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owslachief
04-20-2012, 09:36 AM
Michigan State athletics set an internal deadline of May 1 to have a final decision as to whether to build new or renovate. The list of requirements involved in renovations seems to pile up ... from EPA requirements in replacing the current chiller system to accessibility mandates. The other issues are well known.

AD Mark Hollis has quipped about what he needs to take the path of building new.

This morning my confidence that Spartan Hockey will happen at Shaw and Chestnut is 4 Golden Shovels out of 5. :)

4four4
04-20-2012, 09:47 AM
They totally need to sht or get off the pot. IMO, they need to keep up with the rest of the bigger Big Ten rinks.

owslachief
04-20-2012, 10:03 AM
They totally need to sht or get off the pot. IMO, they need to keep up with the rest of the bigger Big Ten rinks.

So in other words, fish or cut bait, hold or cut bow-strings, put up or shut up, go large or go home, ...

davyd83
04-20-2012, 10:09 AM
They totally need to sht or get off the pot. IMO, they need to keep up with the rest of the bigger Big Ten rinks.

There's no need for a 10 or 15,000 seat rink in East Lansing. I wouldn't expect that a new barn would be much bigger than Munn, if at all. State average 5364 in their 6470 seat rink. There's no need to build bigger.

owslachief
04-20-2012, 10:29 AM
There's no need for a 10 or 15,000 seat rink in East Lansing. I wouldn't expect that a new barn would be much bigger than Munn, if at all. State average 5364 in their 6470 seat rink. There's no need to build bigger.

Perhaps 10,000 is a bit much to ask at the moment, however 6,700 needs to be improved on:

1. Munn is not a very accessible arena. Along with a new arena will come an improved parking situation.
2. Seating will be more appealing.
3. 10 Big Ten opponent games (as opposed to 2 to 6) will significantly bump the casual-fan attendence.
4. By the time BTHC is going, the product on the ice will be better.

There certainly should be emphasis on comfort and amenities, but we should add 2,000 seats with an option for expansion.

-- BTW, if it hasn't been discussed already, Yost should expand as well. Silly not to.

RaceBoarder
04-20-2012, 12:57 PM
Perhaps 10,000 is a bit much to ask at the moment, however 6,700 needs to be improved on:

1. Munn is not a very accessible arena. Along with a new arena will come an improved parking situation.
2. Seating will be more appealing.
3. 10 Big Ten opponent games (as opposed to 2 to 6) will significantly bump the casual-fan attendence.
4. By the time BTHC is going, the product on the ice will be better.

There certainly should be emphasis on comfort and amenities, but we should add 2,000 seats with an option for expansion.

-- BTW, if it hasn't been discussed already, Yost should expand as well. Silly not to.

From an outsider's prospective, I have to believe that this is a fair assesment... I don't see why a 7500-8000 seat arena wouldn't work... If done right, I'm sure MSU can easily up their per game gate revenue with this plan....

davyd83
04-20-2012, 01:35 PM
Perhaps 10,000 is a bit much to ask at the moment, however 6,700 needs to be improved on:

1. Munn is not a very accessible arena. Along with a new arena will come an improved parking situation.
2. Seating will be more appealing.
3. 10 Big Ten opponent games (as opposed to 2 to 6) will significantly bump the casual-fan attendence.
4. By the time BTHC is going, the product on the ice will be better.

There certainly should be emphasis on comfort and amenities, but we should add 2,000 seats with an option for expansion.

-- BTW, if it hasn't been discussed already, Yost should expand as well. Silly not to. How would you expand Yost? Not really much of a way to do that structurally.

owslachief
04-20-2012, 01:50 PM
oops: should have some context :o

How would you expand Yost? Not really much of a way to do that structurally.

Wasn't referring to dimensions, but capacity. Again, probably better-suited for another thread / fan base.

Pirateasaurus
04-20-2012, 01:59 PM
Oh man, this is exciting. Don't know how I will feel if we gotta bail on Munn, though.

owslachief
04-20-2012, 02:01 PM
Oh man, this is exciting. Don't know how I will feel if we gotta bail on Munn, though.

If you're a fan of wrestling or volleyball, you need not bail.

davyd83
04-20-2012, 02:24 PM
oops: should have some context :o


Wasn't referring to dimensions, but capacity. Again, probably better-suited for another thread / fan base. I hope Sparty gets a new barn. Munn is tired. And let's face it, the atmosphere leaves something to be desired. Last time I was there in January, it was a close, exciting hockey game and the house was pretty dead. There was more exciting college hockey atmosphere at Michigan Tech than there was at Michigan State. Hopefully they go in that direction and Hollis and TA can begin the fundraising ASAP. It's a great program with a storied history that deserves a venue that reflects that.

owslachief
04-20-2012, 02:55 PM
I hope Sparty gets a new barn. Munn is tired. And let's face it, the atmosphere leaves something to be desired. Last time I was there in January, it was a close, exciting hockey game and the house was pretty dead. There was more exciting college hockey atmosphere at Michigan Tech than there was at Michigan State. Hopefully they go in that direction and Hollis and TA can begin the fundraising ASAP. It's a great program with a storied history that deserves a venue that reflects that.

All of the above. The series with Northern was a good one. Unfortunately there's an almost ancestral bias toward getting "up" for the B1G schools ... especially for those patrons not exactly devoted to college hockey. I'm not one of those, and will cheer just as loud for a goal or a good hit vs. any CCHA or Big Ten opponent.

And there are other tweaks that can go a long way. I think the band needs a reset ... and a return to the variety of material it had 20 years ago. Do I dare mention the announcing needs to be a little less forced and a little more ... dynamic?

One positive development is that TA has definitely taken the student section VERY seriously and is doing everything he can to engage them. I believe we saw some positive signs this year.

aallenpollreisz
04-20-2012, 03:22 PM
BTW, if it hasn't been discussed already, Yost should expand as well. Silly not to.IIRC, the most recent Yost renovation plan I heard about will actually drop overall capacity.

Back on topic: I've long contested that, if you pour some money into renovating Munn, you'll have one of the better facilities in college hockey again. The building sets a fine baseline for renovation, and the university has taken excellent care of the place ever since it opened in 1974. The sightlines are fine and the structure is sound. The refrigeration system does need to be completely overhauled, but really, that's Munn's biggest problem. (And yes, that is a major problem, but it's not a kiss of death.)

All of Munn's problems are fixable. It makes more sense to me to put $25 million toward renovations rather than $65 million or $70 million toward a completely new barn. If you get rid of the the benches and install chairback seating, install a new rink, add some nice visual bells and whistles, expand the bathrooms and take steps to make the place look less like a prop from a bad 1950s sci-fi film, Munn will be one of the better facilities in college hockey again. It won't be Ralph Engelstad Arena, but, if MSU were to build a new facility, it too wouldn't be anything close to REA.

That said, I will say that, from a purely nostalgic standpoint, I'd much rather them renovate the heck out of Munn. It was, without question, my favorite place on campus back when I was a student, and I'd feel quite cruddy if the building never hosted hockey again.

Jeff_Jackson_for_Pres.
04-20-2012, 06:38 PM
I hope Sparty gets a new barn. Munn is tired. And let's face it, the atmosphere leaves something to be desired. Last time I was there in January, it was a close, exciting hockey game and the house was pretty dead. There was more exciting college hockey atmosphere at Michigan Tech than there was at Michigan State.
Just a few comments from an outsider...

I may be in the minority, but I have always thought of Munn as a model arena. Clean, great views from anywhere, good size. I may be nostalgic though as I saw my very first hockey game at Munn when it was verrry new.

And if you want sterile, come to the CFIA and watch the silver-spoon sucking ND alums sit on their hands (and the students aren't much better). Yes, MSU fans/alums need to noisy it up a bit, but I would guess a few more seasons of good hockey might bring them back to life.

Caustic Undertow
04-20-2012, 06:45 PM
Yost has undergone renovations every few years, and the one undertaken this offseason is a bit larger than normal but still does little to change capacity. I don't think you'll see capacity increase there at any time in the near future. There is more to renovations than increasing the number of seats, though. Yost is getting another solid quality upgrade, and some more higher-revenue seats, and that will be a plus.

What sort of renovation are they talking about for Munn? Would they consider building it "upward," redoing the roof and adding second decks? I always thought that would be a workable option. It doesn't have the structural limitations Yost (or many other places) have and a good renovation will be just like a new rink anyway.

I would think that the optimal arrangement for MSU would be to have an arena with 7-8,000 seats, all chairs, equivalent sightlines to what they have now, real luxury boxes, and of course better atmosphere. You can't build atmosphere, though--this year's Michigan game was a good example that the fans can get involved in the game if properly stimulated. It may be that a significant renovation, coupled with the introduction of B1G hockey, changes the atmosphere all on its own.

This all sounds like something that can happen using the current Munn structure, at least to me. Right now Munn is functional, but neither charming and nostalgic nor glitzy and new. A good rebuild will do it well.

aallenpollreisz
04-20-2012, 07:59 PM
What sort of renovation are they talking about for Munn? Would they consider building it "upward," redoing the roof and adding second decks? I always thought that would be a workable option. It doesn't have the structural limitations Yost (or many other places) have and a good renovation will be just like a new rink anyway.When Munn was built in '74, that was essentially what the architects had in mind: Any time that seating capacity had to be adjusted, just remove the roof, build a new tier of seating and build a new roof on top of that.

That said, honestly, I just don't see a reason to bump capacity. Though draws are marginally better, currently, attendance at Munn is still pretty unspectacular when OSU, UW and Minnesota come to town. I just don't see honest-to-god B1G play changing that.

I'd be all for ripping out the benches in the current bowl and adding chairback seating. It'd probably drop capacity to around 6,100-6,200, but, again, the demand just isn't there to fill the place at its current capacity on a nightly basis at $20-$22 a pop. (And really, demand like that hasn't been there since the mid-2000s.)

bueller
04-20-2012, 10:33 PM
As a Ferris fan, Munn is one of the best arenas I have been to. I would hate to see it go. Great sight lines, nice fans. How bad are the parking issues there? I really haven't noticed an issue in the few games I've been to.

hanasoni
04-20-2012, 11:56 PM
A new barn does not change the ra-ra-ra atmosphere. A different audience is needed to make it exciting.

owslachief
04-21-2012, 01:30 AM
Here's the big problem: Munn's refrigeration system. In short order, it HAS to be replaced or face the wrath of the EPA. That replacement will be about as much $$ as all the other problems that have to be addressed. This is what might tip the scales.

Flashy Man
04-21-2012, 09:45 AM
Here's the big problem: Munn's refrigeration system. In short order, it HAS to be replaced or face the wrath of the EPA. That replacement will be about as much $$ as all the other problems that have to be addressed. This is what might tip the scales.

Tech is completely replacing their 70's era refrigeration system at a cost of approximately $2 million this offseason.