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OneTimer
07-23-2012, 03:15 PM
Oswego has lost many, many players lately. not a whole lot left now on what is known about the roster

http://www.therecord.com/sports/article/763534--female-hockey-player-s-career-hits-roadblock (from the DIII men's Oswego thread)

PrezdeJohnson09
07-23-2012, 06:00 PM
I just want to clarify one thing local newspapers normally throw around incorrectly is the term athletic scholarship is being thrown around.

Oswego nor any other D3 schools give athletic scholarships. What Oswego did cut was their international aid package which affected Howe because she is from Canada.

International aid packages are more than legal so long as Johnny sue non athlete gets the same aid as billy bob athlete on hockey team.

WIrinkrat
07-23-2012, 07:10 PM
Be that as it may...and I'm not accusing anyone at Oswego of this...however there are absolutely 100% coaches out there who use those international aid packages that are available to all students and go to hockey players that don't know any better and say this is your "hockey package" or this is your "athletic scholarship"

Semantics perhaps, but to players who are hungry to be recognized for their athletics abilities it certainly carries weight to make them believe they are being rewarded for their athletic prowess and not because of where they come from.

Hockeydad4two
07-23-2012, 08:21 PM
snip...Semantics perhaps, but to players who are hungry to be recognized for their athletics abilities it certainly carries weight to make them believe they are being rewarded for their athletic prowess and not because of where they come from.

This is where the player and parents have an obligation to do their own homework and understand this part of the "game."

WIrinkrat
07-23-2012, 08:58 PM
This is where the player and parents have an obligation to do their own homework and understand this part of the "game."

To an extent, yes that is true. But you're kidding yourself if you think there is not an obligation on the part of the coaching staff to be honest with families and act with integrity. You can't expect Joe Canada or Joe Finland to understand all the inner-workings of the NCAA and all the rules that go with each different level, especially if it's their first time going through the process. They are just going to be happy to have coaches that "want" them, especially when they've been overlooked or passed over by D1 programs. Heck, half the coaches don't even know all the rules because there are so many that are always changing and evolving. But this is not a simple "misunderstanding" it's an honest to goodness attempt to deceive for the benefit of the coach and/or the program.

training44
07-23-2012, 10:31 PM
I hear Adrian is loosing people left and right too.

Hammer
07-23-2012, 10:36 PM
Not from what I've been told.

Hockeydad4two
07-23-2012, 11:44 PM
To an extent, yes that is true. But you're kidding yourself if you think there is not an obligation on the part of the coaching staff to be honest with families and act with integrity. You can't expect Joe Canada or Joe Finland to understand all the inner-workings of the NCAA and all the rules that go with each different level, especially if it's their first time going through the process. They are just going to be happy to have coaches that "want" them, especially when they've been overlooked or passed over by D1 programs. Heck, half the coaches don't even know all the rules because there are so many that are always changing and evolving. But this is not a simple "misunderstanding" it's an honest to goodness attempt to deceive for the benefit of the coach and/or the program.

I disagree. If you walk into this big of a committment without researching what will be one of the largest financial transactions of an athlete's life to date, then shame on you. Would you take anyone's word as gospel if you were purchasing a house or car? How about a financial advisor or your next door neighbor? No one deserves to be misled but there is some responsibility to do your own due diligence.

WIrinkrat
07-24-2012, 12:09 AM
I disagree. If you walk into this big of a committment without researching what will be one of the largest financial transactions of an athlete's life to date, then shame on you. Would you take anyone's word as gospel if you were purchasing a house or car? How about a financial advisor or your next door neighbor? No one deserves to be misled but there is some responsibility to do your own due diligence.

Like I already said, I agree with you, but there is only so much "research" that can be expected of someone when they don't necessarily know the extent of what they are even supposed to be researching. As far as they are concerned, they are getting money handed to them. It doesn't matter if it's academic, athletic, or what, except to the extent that the player wants to feel "wanted" for what they do on the ice, especially if they were overlooked previously. There is nothing to "research" there.

Your comparisons are not valid. They are apples to oranges. If I want to buy a 200,000 dollar house and someone is going to give me $50,000 so that my house only costs $150,000...then I'm good with that. Maybe it's because everyone in that moves into that neighborhood gets a $50,000 discount, but if they tell me it's because I'm beautiful and smart and the most amazing person ever to grace that neighborhood with my presence then I'm going to feel a hell of a lot more special and I'm not going to ask a lot of questions.

There is one person in this transaction that is an "expert" and that person has an obligation to be as straight forward and honest as possible so that those with limited knowledge can do their best to sort through the honest information from many sources as best they can and make the best decision. Everyone has responsibility to know what they are getting into, but that doesn't give a coach the right to intentionally mislead someone as to what they are getting into, period.

canadahockey26
07-24-2012, 12:41 PM
Is Oswego still eligible for playoffs?


Another interesting point, my cousin is a Canadian soccer player for a D3 school and he gets a "Canadian Scholarship" from his school that is only awarded to athletes.

It seems like they only crack down on hockey for "international scholarships."

gojackets
07-25-2012, 12:13 PM
Is Oswego still eligible for playoffs?


Another interesting point, my cousin is a Canadian soccer player for a D3 school and he gets a "Canadian Scholarship" from his school that is only awarded to athletes.

It seems like they only crack down on hockey for "international scholarships."

There is no way that those scholarships only go to athletes. Isn't this what the schools got in trouble for? Giving an unequal amount of the tuition waivers to Canadians?

Cali
07-25-2012, 01:27 PM
There is no way that those scholarships only go to athletes. Isn't this what the schools got in trouble for? Giving an unequal amount of the tuition waivers to Canadians?

I thought that it was because a dis-proportionate number of the "scholarships" went to hockey players (and perhaps all athletes) as compared to the general International student population.

gojackets
07-25-2012, 02:24 PM
I thought that it was because a dis-proportionate number of the "scholarships" went to hockey players (and perhaps all athletes) as compared to the general International student population.

which would be the case here. if the "Canadian scholarship" is only for Canadian athletes....a disproprtionate amount of "scholarships" would be given to athletes. Maybe since he's soccer it doesn't matter :)

PrezdeJohnson09
07-26-2012, 01:51 PM
I thought that it was because a dis-proportionate number of the "scholarships" went to hockey players (and perhaps all athletes) as compared to the general International student population.

This is correct.

The grants/scholarships are allowed and legal as long as a regular student gets the same money as a student-athlete and there are not 37 athletes getting it in comparison to only three non-athletes getting it.

For every athlete that gets it, there has to be a non-athlete getting it as well.

canadahockey26
07-26-2012, 03:09 PM
In regards to my soccer-playing cousin, I'm thinking that maybe they don't regulate it as much in other sports. At his school the only Canadians are athletes. They have a division 1 hockey program for men and women but the rest of the sports are D3.

LaRondelle
07-26-2012, 04:13 PM
oswego now has to do an almost complete rebuild.

all these people have left the team mostly to stay home in canada

howe
henderson
smetaniuk
marchment
draker
marks - going to adrian
one defense might have retired for medical reasons


the recruits of
stlaurent from nepean is going to plattsburgh
cameron a goalie from =brewster academy is going to castleton

both assistant coaches are gone, not sure why though


but they are getting a top notch forward transfer from quinnipiac and they will be very strong in goal

canadahockey26
07-26-2012, 04:22 PM
but they are getting a top notch forward transfer from quinnipiac and they will be very strong in goal

Are they getting a new goalie? Not saying goaltending has been bad, but it hasn't been outstanding either.

Also recruit from Nepean I believe is headed to Neumann.

spike
07-27-2012, 02:47 PM
For every athlete that gets it, there has to be a non-athlete getting it as well.

Prez, if your quote is accurate then these grants are in fact vastly disproportionate. At a typical smaller college (which comprises the bulk of DIII) student athletes might account for no more than 10% of the overall student body. 1 grant for every athlete = 1 grant for every non athlete would mean an athlete is 9-times more likely to get a grant than a non-athlete? if this is what you meant, wouldn't a fairer measure be that if athletes are 10% of the student body, then no more than 10% of the grants should go to athletes?

Cali
07-27-2012, 03:53 PM
Prez, if your quote is accurate then these grants are in fact vastly disproportionate. At a typical smaller college (which comprises the bulk of DIII) student athletes might account for no more than 10% of the overall student body. 1 grant for every athlete = 1 grant for every non athlete would mean an athlete is 9-times more likely to get a grant than a non-athlete? if this is what you meant, wouldn't a fairer measure be that if athletes are 10% of the student body, then no more than 10% of the grants should go to athletes?

I think the grants in question were available solely to International Students. The dis-proportion arised from this sample group only. I will try and give an example that explains it. If there are 500 International students and 100 of those were athletes, then 1 of 5, or 20% of all International grants given were to go to athlletes. The actual ratio was probably 75%.

I think I am right in this assesment but if I am wrong, please clarify.

Cali

PSUChamps2001
07-27-2012, 04:28 PM
I think the grants in question were available solely to International Students. The dis-proportion arised from this sample group only. I will try and give an example that explains it. If there are 500 International students and 100 of those were athletes, then 1 of 5, or 20% of all International grants given were to go to athlletes. The actual ratio was probably 75%.

I think I am right in this assesment but if I am wrong, please clarify.

Cali

Pretty much nailed it. Keep in mind also, just because "hockey" has the most international student athletes, if an international athlete was on a different sport team that athlete would have to give up their FA or the team would have to forfit the post season. Potsdam LAX has one international player and had to give up their post season (granted they wernt going to make the playoffs anyways). The NCAA wants it to be 50% Non-Athletes or higher. While some schools recieved the "ban" penalty for being close to the 50%, others (because they stopped on time when told no) who were at nearly 98%-99% athletes recieving the FA were still able to compete (Neumann).