PDA

View Full Version : NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only



Pages : 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23

Fighting Sioux 23
04-14-2012, 05:08 PM
The way I understand it, they don't consider it a college hockey championship, however the AAU was a much more significant organization at that time and its title was indicative of the best Amateur team in the country. This is what I have "heard," not things I've read from reliable sources, so I don't know what exactly the truth is.

Somewhere in between. It's hard to say that it was indicative of the best amateur hockey at the time when teams like Yale never played in the tournament. If I were a Gopher fan, I would be far more proud of the undefeated season than winning the AAU title (and I know several Gopher fans that feel this way as well). Minnesota, from all accounts that I have found, was the best college hockey team in 1940. That being said, I find it sad that they raise a banner for an AAU title...raise the banner for the undefeated season if you feel you need to raise a banner.

Of course, I'm not in charge of those decision. :p:D:D

Either way, this is getting this thread wayyyyy too far off track. I like your formula for the most part, and I think it does a solid job of ranking teams based on their on-ice accomplishments, which is what I believe you were going for.

JDUBBS1280
04-14-2012, 05:24 PM
The problem is Brock Hall didn't make the championship game over the likes of Michigan...etc. Brock Hall got beat by Yale by a worse margin than the Gophers beat Brock Hall that season. Brock Hall was a .500 club that lost the majority of its games against college competition. No other college team played in that AAU Tournament...why Gopher fans regard it as a College National Championship is beyond me.

True, but look at the Gophers record that season. They were undefeated. A perfect 18-0. They beat Yale twice, Illinois 4 times, Michigan Tech 4 times, and Michigan 4 times. The Gophers closest margin of victory was 3 goals. They dominated college hockey that season and diminishing that accomplishment is kinda weak IMO.

As for Brock Hall being a .500 team in the championship game. You saying we don't see upsets in today's game where lower seeded teams move on in the tournament. They were in the championship game, so I think they beat someone to get there.

JDUBBS1280
04-14-2012, 06:14 PM
Somewhere in between. It's hard to say that it was indicative of the best amateur hockey at the time when teams like Yale never played in the tournament. If I were a Gopher fan, I would be far more proud of the undefeated season than winning the AAU title (and I know several Gopher fans that feel this way as well). Minnesota, from all accounts that I have found, was the best college hockey team in 1940. That being said, I find it sad that they raise a banner for an AAU title...raise the banner for the undefeated season if you feel you need to raise a banner.

Of course, I'm not in charge of those decision. :p:D:D

Either way, this is getting this thread wayyyyy too far off track. I like your formula for the most part, and I think it does a solid job of ranking teams based on their on-ice accomplishments, which is what I believe you were going for.

For me it isn't so much about "the banner" as it is about a remarkable, dominant season that people try to dismiss because it came what, 8 years, before NCAA hockey.

burd
04-14-2012, 06:56 PM
True, but look at the Gophers record that season. They were undefeated. A perfect 18-0. They beat Yale twice, Illinois 4 times, Michigan Tech 4 times, and Michigan 4 times. The Gophers closest margin of victory was 3 goals. They dominated college hockey that season and diminishing that accomplishment is kinda weak IMO.

As for Brock Hall being a .500 team in the championship game. You saying we don't see upsets in today's game where lower seeded teams move on in the tournament. They were in the championship game, so I think they beat someone to get there.

Illinois used fortune magazines for shinpads.

SteveF
04-14-2012, 07:09 PM
I mean why even waste the time creating a mathmatical formula to rank programs? There are subjective factors that cannot be quantitated mathmatically. Just seems like a waste of time to me, but to each their own.

And it has nothing to do with Minnesota not being ranked number one. I understand the criteria being used in these rankings and FS23's. Using those factors, Minnesota shouldn't be #1. We all value different things, which is fine. I just don't understand the need to creat such subjective rankings.


what is worse... wasting time by creating formulas to rank teams or wasting time by complaining about those formulas?

SCSU Euro
04-14-2012, 07:44 PM
Where are the bonus points for winning the DQ Cup?

And I'm sorry, did Dubbs call something someone else did a waste of time?

sterlippo1
04-14-2012, 08:11 PM
what is worse... wasting time by creating formulas to rank teams or wasting time by complaining about those formulas?

the correct answer is B, complaining . i like reading these things and it's something to discuss and have fun with when the season is over. If some will consider that instead of hijacking the thread it would be more entertaining. FS23 deserves credit here rather than grief

HumRsky
04-14-2012, 08:32 PM
Either way, this is getting this thread wayyyyy too far off track. I like your formula for the most part, and I think it does a solid job of ranking teams based on their on-ice accomplishments, which is what I believe you were going for.
That what I was going for. I do think if your doing a more subjective and exhaustive ranking that encompasses the entire history of college hockey, then all pre-NCAA successes are very relevant. However, it is much more difficult to research and determine the legitimacy of various conference and national title claims. I felt that the NCAA era was an appropriate time frame that gave the most solid numbers and is the time at which most fans look the closest.

aygwm2
04-14-2012, 08:48 PM
Just curious, and excuse my not knowing, but I've been wondering where and when Brock Hall comes into the picture concerning college hockey. I've tried looking around (Google and so on) and can't come up with much information other than a hall at the University of Connecticut. Was Brock Hall a club team at UConn back in the 40s and then competed in an AAU championship? Thanks for the info...

HumRsky
04-14-2012, 08:57 PM
Just curious, and excuse my not knowing, but I've been wondering where and when Brock Hall comes into the picture concerning college hockey. I've tried looking around (Google and so on) and can't come up with much information other than a hall at the University of Connecticut. Was Brock Hall a club team at UConn back in the 40s and then competed in an AAU championship? Thanks for the info...
I think that Brock Hall was not a college hockey team. The AAU was a national amateur tournament, not a college tournament. College teams are, of course, amateur (technically) and Minnesota just happened to play in, and win, that tournament in 1940.

JDUBBS1280
04-14-2012, 09:09 PM
Illinois used fortune magazines for shinpads.

We hosted a Russian team for a youth tournament when I was growing up. Many of them didn't have shoulder pads and used rolled up newspaper for shin pads. They destroyed everyone on the way to running away with the tournament.

aygwm2
04-14-2012, 09:09 PM
Just curious, and excuse my not knowing, but I've been wondering where and when Brock Hall comes into the picture concerning college hockey. I've tried looking around (Google and so on) and can't come up with much information other than a hall at the University of Connecticut. Was Brock Hall a club team at UConn back in the 40s and then competed in an AAU championship? Thanks for the info...


I think that Brock Hall was not a college hockey team. The AAU was a national amateur tournament, not a college tournament. College teams are, of course, amateur (technically) and Minnesota just happened to play in, and win, that tournament in 1940.

Right, I understand the Amateur Athletic Union (I swam AAU back in the 70s). And I realize that Brock Hall was not a college hockey team. I guess my question wasn't very clear. What I was wondering was more along the lines of what Brock Hall is or was. Was/is it a prep school out East (Connecticut)? Was it a club team at UConn? Do they still exist? Why would Minnesota, as a University program, care whether they had won an AAU championship against Brock Hall back in the 40s? Thanks in advance...

JDUBBS1280
04-14-2012, 09:27 PM
Right, I understand the Amateur Athletic Union (I swam AAU back in the 70s). And I realize that Brock Hall was not a college hockey team. I guess my question wasn't very clear. What I was wondering was more along the lines of what Brock Hall is or was. Was/is it a prep school out East (Connecticut)? Was it a club team at UConn? Do they still exist? Why would Minnesota, as a University program, care whether they had won an AAU championship against Brock Hall back in the 40s? Thanks in advance...

Because Minnesota had a perfect 18-0 season in 1940 that culminated in the AAU Championship.

That year, they beat Michigan 9-2, 5-2, 7-0, 5-0
They beat Michigan Tech 9-1, 8-0, 7-1, 9-1
They beat Yale 3-0, 7-2
They beat Illinois 8-2, 10-2, 9-1, 9-2

burd
04-14-2012, 10:29 PM
We hosted a Russian team for a youth tournament when I was growing up. Many of them didn't have shoulder pads and used rolled up newspaper for shin pads. They destroyed everyone on the way to running away with the tournament.

Minnesota tournament, right?

JDUBBS1280
04-14-2012, 10:38 PM
Minnesota tournament, right?

The tournament was in Minnesota, yes, but there were quite a few out of state teams and the Russian team there. Fun playing against the Russians. Very nice people too.

Dirty
04-14-2012, 10:42 PM
The tournament was in Minnesota, yes, but there were quite a few out of state teams and the Russian team there. Fun playing against the Russians. Very nice people too.

I would've thought rather than taking the ice, you'd just forfeit the game to avoid playing a team that didn't have any tradition.

gopheritall
04-14-2012, 10:45 PM
what is worse... wasting time by creating formulas to rank teams or wasting time by complaining about those formulas?
I have developed a formula for ranking formulas that rank college hockey teams. One criteria is what JDubbs thinks of it but I don't want to give away too much. Rankings coming out soon...

Dude Love
04-14-2012, 10:47 PM
Woohoo! We're #36!!

Dude Love
04-14-2012, 10:48 PM
what is worse... wasting time by creating formulas to rank teams or wasting time by complaining about those formulas?

You mean the Pairwise?

SteveF
04-14-2012, 10:49 PM
Why would Minnesota, as a University program, care whether they had won an AAU championship against Brock Hall back in the 40s? Thanks in advance...

I think it is because 7>5