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PrezdeJohnson09
06-03-2012, 12:31 PM
Was reading Thursday's Star Gazette and in the Jackals article noting that they would be back in Elmira at the First Arena (downtown arena) for the 2012-13 season, it was also mentioned that Chemung County executive Tom Santulli is hoping to revist talks of bringing Elmira College hockey on a permanent basis to the First Arena.

Thoughts?

I have already considered the numerous pros and cons to the decision and have formulated my own opinion that I'll post later. Anyone care to chime in?

defence18
06-03-2012, 12:39 PM
I don't see why they wouldn't move. It is clearly time for a change for Elimra hockey. Moving to a newer rink would be an obvious catalyst for the needed changes that this program needs to take to become a contender again. How many recruits do you think have been lost because the Domes?

Also, they already have the purple seats in place!

:cool:

LakerEagleLover
06-03-2012, 01:29 PM
Why wouldn't you want to have your home games in walking distance to your campus where all you students are required to live....its the only way you will get a strong student section consistently, especially when total enrollment is less than 2,000 - having to bus or drive more than 10 miles each way to a "home game" in a charming but past its prime dome is no way for a program of this caliber to live...:rolleyes:

My daughter was a 4 yr player, 2 yr capt of women's soccer team - the miles she racked up driving back n forth to practice because the bus didn't work for her class schedule - or just didn't work - was a hidden co$t on top of already rich tuition, but at least her home games were on campus. On a sunny Saturday afternoon, they would draw more students than the hockey game that evening - Men's hockey - they routinely outdrew women's hockey despite the fact women's hockey won more games in a season than soccer won in the 4 years my kid was there. :eek:

I say play the games downtown - makes it easier and safe to get to the Branch for the post game festivities....:D

Pioneers#1
06-03-2012, 02:06 PM
Why wouldn't you want to have your home games in walking distance to your campus where all you students are required to live....its the only way you will get a strong student section consistently, especially when total enrollment is less than 2,000 - having to bus or drive more than 10 miles each way to a "home game" in a charming but past its prime dome is no way for a program of this caliber to live...:rolleyes:

My daughter was a 4 yr player, 2 yr capt of women's soccer team - the miles she racked up driving back n forth to practice because the bus didn't work for her class schedule - or just didn't work - was a hidden co$t on top of already rich tuition, but at least her home games were on campus. On a sunny Saturday afternoon, they would draw more students than the hockey game that evening - Men's hockey - they routinely outdrew women's hockey despite the fact women's hockey won more games in a season than soccer won in the 4 years my kid was there. :eek:

I say play the games downtown - makes it easier and safe to get to the Branch for the post game festivities....:D

^^What he said^^ ;)

norm1909
06-03-2012, 04:52 PM
It would have to make economic sense given the enormous energy cost of freezing the ice while heating the arena, not to mention the equipment maintenance costs, added insurance and other expenses. The obvious synergies are great, BUT then there is scheduling. Three major teams (Jackals, Men & Women’s teams) competing for ice time is likely to be extremely difficult and maintaining an ice sheet at the Domes would eliminate the savings. My thought is if the scheduling logistics – both practice and games can be worked out – then moving and sharing the costs would be a no brainier, but otherwise, stick with what works.

collegehcky2
06-03-2012, 04:55 PM
Why wouldn't you want to have your home games in walking distance to your campus where all you students are required to live....its the only way you will get a strong student section consistently, especially when total enrollment is less than 2,000 - having to bus or drive more than 10 miles each way to a "home game" in a charming but past its prime dome is no way for a program of this caliber to live...:rolleyes:

My daughter was a 4 yr player, 2 yr capt of women's soccer team - the miles she racked up driving back n forth to practice because the bus didn't work for her class schedule - or just didn't work - was a hidden co$t on top of already rich tuition, but at least her home games were on campus. On a sunny Saturday afternoon, they would draw more students than the hockey game that evening - Men's hockey - they routinely outdrew women's hockey despite the fact women's hockey won more games in a season than soccer won in the 4 years my kid was there. :eek:

I say play the games downtown - makes it easier and safe to get to the Branch for the post game festivities....:D

If:

A) The arena can sell beer during the games.

B) The college can make some money from tickets or concessions.

C) The Men's team can work out a schedule with the ECHL so that they're not kicked to Saturday afternoon games.

D) The ticket prices don't rise astronomically.

Then it makes sense.

UCBadger
06-03-2012, 06:42 PM
If:

A) The arena can sell beer during the games.

B) The college can make some money from tickets or concessions.

C) The Men's team can work out a schedule with the ECHL so that they're not kicked to Saturday afternoon games.

D) The ticket prices don't rise astronomically.

Then it makes sense.C) could be the big problem. I am pretty sure that in UC's first contract (10 years) with the Aud, any professional team would have scheduling preference. I don't know if that is the case with the new contract or not.

PrezdeJohnson09
06-04-2012, 12:53 PM
My father has also noted that Elmira moving to the First Arena would be the first step toward getting him back to going to games again.

Interested to hear the thoughts of the some the "Elmira Vets" like Jim32, Don, elbojpb and jconner on this subject.

jconnor
06-04-2012, 04:47 PM
Although I like the place, I don't want to give up our Booster Club "perks" that we currently have. Promise me a reserved seat for all home games, where I want to sit and I might be able to live with that, but, since they (City) charge higher parking fees on "event nights" I can't see paying those idiots extra money just so I can go watch a hockey game, one reason I avoid jackals games. It's free parking any other time at night.
I guess it would bring back those who can't watch a game without a beer in their hand:rolleyes:
Sorry, I'm selfish, I like the fact theat the Domes are close to my home, I can take a half day vacation and get to the game on time, not if they move it downtown I can't.

Besides, scheduleing nightmare IMHO

I doubt we've "Lost" players due to the Domes;)

bakdraft21
06-04-2012, 05:05 PM
Although I like the place, I don't want to give up our Booster Club "perks" that we currently have. Promise me a reserved seat for all home games, where I want to sit and I might be able to live with that, but, since they (City) charge higher parking fees on "event nights" I can't see paying those idiots extra money just so I can go watch a hockey game, one reason I avoid jackals games. It's free parking any other time at night.
I guess it would bring back those who can't watch a game without a beer in their hand:rolleyes:
Sorry, I'm selfish, I like the fact theat the Domes are close to my home, I can take a half day vacation and get to the game on time, not if they move it downtown I can't.

Besides, scheduleing nightmare IMHO

I doubt we've "Lost" players due to the Domes;) The Domes made a big impression on me when I got recruited ....a positive 1, BUT the bus ride was no fun

PSUChamps2001
06-04-2012, 05:35 PM
The Domes made a big impression on me when I got recruited ....a positive 1, BUT the bus ride was no fun

I would agree back in the days.....but with the "newer" rinks and facilities...along with a much smaller attendance at the Domes (4,000 screaming Eagle fans was fun) the Domes have lost its Luster with the typical recruit.

smbenny
06-04-2012, 06:32 PM
This change needs to happen. We haven't won a championship at the Domes and the attendance certainly isn't growing. Look at Oswego's new arena - what top recruit wouldn't love to play there?

elbojpb
06-04-2012, 06:34 PM
The county exec made it very clear that the Afrs (owners of the Jackals and manage the Arena) are on very very thin ice. The fire alarm hasn't worked since it was installed, and the county is sick of the Afr's sleazy operating style. The reason Santulli wants EC downtown is to have a primary tenant when the Afr's and Jackals are presumptively evicted at the end of the 12/13 season, which makes the scheduling issue a moot issue.

There are no substantive negatives for EC moving to the Arena other than Connor having to drive the extra 8 miles which most of us do now.

Parking is abundant and free is you don't mind walking two blocks
There is more than one road into and out of the arena
There are no mysterious crop circles under the ice
The temperature is tolerable
There are more than two concession locations
There are more than two bathrooms
The lighting isn't abysmal
The hand soap is not purple
The seats are all comfortable
You can eat downtown, then walk to the game
The sound system does not suck
There is more than one entrance
Hopefully more than 20 students would attend
My wife would begin attending with me again


Edit ... Here's the latest scoop on this train wreck from the local rag:

Ice hockey will continue in the First Arena in the coming season. An interim agreement has been reached between Chemung County and the operator and former owner of First Arena that will allow the Elmira Jackals to play in the facility during the 2012-13 hockey season.

Also, a court date has been set for next week in a lawsuit accusing the county of not following proper procedure when it foreclosed on the arena earlier this year. County Executive Tom Santulli announced the memorandum of understanding Wednesday that was signed May 17 by Tamer Afr for Elmira Downtown Arena (EDA), Santulli for the county and Kevin Keeley, who is now president of Southern Tier Economic Development (STED).

The agreement allows EDA to continue operating the arena but gives the county the same rights as STED to oversee arena operations to ensure EDA complies with the agreement, Santulli said. The pact expires the day after hockey season ends in 2013, he said.

"We want to have hockey next year at the arena. The ECHL is putting their schedule together right now, and Elmira is either going to be in, or Elmira's going to be out. We want Elmira to be in, and because of that, we've entered into a memorandum of understanding," Santulli said. If there isn't compliance with the agreement, the county will take appropriate action, he said.

"Believe me, we are not going to go through another year of fire systems that don't work, insurance not on the facility," Santulli said."The county will not hesitate for a moment to pull the trigger should any of the agreement not be lived up to. This is not going to be fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants, business-as-usual."

In a related development, Santulli said he wants to start new negotiations with Elmira College to have the college hockey team play at the arena. There was a proposed agreement years earlier, but college President Thomas Meier has said that STED rejected it the day it was to be signed, Santulli said.

The county foreclosed on the arena earlier this year because its operator failed to meet the deadline to pay overdue taxes. The county legislature voted March 12 to table an attempt by STED to buy back the arena by paying the back taxes and a penalty. Subsequently, EDA filed a lawsuit accusing the county of acting illegally by not allowing STED to buy back the arena. EDA and Key Bank also filed a lawsuit challenging whether the county followed proper procedure in its foreclosure process.

In addition, EDA sued the arena's former general manager Robbie Nichols and former assistant general manager Donald Lewis, alleging they tried to sabotage the arena operator, the Jackals and First Arena. In April, Chemung County Supreme Court Judge Judith O'Shea dismissed one complaint. She said she would not order the county to accept the repurchase offer. She also dismissed an injunction filed against Nichols and Lewis but allowed that suit to go forward.

At 9:30 a.m. June 8, O'Shea will hear the suit accusing the county of not following proper procedure during foreclosure, Santulli said
It does not make sense for the county to seek proposals for the sale and management of the facility with litigation still pending, he said. "While we have a very aggressive plan to move forward with the operation of the arena, it's going to be very difficult to get anyone in a new owner capacity until all this litigation is settled," Santulli said.

The county essentially owns the arena and must sign the deed to take possession of the property, but Santulli has delayed signing it because of liability concerns.

DH003325
06-04-2012, 06:51 PM
I would miss the history of the Domes. Some advantages are what has been said (warmer, closer to students). I think scheduling will be an issue,though, because if the Jackals are gone, another team would probably move in.
I have my doubts that EC would agree to it because, for one, ice time would be expensive. Yes, they would share energy costs, but they virtually get the Domes facility without paying for ice time. I'm also not sure that the powers-that-be at EC would want to give up control. At the Arena, they wouldn't be able to make all the decisions and have everything their way.
I do think the cold at the Domes keeps people away, and you could cross-market the college games with the Jackals (or whatever other team that's there). Some Jackal fans would probably check out the college games, but a lot of those fans are the element that want to drink beer and watch fights, so I don't know how badly we really want or need those type of fans. They may not stick around, anyway, because the college game has very few fights.
So there are advantages and disadvantages, and my feelings are mixed.

collegehcky2
06-04-2012, 06:56 PM
I would miss the history of the Domes. Some advantages are what has been said (warmer, closer to students). I think scheduling will be an issue,though, because if the Jackals are gone, another team would probably move in.
I have my doubts that EC would agree to it because, for one, ice time would be expensive. Yes, they would share energy costs, but they virtually get the Domes facility without paying for ice time. I'm also not sure that the powers-that-be at EC would want to give up control. At the Arena, they wouldn't be able to make all the decisions and have everything their way.
I do think the cold at the Domes keeps people away, and you could cross-market the college games with the Jackals (or whatever other team that's there). Some Jackal fans would probably check out the college games, but a lot of those fans are the element that want to drink beer and watch fights, so I don't know how badly we really want or need those type of fans. They may not stick around, anyway, because the college game has very few fights.
So there are advantages and disadvantages, and my feelings are mixed.

I think with the exception of gameday skates and games, EC would probably still use the Domes for practices. Ice time probably won't be that large a burden.

The Real Georgia Peach
06-04-2012, 07:36 PM
Educate me, is Elmira a private college? Or part of the SUNYAC system? Why wouldn't they build a facility on their own campus?

PrezdeJohnson09
06-04-2012, 07:58 PM
Educate me, is Elmira a private college? Or part of the SUNYAC system? Why wouldn't they build a facility on their own campus?

Elmira is a private college located in downtown Elmira. The First Arena is a city arena 5 minutes away. The Domes are located 15-20 mins away from campus and are owned by the college for dirt cheap.

There is not room on the EC campus to build a rink on campus nor would they probably want one since the downtown rink is so close and they already have the Domes.

bakdraft21
06-04-2012, 08:18 PM
I would agree back in the days.....but with the "newer" rinks and facilities...along with a much smaller attendance at the Domes (4,000 screaming Eagle fans was fun) the Domes have lost its Luster with the typical recruit.nail hitting head:D

bakdraft21
06-04-2012, 08:22 PM
Elmira is a private college located in downtown Elmira. The First Arena is a city arena 5 minutes away. The Domes are located 15-20 mins away from campus and are owned by the college for dirt cheap.

There is not room on the EC campus to build a rink on campus nor would they probably want one since the downtown rink is so close and they already have the Domes. whats the capacity of the 1st arena

PrezdeJohnson09
06-04-2012, 09:10 PM
whats the capacity of the 1st arena

4000ish.