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fanofhockey1
09-26-2012, 05:53 PM
Haven't heard much talk about the NESCAC...thought I'd start a new thread for the new year. How do the incoming classes look? Amherst ready to make another run at it??

norm1909
09-27-2012, 02:02 PM
Haven't heard much talk about the NESCAC...thought I'd start a new thread for the new year. How do the incoming classes look? Amherst ready to make another run at it??

Stuck up.

joecct
09-27-2012, 04:32 PM
Think about how many #1 goaltenders graduated. This could be a very interesting season.

neumyer
09-27-2012, 07:21 PM
See complete article by limpidus at http://nescachockey.wordpress.com/2012/09/23/which-nescacs-did-the-best-in-recruiting-for-2012-13/#comments


It is time to rate this year’s class of incoming NESCAC players! These ratings are intended to provide a rough comparative assessment of the incoming class of hockey players for each NESCAC school and give a sense as to which programs have done the best job in making up for graduation losses. Please let us know via a comment if we missed any prospects so we can add their names to the database and adjust our school-based ratings of recruits accordingly.

These ratings are based on likely impact players and are primarily a reflection of past achievements and their context (level of competition). They do not take into account intangibles or difficult-to-assess matters like potential to improve or fit with a school’s particular style of play or coaching philosophy. By their nature, they tend to be biased slightly in favor of junior hockey products as statistics are readily available and tell a more reliable and consistent story than do prep hockey stats.

The top two rated incoming classes—Amherst and Middlebury—are very close but we’re going to go with Amherst based on the extraordinary quality of its incoming class. If this were a numbers-based decision, the no. 1 spot would go to Middlebury (14 versus 8) but Amherst, with a definite edge in experience and quality of its recruits, has perhaps the strongest incoming class since we have been monitoring the NESCAC recruiting process (three premier forwards, the best goal tender in New England prep hockey, and two solid defensemen).

Amherst’s incoming class should go a long way toward helping the Amherst faithful get over 2012 graduation losses, with several impact forwards and a superb goalie. If anything, Middlebury has recruited even more aggressively than Amherst due to the gaping holes in its line-up caused by the loss of almost all of its offense to graduation. Most noticeable among the Middlebury recruits is the group of four outstanding new defensemen, several of whom look to be versatile enough to play up front if needed.

Falling behind the Amherst and Middlebury at the no. 3 spot is Trinity, with several good new scorers and an excellent goalie. There is not much to distinguish between the no. 4 ranked class (Conn College) from the no. 8 ranked class (Williams) or the three schools in between (Wesleyan, Tufts, and Bowdoin) except for things like experience.

Not too surprisingly, Colby, with an interim coach in charge of recruiting, struggled mightily in the recruiting wars and grabbed the last spot. More surprising is the somewhat poor recruiting effort put forth by Bowdoin, which normally does very well on the recruiting front but has its weakest incoming class in several years, with a very young group of recruits and only one junior product. Interesting was the Hamilton approach of bringing in a large number of recruits (14) but with only a small number of clear impact players (3). With numbers like that, it is easy to imagine that there could be some gems in that large Hamilton crowd that cannot be spotted based on limited examination of things like stats.

Speaking more broadly, this year saw a strong move in the direction of junior hockey products although New England prep school hockey still leads the way. The total number of prep school products is 48 or 53% of the total. This represents a decline of more than 8% from 2010-11 when prep hockey produced 61.4% of the total. The New England Preparatory School Athletic Council (NEPSAC) teams leads the way among the prep school leagues, producing 19 would-be NESCAC players, followed by the Independent School League (ISL) with 16, with the Founders League bringing up at the rear and falling by more than 50% to 7 (down from 15 in 2010-11). The remaining six prep school grads are from independent prep schools (Northwood) or prep school leagues that are not based in New England. The most represented prep schools are: Belmont Hill (6), Exeter and St. Sebastian’s at 5 each, Hotchkiss and Taft at 4 each, and Avon Old Farms, Gunnery, Northfield Mount Hermon, and Northwood at 3 apiece (these numbers include several graduates of these schools who also played junior hockey after completing their prep school careers or who are transfers).

Junior hockey produced 38 of the new players or 41% of the total, a marked increase from 2010-11 when these numbers stood at 22 and 25% respectively. The EJHL, which had an aberrational year in 2011, falling from 15 to 5 names, zoomed back to the top, producing 19 recruits this year. Other junior hockey leagues represented on the list of NESCAC recruits include: the Central Junior Hockey League (5); the North American Hockey League (NAHL) (4); the Ontario Junior Hockey League (3); the British Columbia Hockey League (BCHL) (3); the Atlantic Junior Hockey League (1); the Alberta Junior Hockey League (1), the International Junior Hockey League (IJHL); and an unaffiliated junior team (1).

The data suggests continued diversity in recruiting practices, with Bowdoin, in a break with previous practices, barely touching junior hockey (just one and he is actually a transfer) and going with younger-than-usual players. Conversely, Middlebury, which has had very little junior representation for the past few years, dug deep into the ranks of junior hockey, bringing in four high-quality recruits from junior hockey teams. All schools, except for Bowdoin and Wesleyan (each has just 1 incoming junior player), will have a healthy complement of junior hockey products in their freshman classes, with Williams and Hamilton at 6 each, Tufts and Amherst at 5 each, Middlebury at 4, and Colby, Connecticut College, and Trinity at 3 apiece.

The only product of high school hockey is Middlebury’s Zach Haggerty, who was named the Vermont player of the year for the 2011-12 season.

Finally, there are 3 known transfers (3% of the total): one D1 transfer (Dom Jancaterino from Sacred Heart to Hamilton at the semester break in the 2011-12 season; one intra-NESCAC transfer (Nick Vassos, who went from Bowdoin to Hamilton at the semester break last season but did not play at all); and one ECAC West transfer (Casey Fratkin, who went from Elmira to Wesleyan at the semester break last season and immediately became a regular for the Cardinals). Bowdoin also gained a D1 transfer in goalie Max Fenkell, who started out at Colgate, but is being counted as a junior hockey product for purposes of our data due to the fact that in spent a year between Colgate and Bowdoin in the BCHL.

And there is one important transfer out of the NESCAC in Nik Tasiopoulos, last season’s second-leading scorer in the NESCAC, who has transferred from Wesleyan to Babson of the ECAC East.

As usual, several of the teams have potential diamonds in the rough in the form of younger, undeveloped players from unconventional sources. Bowdoin leads the way in this category, with two players who missed important parts of their high school careers (Johnny Malusa and Kevin Perron) and a third (Blake Cormier), who spent his high school years playing in obscurity at the Middlesex School, known more for being a pipeline to Harvard for the sons and daughters of the elite than being a developer of college hockey players. Potential diamonds in the rough for Middlebury include: Vermont high school star Zach Haggerty and Washington, D.C., area prep star Max Greenwald. Last year’s diamonds in the rough were few in number, consisting only of Boston College High School’s Mike Cashman for Amherst and Randolph (NJ) High School’s Dan Fulham for Middlebury.

1. Amherst (6):

Forwards:

Conor Brown (Ottawa Jr. Senators, CJHL): A CJHL all-star, Brown was a D1 prospect who scored at more than a point-a-game for two consecutive seasons, with continued development and improvement during his three-year career in juniors – at 6-2 and 190 lbs, he has excellent size and should start contributing to the Amherst offense quickly

Brendan Burke (St. Sebastian’s, ISL): Burke has good size at 6-1 and 195 lbs and put up solid numbers on a superb St Sebastian’s team in the past two seasons – he was on the NHL’s Central Scouting list and a definite D1 prospect although his scoring dropped off noticeably in his senior year

Topher Flanagan (Lloydminster Bobcats, AJHL): Flanagan’s numbers were not quite as gaudy as Brown’s and he is much smaller at 5-8 and 160 lbs but he showed dramatic improvement in his three-year junior career, finishing as the no. 1 scorer on his AJHL team and scoring at just short of a point-a-game pace in his final season (29-27-56 in 60 games)

Defense:

Theo Hannah (Carleton Place Canadians, OJHL): Hannah has great size (6-3 and 200 lbs) and a steady, if not spectacular, junior career behind him as a defensive defenseman

Kevin Ryder (Ottawa Jr. Senators, CJHL): Like three other incoming Amherst players, Ryder has three years of junior hockey experience under his belt – he is smallish at 5-11 but has more offensive upside than Hannah – he and fellow Amherst recruit Brown were teammates for two years with the Ottawa Jr. Senators

Goalie:

Dave Cunningham (Belmont Hill, ISL): Cunningham seems to have it all, with superb numbers (a .943 save percentage and a 1.64 GAA as a senior) and good size (6-0 and 185 lbs) – was the top prep school goalie in New England according to many sources – he likely fell to D3 because he is a two-sport athlete who also excels at baseball and will be able to play both sports at Amherst – it will be hard for him to top Jonathan La Rose’s amazing performance as the D3 PoY in 2011-12 but Cunningham has all the tools to be the next great Amherst goalie – the only possible knock against him as that he is inexperienced, with no post-grad or junior experience

Others: Patrick Arena (F) (Taft, Founders); Louis Xavier Reed (Boston Bandits, EJHL)

jimmy d
10-17-2012, 09:07 PM
Thanks, Neumyer, for the link. Good article! I agree with joecct; should be a very interesting season. I personally am really looking forward to it. I have a premonition that MIDD will return as a force in D III hockey :D

NUProf
10-17-2012, 11:56 PM
Thanks, Neumyer, for the link. Good article! I agree with joecct; should be a very interesting season. I personally am really looking forward to it. I have a premonition that MIDD will return as a force in D III hockey :D

The Panthers lost a huge proportion of their offense to graduation, and they seem to have a lot of fixing to do...

oldredhawk1
10-18-2012, 04:40 PM
Guess things are starting out a little slowly on this thread. Should pick up in two weeks.

neumyer
10-31-2012, 09:16 AM
Practice starts tomorrow? Thursday 11-1-12, that is.

neumyer
11-08-2012, 06:27 PM
Any 2012-2013 NESCAC rosters up yet?

Crusso
11-09-2012, 07:07 AM
Amherst is the team to beat, great recruiting class normal well liked coach. Middlebury and Bowdoin will be tough also but same can't be said for their respective coaches. Hard to say after the top 3, is Colby back on track? Has Hamilton effectively rebuilt after Bazin's departure, can Williams contend again? Is Weslyan ready to make a push for a place among the top 4? NESCAC is really a great conference. Playoff format favors a hot goalie at the right time, so watch gaoaltending as the season progresses, tyhat could be the difference.

NUProf
11-09-2012, 09:53 AM
Amherst is the team to beat, great recruiting class normal well liked coach. Middlebury and Bowdoin will be tough also but same can't be said for their respective coaches. Hard to say after the top 3, is Colby back on track? Has Hamilton effectively rebuilt after Bazin's departure, can Williams contend again? Is Weslyan ready to make a push for a place among the top 4? NESCAC is really a great conference. Playoff format favors a hot goalie at the right time, so watch gaoaltending as the season progresses, tyhat could be the difference.

I think Amherst lost an awful lot, especially the goalie. I think that it looks pretty wide open.

neumyer
11-12-2012, 06:39 PM
Five rosters up so far. Midd, Hamilton, Colby, Wesleyan, and Williams.

Euler18
11-12-2012, 08:20 PM
Amherst is the team to beat, great recruiting class normal well liked coach. Middlebury and Bowdoin will be tough also but same can't be said for their respective coaches.

It's true that we've all heard many good things about Coach Jack Arena's personality, but I'm not sure that being well liked is a prerequisite for being a successful coach. Coach Arena hasn't been winning because he's well liked but because the Amherst admissions office has been more cooperative as of late. In his early days he had seasons with 5 or 6 wins, and as recently as the 2002 and 2003 seasons had only 6 and 7 wins respectively. I assume that he was already a nice guy when he wasn't winnning.

Coach Terry Meagher has averaged 16.3 wins a season over 29 years and Coach Bill Beaney has averaged 19.2 wins a season over 25 years, with eight national championships. These are remarkably consistent records of achievement. The attacks on Meagher and Beaney in this forum have had little detrimental effect on the number of excellent players who continue to flock to Bowdoin and Middlebury.

I don't know Coach Beaney personally, but I admire Coach Meagher's knowledge of the game and no-nonsense approach.

Crusso
11-13-2012, 06:52 AM
You are right about Amherst admissions. Beany and Meagher attract players because of the quality of the respective schools and now they have fantastic rinks. They are also good recruiters. Beany can coach no doubt but ego is too large and he alienates many good kids and is notorious for mind games making it a tough place to play at times. When they were winning all the time it was tolerable lately more issues have come to light. Meagher is not in the same league as Beany as a Coach he also doesn't have the ego issues. he is just a different type of guy that the players never really bond with, he keeps huge rosters and is not a great judge of talent. If you have a kid that can go to any of the three schools go Amherst. That's my opinion. Do your homework and make up your own mind. If Amherst builds a new rink they will be the Nescac school of choice for sure. Parents that do their homework will figure it out.

neumyer
11-13-2012, 12:38 PM
You are right about Amherst admissions. Beany and Meagher attract players because of the quality of the respective schools and now they have fantastic rinks. They are also good recruiters. Beany can coach no doubt but ego is too large and he alienates many good kids and is notorious for mind games making it a tough place to play at times. When they were winning all the time it was tolerable lately more issues have come to light. Meagher is not in the same league as Beany as a Coach he also doesn't have the ego issues. he is just a different type of guy that the players never really bond with, he keeps huge rosters and is not a great judge of talent. If you have a kid that can go to any of the three schools go Amherst. That's my opinion. Do your homework and make up your own mind. If Amherst builds a new rink they will be the Nescac school of choice for sure. Parents that do their homework will figure it out.I might be wrong, but my guess is that Amherst could build a palace for a hockey rink and they would still draw about 200 per game after the novelty of seeing the new rink wore off. There are very few hockey fans down there and the preponderance of fans will be at the basketball game leaving hockey to play in anonymity. That's the true difference between Amherst and either Bowdoin and Middlebury.

Euler18
11-13-2012, 04:57 PM
I might be wrong,but my guess is that Amherst could build a palace for a hockey rink and they would still draw about 200 per game after the novelty of seeing the new rink wore off. There are very few hockey fans down there and the preponderance of fans will be at the basketball game leaving hockey to play in anonymity. That's the true difference between Amherst and either Bowdoin and Middlebury.

I have to agree with neumyer on this one. I was shocked at the lack of interest on the Amherst campus while I was there for the NESCAC semifinals last year despite the fact the Lord Jeffs had an excellent team and the best goalie in the country.

Euler18
11-13-2012, 05:17 PM
Meagher [...] he is just a different type of guy that the players never really bond with, he keeps huge rosters and is not a great judge of talent.

I've been following Terry Meagher's career at Bowdoin for almost thirty years, and I'm always intrigued by the comment that he's not a great judge of talent. It's true that he's not an easy guy to bond with, but in my conversations with him, I've found him to be knowledgeable and disarmingly honest. He certainly puts a good product on the ice year after year. I know that some parents complain that their sons don't play enough (as parents are wont to do), but more often than not, when I've watched these kids finally play, it's been obvious that they are not as good as their parents think they are, and that Terry's line-up decisions were the right ones.

What impresses me most about Meagher is that kids develop under his tutelage. Think of a raw talent like Mike Westerman, for example, and the improvement he made on the way to becoming an All-American as a senior. Or, more recently, how guys like Tim McGarry or Colin Downey have reached new plateaus. Thus, it doesn't surprise me that he's had twenty-two All-Americans to go with several Rookie-of-the-Year selections (which indicate a good eye for talent) over the past twenty-nine seasons.

jimmy d
11-13-2012, 05:39 PM
You are right about Amherst admissions. Beany and Meagher attract players because of the quality of the respective schools and now they have fantastic rinks. They are also good recruiters. Beany can coach no doubt but ego is too large and he alienates many good kids and is notorious for mind games making it a tough place to play at times. When they were winning all the time it was tolerable lately more issues have come to light. Meagher is not in the same league as Beany as a Coach he also doesn't have the ego issues. he is just a different type of guy that the players never really bond with, he keeps huge rosters and is not a great judge of talent. If you have a kid that can go to any of the three schools go Amherst. That's my opinion. Do your homework and make up your own mind. If Amherst builds a new rink they will be the Nescac school of choice for sure. Parents that do their homework will figure it out.

I'm wondering just where does one do this homework? At cocktail parties in CT, MA, NJ? I'd assume you'd have to get the skinny from Prep School parents, right?
Here's my opinion, most college age kids today are spoiled rotten! You see it everywhere. When they have conflicts with anyone, or are disciplined in any way they WHINE to their parents, and of course the parents always come to the rescue and always take the side of their child.
I realize that it's "old school", but I believe that a successful hockey program requires hard work and discipline. I guess that it's probably just too much to ask of today's youth. I'm sorry, but I can't take much more of this player and parent WHINING! :eek:

dreamer6
11-13-2012, 06:48 PM
I'm wondering just where does one do this homework? At cocktail parties in CT, MA, NJ? I'd assume you'd have to get the skinny from Prep School parents, right?
Here's my opinion, most college age kids today are spoiled rotten! You see it everywhere. When they have conflicts with anyone, or are disciplined in any way they WHINE to their parents, and of course the parents always come to the rescue and always take the side of their child.
I realize that it's "old school", but I believe that a successful hockey program requires hard work and discipline. I guess that it's probably just too much to ask of today's youth. I'm sorry, but I can't take much more of this player and parent WHINING! :eek:

As a parent of college-aged children (and a former prep school student) I agree with you almost 100%--I don't think most kids are spoiled rotten, but agree many are. They are in fact, products of obnoxious "helicopter" parents, who believe being involved in every aspect of their kids lives is a good thing. My kids have earned everything on their own merit, not because Mom & Dad got involved. There is a huge difference between guiding a child and trying to control their every move. I suppose these people feel they are helping their kids, but of course it couldn't be further from the truth.

I also agree discipline is crucial to a successful hockey program.

Crusso
11-13-2012, 09:55 PM
As a parent of college-aged children (and a former prep school student) I agree with you almost 100%--I don't think most kids are spoiled rotten, but agree many are. They are in fact, products of obnoxious "helicopter" parents, who believe being involved in every aspect of their kids lives is a good thing. My kids have earned everything on their own merit, not because Mom & Dad got involved. There is a huge difference between guiding a child and trying to control their every move. I suppose these people feel they are helping their kids, but of course
couldn't be further from the truth.

I also agree discipline is crucial to a successful hockey program.

Check out nescachockey.wordpress.com Beany would be let go at 99% of public companies with his behavior. Truth sometimes hurts, but times have changed this isn't 1978 anymore. Why should players expect less than good coaches with good values who treat players with respect and know how to build relationships. Any of you ever work for a great boss, would you describe that bosses behavior as similar to Beany's?