Minnesota Gophers 2012-2013: From Dinkytown to Steel City!

[SanTropez]

Re: Minnesota Gophers 2012-2013: From Dinkytown to Steel City!

My whole problem with playing Holl or Parenteau or any other D on the 4th line (or any other line) is they are D and are not forwards, that makes a big difference. I know Holl has been ok playing as a 4th line wing but it still annoys me, how about trying to put better than just ok on the 4th line wing. I'm not sure who would be better I guess, but I would had hoped some of our Freshman forward recruits could have filled that spot and they would have a more offensive upside on the 4th line.

Hammy - In your opinion why isn't Horn getting playing time and would he be better than running Holl or Parenteau out there on the 4th line? I seem to remember Horn being a goal scorer in HS and having a nice HS Hockey Tourney at the X. (not saying that automatically means success at the College level either, just saying he had offensive talent).

[mnstate0fhockey]

My whole problem with playing Holl or Parenteau or any other D on the 4th line (or any other line) is they are D and are not forwards, that makes a big difference. I know Holl has been ok playing as a 4th line wing but it still annoys me, how about trying to put better than just ok on the 4th line wing. I'm not sure who would be better I guess, but I would had hoped some of our Freshman forward recruits could have filled that spot and they would have a more offensive upside on the 4th line.

Hammy - In your opinion why isn't Horn getting playing time and would he be better than running Holl or Parenteau out there on the 4th line? I seem to remember Horn being a goal scorer in HS and having a nice HS Hockey Tourney at the X. (not saying that automatically means success at the College level either, just saying he had offensive talent).

Unfortunately, losing Connor Reilly for the season and being without Warning has put us in this position. Maybe Horn hasn't shown he's ready in practice? (I don't know) Going from HS straight to college is a big transition. Not all players can make that quick transition effectively.

[gopher wes]

Re: Minnesota Gophers 2012-2013: From Dinkytown to Steel City!

I have a problem with Parenteau playing F. Save for one or two games this year I think Holl has been playing F which, to me, is fine if they keep him at F instead of switching him back and forth(like they seem to be doing with Parenteau). That I don't have a problem with because it seems like Holl is settling into his 4th line role. Parenteau should be on D no matter what. He is wasted at F for his defensive skills much like I believe Marshall was wasted at F with his offensive skills from the blue line and moving the puck out of their own end.

I know everyone keeps mentioning Horn. I think he would have cracked the lineup sooner or later if the coaches thought he deserved it. They would not be afraid to sit Holl down if they thought Horn was was a better option so something clearly must be going on in practice that we don't get to see or hear about.

[SanTropez]

Re: Minnesota Gophers 2012-2013: From Dinkytown to Steel City!

Unfortunately, losing Connor Reilly for the season and being without Warning has put us in this position. Maybe Horn hasn't shown he's ready in practice? (I don't know) Going from HS straight to college is a big transition. Not all players can make that quick transition effectively.

Good point about Connor Reilly, he probably would have helped the offensive side of things on the 4th line and may have even moved up. It seems our (healthy) forward Freshman this year are more of a meh. Next year will be huge. (talented recruits)

Edit: Wes - I was wondering if they were playing Holl and sitting Horn because of the whole upperclassmen vs freshmen thing and it's not really an offensive talent or practice thing.

[mnstate0fhockey]

Good point about Connor Reilly, he probably would have helped the offensive side of things on the 4th line and may have even moved up. It seems our (healthy) forward Freshman this year are more of a meh. Next year will be huge. (talented recruits)

Yeah, next year is going to be a monster year for forward recruits.

[Hammy]

Re: Minnesota Gophers 2012-2013: From Dinkytown to Steel City!

Hammy - In your opinion why isn't Horn getting playing time and would he be better than running Holl or Parenteau out there on the 4th line? I seem to remember Horn being a goal scorer in HS and having a nice HS Hockey Tourney at the X. (not saying that automatically means success at the College level either, just saying he had offensive talent).

Before the season, I thought that maximizing the talent on the ice was the way to go. So if that meant playing a d-man up front, then so be it. But I am not sure I agree with that assessment now. I am starting to think it would be best to just keep guys in a role and let them get used to it. I guess if that means Holl plays forward for the rest of the year, then I can maybe go along with that. But I don't like the idea of yo-yoing players from defense to forward to defense to forward.. and so on.

The main problem is a few of the frosh forwards just aren't doing enough in those lower line roles. Nobody expected any of this year's frosh to be scorers (maybe Connor Reilly if he was healthy). First of all, the team had to spend wisely on the 2012 recruiting class because 2013 was so loaded for top forward talent in our area and we couldn't afford to miss out on it. But we also didn't need high impact frosh this year because of the veteran depth up front.

But you've got to provide more than zero points in 6 games and a -2 or 1 point in 5 games and a -3. Freshman or not, it is unacceptable. Especially for a guy like Michaelson who is getting decent size scholarship. He either needs to wake up or go back to the USHL and find a new program to play in. It is hard for me to call any frosh a bust when we aren't even at mid-season of his first year but Justin Kloos already has as many points in the USHL this year than Michaelson had all of last season! Michaelson has plateaued badly and he was a definite miss (John Hill... the gift that keeps on giving). Something needs to change with that situation. Even if it was in a lower line role, we should have brought in Kloos and told Michaelson to go play USHL again. Hindsight is 20/20 and I agreed with the decision to delay Kloos. But it is looking like a mistake now.

As for Horn, I can't entirely answer that. Ideally, a kid like that goes to USHL but they got him for next to nothing and he provides somewhat of a safety net if needed so I can understand the situation. He's a good athlete and I think he'll be a solid player down the road (albeit likely in a non-scoring capacity).

[SanTropez]

Re: Minnesota Gophers 2012-2013: From Dinkytown to Steel City!

Thanks Hammy!

Good insight as always.

[Koho]

Re: Minnesota Gophers 2012-2013: From Dinkytown to Steel City!

Before the season, I thought that maximizing the talent on the ice was the way to go. So if that meant playing a d-man up front, then so be it. But I am not sure I agree with that assessment now. I am starting to think it would be best to just keep guys in a role and let them get used to it. I guess if that means Holl plays forward for the rest of the year, then I can maybe go along with that. But I don't like the idea of yo-yoing players from defense to forward to defense to forward.. and so on.

The main problem is a few of the frosh forwards just aren't doing enough in those lower line roles. Nobody expected any of this year's frosh to be scorers (maybe Connor Reilly if he was healthy). First of all, the team had to spend wisely on the 2012 recruiting class because 2013 was so loaded for top forward talent in our area and we couldn't afford to miss out on it. But we also didn't need high impact frosh this year because of the veteran depth up front.

But you've got to provide more than zero points in 6 games and a -2 or 1 point in 5 games and a -3. Freshman or not, it is unacceptable. Especially for a guy like Michaelson who is getting decent size scholarship. He either needs to wake up or go back to the USHL and find a new program to play in. It is hard for me to call any frosh a bust when we aren't even at mid-season of his first year but Justin Kloos already has as many points in the USHL this year than Michaelson had all of last season! Michaelson has plateaued badly and he was a definite miss (John Hill... the gift that keeps on giving). Something needs to change with that situation. Even if it was in a lower line role, we should have brought in Kloos and told Michaelson to go play USHL again. Hindsight is 20/20 and I agreed with the decision to delay Kloos. But it is looking like a mistake now.

As for Horn, I can't entirely answer that. Ideally, a kid like that goes to USHL but they got him for next to nothing and he provides somewhat of a safety net if needed so I can understand the situation. He's a good athlete and I think he'll be a solid player down the road (albeit likely in a non-scoring capacity).

I don't have a problem with using Holl up front, and occasionally moving him back. It isn't that hard for a D to shift into a forward role. I don't necessarily like rotating in multiple D though. He seems to be as good of an option as the others.

And it is hard to blame anyone for Michaelson. From what I remember, he was viewed as having huge upside when the Gophs were pursuing him, and lots of fans were pumped to get him. He didn't plateau until after he committed, if I remember correctly, or started at around the same time anyway. That is going to happen some. Hopefully none of the other recruits will drop that much in the future any time soon. (Wouldn't complain if a couple of the BC commits did though.) And I haven't given up any hope of him contributing. There is a potentially great class of forwarsds next year, and hopefully many of the good D we have now will stick around for awhile. But it is always a crapshoot.

If the players on all the lines can start showing 60 minutes of intensity every game, the lack of depth on the 4th shouldn't be a problem. They are still deeper than most teams in the country, just not quite as deep as we thought they would be before the season started.

[Stauber1]

Re: Minnesota Gophers 2012-2013: From Dinkytown to Steel City!

I was skeptical of Holl playing forward when they first started playing him there, but I like what I've seen from him. He goes hard, isn't afraid to mix it up down low or in front of the net (where was that when he was on D?), he understands how to play in the defensive zone and he does pass the puck pretty well. There was a reason that when he first came to Minnesota people had him pegged as a potential Paul Martin.

For me, the guy has over two seasons playing in the WCHA. His decision making, poise and physical awareness are naturally going to be ahead of guys just stepping into college hockey for the first time. I've got no problem with him continuing to play every game on that fourth line. Or even third, or second if it makes sense to move a better offensive-minded guy like Isackson or Warning back to the third line.

But I agree with some of the sentiment already expressed. I don't like seeing guys flopping back and forth from D to F to D to F. If he's going to be used as a forward, let him develop an identity there.

[Hammy]

Re: Minnesota Gophers 2012-2013: From Dinkytown to Steel City!

And it is hard to blame anyone for Michaelson.

I am relatively confident that if MG had been the main assistant at the time, we would have passed. That's all I will say on that.

[gopher wes]

Re: Minnesota Gophers 2012-2013: From Dinkytown to Steel City!

I love people changing their tune on Holl this year. This should make Slap Shot happy. #toldyaso

Obviously Holl could tank, but I think he is as good an option as any right now and deserves to be in the lineup. IMO you have to leave Serratore on the 4th line, he IS the 4th line. Filling in around him with some combo of R. Reilly/Holl/Michaelson/Larsen is fine with me as long as Serratore stays put.

Hopefully some of this line shuffling and juggling can be settled if/when Warning returns to the lineup. Not to say Warning is the answer to any problems this team has, but he is an every night player and when he returns the lineup should be more stable and hopefully everyone can settle into their role for a great second half run.

[5mn_Major]

Re: Minnesota Gophers 2012-2013: From Dinkytown to Steel City!

Hopefully some of this line shuffling and juggling can be settled if/when Warning returns to the lineup. Not to say Warning is the answer to any problems this team has, but he is an every night player and when he returns the lineup should be more stable and hopefully everyone can settle into their role for a great second half run.

There's no question Warning plays hard, has talent and is key.

Regardless of Warning, I'd hope that with the forwards we returned this year can get our average goals up to 3 per game (which we haven't seen since Mich State). And we have yet to play UND, DU or CC. Three consistent goals gives us enough to have a chance to win.

[Slap Shot]

Re: Minnesota Gophers 2012-2013: From Dinkytown to Steel City!

I was wrong Holl on one point and that was the belief he wouldn't his spot on the blue line. That said given his offensive production from that position in HS I am not surprised to see him holding his own at F but more importantly from my chair he's playing with more confidence and dare I say a bit of grit that he hasn't since early on in his Fr year. Truth be told I'd rather they have a true F playing instead of him but if he gives them a better option than roll with it for now.

I really want to see them crash the net more than they have as cliched as it sounds. You're not going to 'snipe' most of your goals and you can't rely on rinkwide one-timers into an open net on the PP all game long either. They are clearly talented and I don't question their heart nor necessarily effort so far as much as their strategy.

[D2D]

Re: Minnesota Gophers 2012-2013: From Dinkytown to Steel City!

I was wrong Holl on one point and that was the belief he wouldn't his spot on the blue line. That said given his offensive production from that position in HS I am not surprised to see him holding his own at F but more importantly from my chair he's playing with more confidence and dare I say a bit of grit that he hasn't since early on in his Fr year. Truth be told I'd rather they have a true F playing instead of him but if he gives them a better option than roll with it for now.

I see Holl contining to take steps in transitioning to the forward position. He may end up to be a very valuable asset to have up there on that 4th line, or even possibly the 3rd if he continues to show improvement. I don't expect him to score a ton of goals, but then again I wouldn't expect anyone filling that role to score a lot either...their primary mission is to shut down the other team while giving their own top lines more recovery time. In that respect having a solid, defensive-oriented forward in that position could end up being a real plus for the team down the stretch. It's probably not the ideal situation for him personally, but hopefully he will make the most of it and help the team in any way he can. Based on what we're seeing of him lately that does seem to be the case.

I really want to see them crash the net more than they have as cliched as it sounds. You're not going to 'snipe' most of your goals and you can't rely on rinkwide one-timers into an open net on the PP all game long either. They are clearly talented and I don't question their heart nor necessarily effort so far as much as their strategy.

You touched upon a little pet pieve of mine, that being the apparent main focus of our PP to set up the one-timer, often from far out and sometimes from bad angles at that. I'd like to see a little more patience and creativity in working the puck in for some higher percentage chances. I realize they would too and this is a lot easier said than done, but it seems to me that we're often too quick in settling for the very low percentage one-timer slapper, which too often is whiffed on or shot wide.

[Stauber1]

Re: Minnesota Gophers 2012-2013: From Dinkytown to Steel City!

You touched upon a little pet pieve of mine, that being the apparent main focus of our PP to set up the one-timer, often from far out and sometimes from bad angles at that. I'd like to see a little more patience and creativity in working the puck in for some higher percentage chances. I realize they would too and this is a lot easier said than done, but it seems to me that we're often too quick in settling for the very low percentage one-timer slapper, which too often is whiffed on or shot wide.

The trade-off there is that when you start trying to "get creative" and work the puck in closer to the goal -- which I take to mean looking to slot the puck into some tight spaces and to guys swooping into very narrow passing lanes -- is that you turn it over more often. Same goes for the willingness to take shots from the point when there are bodies in front of the net and trying to grind out some tips or rebound opportunities.

I agree that I they need to start doing these things a bit more; or put another way, take a few more risks. But it means that they propbably won't keep the puck locked in that zone for long stretches of time like we saw against Wisco last weekend (especially on Friday).

Obviously if they convert on a higher percentage of PP opportunites, it is worth the decreesed time in the O-zone. But it just seems that right now the intent is to keep the puck down there, wear the opposition out, and reap the benefits of that fatigue.