic Hockey.

That could cause a chain-reaction of events in the Division III world. What will Saint Michael's do if that were to happen?

Do the Saint A's women follow suit and does Holy Cross finally pull its Division I in name only women's team out of the ECAC East and start putting some resources into it to compete in D-I?

joecct
05-18-2013, 02:30 PM
A little more fuel to this story...

http://www.uscho.com/atlantic-hockey-blog/2013/05/18/thoughts-on-rhode-island-and-st-anselm-as-possible-aha-members/

Saint Anselm expressing heavy interest in moving up to Division I and joining Atlantic Hockey.

That could cause a chain-reaction of events in the Division III world. What will Saint Michael's do if that were to happen?

Do the Saint A's women follow suit and does Holy Cross finally pull its Division I in name only women's team out of the ECAC East and start putting some resources into it to compete in D-I?To clarify, St. A's would probably stay @ D-II for all sports but use the "no championship offered in your Division" by-law to play @ the D-I level. The women could yank Holy Cross with them (remember the women's have a combined D-I/II National Collegiate Championship) to compete in D-I land.

St. Mike's would then be a fish out of water and could then join the NE-10 league and leave the ECAC-E with 8 teams (6 after the LEC compels USM and UMB to join the MASCAC). Or they could drop the entire athletic program to D-III and stay out of the post season in all sports during the "cleansing" period.

Steve Day
05-18-2013, 02:41 PM
St. Mike's would then be a fish out of water and could then join the NE-10 league and leave the ECAC-E with 8 teams (6 after the LEC compels USM and UMB to join the MASCAC). Or they could drop the entire athletic program to D-III and stay out of the post season in all sports during the "cleansing" period.

What is the LEC

PrezdeJohnson09
05-18-2013, 02:44 PM
What is the LEC

Little East Conference which has members in the MASCAC for hockey,

hockeyfan77
05-19-2013, 11:26 AM
(6 after the LEC compels USM and UMB to join the MASCAC).



Not going to happen, the LEC wants nothing to do with a hockey league....

hawkhockey
05-19-2013, 07:24 PM
A little more fuel to this story...

http://www.uscho.com/atlantic-hockey-blog/2013/05/18/thoughts-on-rhode-island-and-st-anselm-as-possible-aha-members/

Saint Anselm expressing heavy interest in moving up to Division I and joining Atlantic Hockey.

That could cause a chain-reaction of events in the Division III world. What will Saint Michael's do if that were to happen?

Do the Saint A's women follow suit and does Holy Cross finally pull its Division I in name only women's team out of the ECAC East and start putting some resources into it to compete in D-I?
Nothing is going to happen until their new President takes over in July
Talking to people involved at the College, they have rejected moving to DI
Twice in the past six years after being approached by Atlantic Hockey
And the reasons have not changed I.e. money, travel, lack of a suitable womens league , dropping football etc.
The new president is from Marian College , a DIII college with a hockey program.
Not betting on it but I see a move to D III in all sports with st. Mike.s as being a very real possibility