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Hockeybuckeye
04-22-2012, 10:07 AM
If you read the article, all six teams will compete in the Big Ten tourney on one weekend. On the Thursdays #3 will play #, 6 and #4 will play #5. On the Fridays, #1 & #2 play the winners from Thursday, with the Friday winners playing for the title on Saturday. Those tournaments are scheduled for the third weekend of March. There are no earlier rounds. Since there are no Big Ten playoffs on the first weekend of March, there is no chance for conflict.

http://www.uscho.com/2012/04/19/big-ten-postseason-tournaments-to-rotate-between-st-paul-detroit/I can't help but wonder if this format may backfire on them. When the CCHA used to have their "Super Six" finals at the Joe those Thursday games were to a mostly vacant arena which is why they went to a 4 team 2 day final.

davyd83
04-22-2012, 10:09 AM
Thanks, I was not aware of that.
I hope you understand how touchy a subject that first round issue has been for us here. As far as the university was concerned it was never about how well our team could or should draw being a reason for signing that contract, it was always about them putting a high school event ahead of their own team solely for the money because hockey had always been a low priority sport for them!

That's certainly understood. I know it has been frustrating for the fans.

davyd83
04-22-2012, 10:12 AM
I can't help but wonder if this format may backfire on them. When the CCHA used to have their "Super Six" finals at the Joe those Thursday games were to a mostly vacant arena which is why they went to a 4 team 2 day final. One thing the three day tourney assures is that Michigan and Michigan State will play in Detroit, and Minnesota will play in St Paul.

SCSU Euro
04-22-2012, 04:19 PM
One thing the three day tourney assures is that Michigan and Michigan State will play in Detroit, and Minnesota will play in St Paul.

Yeah, but some may only go if their team makes it to Friday (the local fans) so now a #3 or #4 team is one bad day on Thursday away from elimination, and one neutral ice

Almington
04-22-2012, 05:25 PM
Yeah, but some may only go if their team makes it to Friday (the local fans) so now a #3 or #4 team is one bad day on Thursday away from elimination, and one neutral ice

How much that matters depends on how many ticket packages they sell ahead of time. It is what "saved" the F5 attendance in the years that MN didn't make the tournament. If rotating the tournament hurts the package sales because buying/renewing the package becomes a less automatic purchase then having the local team flame out might really impact paid attendance. Another issue is what happens if the local team get seeded into the Thursday and/or Friday afternoon games. Say what you want about the unfairness of the the "Minnesota always gets the primetime game" it made it very easy for locals to buy tickets and know that they won't have to use vacation to watch the Gopher's play in the afternoon or eat the cost of the tickets.

TheEagle
04-23-2012, 11:53 AM
Its nearly impossible for a team hours away from a school without as big of an undergrad and alum base to outdraw the host school, and hats off for UND for almost doing it, but I don't believe they do. First, when the two are playing (which they did this year and I witnessed) I believe there was a slight edge in maroon and gold than green and black. Second, the Gophers bring casual fans; fans that dont even wear maroon and gold just street clothes, bc if you see someone walking around not supporting a team you probably assume Gopher fan (or neutral). But I can't imagine any UND fans showing up not wearing UND... Same for SCSU, MTU, UW, etc.

My gut tells me you are correct, but that it's close. I thought I'd take the time to analyze.


Over the last 8-10 years, some interesting things come about. Minnesota outdraws UND in play-in games by around 2,000 fans/game. This has been a Thursday game, so that tells me not as many UND fans travel if it's not on the weekend. In semifinal and final games, the average attendance is only a few hundred more/game in Minnesota games vs. UND games. The stats were padded by a one game where UND drew over 19K. Normally, it's close to 1,000/game--but remember that Minnesota has the advantage of almost always (if not always) playing in the night game--which is generally more well attended. My feeling is that the Minnesota games are a little more attended, but there's no question that UND has been a major draw for the Final Five. Minnesota has been the 1a draw--while UND has been the 1b draw.

bronconick
04-23-2012, 12:32 PM
I don't think there's going to be a big enough market for ticket packages to "save" it in either city. MSU and Michigan fans will simply wait to see when their teams play because the Joe seats 21,000+ and there's no way in hell that's coming close to selling out before Saturday afternoon's hypothetical final between those two only.

Same thing in Minneapolis. Without North Dakota, St. Cloud and the other local teams, after the first year when people do it out of habit, I imagine a lot more Gopher fans will just walk up to the ticket booth day of and get the Minnesota games only since outside of Wisconsin, there's no other fanbase that's going put ticket pressure up.

Almington
04-23-2012, 01:27 PM
My gut tells me you are correct, but that it's close. I thought I'd take the time to analyze.


Over the last 8-10 years, some interesting things come about. Minnesota outdraws UND in play-in games by around 2,000 fans/game. This has been a Thursday game, so that tells me not as many UND fans travel if it's not on the weekend. In semifinal and final games, the average attendance is only a few hundred more/game in Minnesota games vs. UND games. The stats were padded by a one game where UND drew over 19K. Normally, it's close to 1,000/game--but remember that Minnesota has the advantage of almost always (if not always) playing in the night game--which is generally more well attended. My feeling is that the Minnesota games are a little more attended, but there's no question that UND has been a major draw for the Final Five. Minnesota has been the 1a draw--while UND has been the 1b draw.

Remember that you are talking about tickets sold, not tickets used. You'd really need to know what the count is on tickets used to get an accurate measure.

SCSU Euro
04-23-2012, 03:45 PM
My gut tells me you are correct, but that it's close. I thought I'd take the time to analyze.


Over the last 8-10 years, some interesting things come about. Minnesota outdraws UND in play-in games by around 2,000 fans/game. This has been a Thursday game, so that tells me not as many UND fans travel if it's not on the weekend. In semifinal and final games, the average attendance is only a few hundred more/game in Minnesota games vs. UND games. The stats were padded by a one game where UND drew over 19K. Normally, it's close to 1,000/game--but remember that Minnesota has the advantage of almost always (if not always) playing in the night game--which is generally more well attended. My feeling is that the Minnesota games are a little more attended, but there's no question that UND has been a major draw for the Final Five. Minnesota has been the 1a draw--while UND has been the 1b draw.

I understand your point, but there are other factors in play... Economy might have hurt more or less from year to year, the other opponents are going to make "some" influence (maybe even whether Gopher fans really dislike one team and wanna see the Gophers play them), what else is going on. I agree... I think the Gophers outdraw UND but not by nearly as much as you'd think considering the #s of alum and proximity of campuses.

TheEagle
04-23-2012, 11:45 PM
I understand your point, but there are other factors in play... Economy might have hurt more or less from year to year, the other opponents are going to make "some" influence (maybe even whether Gopher fans really dislike one team and wanna see the Gophers play them), what else is going on. I agree... I think the Gophers outdraw UND but not by nearly as much as you'd think considering the #s of alum and proximity of campuses.

I think if anything, the schedule slightly favored Minnesota. Outside of UND, the Gophers played UMD, SCSU, Wisconsin twice, CC twice, and Denver. So, two of their 7 games vs. Wisconsin (four of their seven games vs. UMD, SCSU, and Wisconsin). The Wisconsin games were huge draws. (As were the UND games). Outside of Minnesota, UND played UMD, SCSU four times, Wisconsin twice, Denver five times, CC two times, and UAA. So, eight of their 16 games vs. UAA, Denver, and CC. And Wisconsin just twice out of 16 games. Not much of a difference, so I don't think who they played favored either team much. I do think almost always (if not always) playing the night game favored Minnesota a bit.

SCSU Euro
04-24-2012, 09:51 AM
I think if anything, the schedule slightly favored Minnesota. Outside of UND, the Gophers played UMD, SCSU, Wisconsin twice, CC twice, and Denver. So, two of their 7 games vs. Wisconsin (four of their seven games vs. UMD, SCSU, and Wisconsin). The Wisconsin games were huge draws. (As were the UND games). Outside of Minnesota, UND played UMD, SCSU four times, Wisconsin twice, Denver five times, CC two times, and UAA. So, eight of their 16 games vs. UAA, Denver, and CC. And Wisconsin just twice out of 16 games. Not much of a difference, so I don't think who they played favored either team much. I do think almost always (if not always) playing the night game favored Minnesota a bit.

I'll concede that, but UND playing in the Championship game so many times helped too, both from a "let's go see a championship game" vs. a semi/quarter final standpoint and a Sat vs. Thur or Fri