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Brown Hockey 2012-2013:Climbing the ECAC Ladder

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  • Re: Brown Hockey 2012-2013:Climbing the ECAC Ladder

    Originally posted by SkinsFan09 View Post
    Uh, in the NCAA a verbal contract does not equal signing an NLOI at all.
    It doesn't in the eyes of the law either. Brown wouldn't have a leg to stand on in a civil suit against Roy. That's one reason, among many, why that will never happen.

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    • Re: Brown Hockey 2012-2013:Climbing the ECAC Ladder

      Originally posted by Onion Man View Post
      ...I admire NU fans for trumpeting their University, but anyone who compares NU to Brown is living in FantasyLand.
      So who's comparing NU to Brown? Here's the entire original quote (pay particular attention to the bold type): Both NU (62) and UVM (82) are USNWR Top-100 academic schools so I don't agree he'll be deprived of a quality education at either institution. Not to eqate either with Brown (15) but they're still head-and-shoulders above the likes of North Dakota (164).


      Look, I don't blame you for being pixxed over the Roy situation and the way it came about. We lost three quality players last summer (who had signed and sealed LOIs) so I actually empathize. But please don't accuse me of putting Northeastern on the same academic level as Brown when I clearly said nothing of the sort. Northeastern makes no claims to being a pseudo-Ivy but is and remains a solid Top-100 school where athletes are actually expected to attend class, pass coursework, and graduate with degrees they can actually use to succeed personally and contribute something to society.
      "Through the years, we ever will acclaim........"

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      • Re: Brown Hockey 2012-2013:Climbing the ECAC Ladder

        Originally posted by Split-N View Post
        So who's comparing NU to Brown? Here's the entire original quote (pay particular attention to the bold type): Both NU (62) and UVM (82) are USNWR Top-100 academic schools so I don't agree he'll be deprived of a quality education at either institution. Not to eqate either with Brown (15) but they're still head-and-shoulders above the likes of North Dakota (164).


        Look, I don't blame you for being pixxed over the Roy situation and the way it came about. We lost three quality players last summer (who had signed and sealed LOIs) so I actually empathize. But please don't accuse me of putting Northeastern on the same academic level as Brown when I clearly said nothing of the sort. Northeastern makes no claims to being a pseudo-Ivy but is and remains a solid Top-100 school where athletes are actually expected to attend class, pass coursework, and graduate with degrees they can actually use to succeed personally and contribute something to society.
        Well stated.

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        • Re: Brown Hockey 2012-2013:Climbing the ECAC Ladder

          Originally posted by Euler18 View Post
          Last night I decided to listen once again to the interview with Kevin Roy, whose link I had included in a recent post. In this interview, broadcast about a week before he and his brother Derick "decommitted" from Brown, Kevin disingenuously confirmed that he definitely intended to attend Brown ("It's Brown!"), and proceeded to praise the university and the coaching staff. It's clear that the young man has been skilled not only at passing and shooting the puck but also in the art of doublespeak. I literally got sick to my stomach.

          There has been much talk about how it's supposedly legal for Kevin Roy to renege on his commitment to Brown and go around peddling his wrist shot to the highest bidder because the Ivy League doesn't use the National Letter of Intent. Perhaps. Nevertheless, a verbal contract is just as good as a written contract and enforceable to the extent of the law. Besides, since the fall of 2010 there have been many articles about and interviews with Kevin himself in which he repeatedly reaffirmed his commitment to attend Brown. If Brown could prove damages, it probably would win a civil case against Kevin Roy though it's unlikely that the university would waste its time pursuing this matter. It's also worth noting that as an allegedly early decision applicant, the young man did sign a form stating that if accepted, he would attend Brown. Ultimately this is less a matter of legality than one of ethics, moral values, and character.

          The conventional, gentlemanlike course of action would be for me to say that "I wish Kevin, Derick and their parents the best." However, I don't believe that we're dealing with gentlemen here. So, I suppose, "good riddance" will have to do.

          Here's my question -- if they signed an early decision application, and that decision said they were going to attend Brown, even if they're an athlete, aren't they bound by the same early decision candidacy as other applicants?

          What I mean is this -- my understanding is taht the Roy brothers applied to Brown under Early Decision. That means if they get in, they go. Just because they're athletes, they're allowed to decommit from that? What would happen if it were a regular old fashioned student who wanted to go just because it was Brown and lent absolutely nothing to student life besides a tuition payment?
          Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.

          STAY UP #94 #58

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          • Re: Brown Hockey 2012-2013:Climbing the ECAC Ladder

            And i only had hit Reply with Quote on Euler's entry. I know I did this the last time and didn't intend to reply back to anything he actually said. legitimate question and not questioning him; I actually enjoy the fire Brown fans are showing right now.

            For those who think Brown can't put people in the NHL, you don't go to Brown to GET into the NHL. If you're good enough, you'll go anyways (see also: Danis, Yann). you go to Brown because it's an Ivy League institution. And still, at some point in life, even if you get into BC, BU, or NU, an Ivy League degree still accounts for something in this world.

            Just like going to BC accounts for something in the NHL.
            Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.

            STAY UP #94 #58

            Comment


            • Re: Brown Hockey 2012-2013:Climbing the ECAC Ladder

              Originally posted by SkinsFan09 View Post
              Uh, in the NCAA a verbal contract does not equal signing an NLOI at all.
              Sir, with all due respect, the NC$$ is not a court of law. In civil law, a verbal contract is as good as a written contract as long as the conditions of consideration and meeting of the minds are met. That's why I said that if Brown didn't have better things to do, decided to bring this case to a civil court, and could prove damages, it'd probably win its court case.

              Comment


              • Re: Brown Hockey 2012-2013:Climbing the ECAC Ladder

                Originally posted by Humanoid View Post
                For those who think Brown can't put people in the NHL, you don't go to Brown to GET into the NHL. If you're good enough, you'll go anyways (see also: Danis, Yann). you go to Brown because it's an Ivy League institution. And still, at some point in life, even if you get into BC, BU, or NU, an Ivy League degree still accounts for something in this world.

                Just like going to BC accounts for something in the NHL.
                I make your words mine. Let's add a few other names: Curt Bennett, Tim Bothwell, Harry Zolnierczyk, Steve King, etc.

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                • Re: Brown Hockey 2012-2013:Climbing the ECAC Ladder

                  Originally posted by Euler18 View Post
                  Sir, with all due respect, the NC$$ is not a court of law. In civil law, a verbal contract is as good as a written contract as long as the conditions of consideration and meeting of the minds are met. That's why I said that if Brown didn't have better things to do, decided to bring this case to a civil court, and could prove damages, it'd probably win its court case.
                  If this were an option, the courts would be tied up until the year 3000 with all the cases from broken verbal commitments in college football.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Brown Hockey 2012-2013:Climbing the ECAC Ladder

                    Originally posted by Humanoid View Post
                    Here's my question -- if they signed an early decision application, and that decision said they were going to attend Brown, even if they're an athlete, aren't they bound by the same early decision candidacy as other applicants?

                    What I mean is this -- my understanding is taht the Roy brothers applied to Brown under Early Decision. That means if they get in, they go. Just because they're athletes, they're allowed to decommit from that? What would happen if it were a regular old fashioned student who wanted to go just because it was Brown and lent absolutely nothing to student life besides a tuition payment?
                    These are good observations. A student who applies under the Early Decision plan signs an agreement that if accepted, s/he will attend Brown. As far as I know, this is a legally binding contract, as there's both consideration and meeting of minds. In practice it functions more like a gentlemen's agreement because it's not worth for Brown to enforce it. But as I said in my longer post, we aren't dealing with gentlemen here...

                    Comment


                    • Re: Brown Hockey 2012-2013:Climbing the ECAC Ladder

                      Originally posted by KFBS View Post
                      If this were an option, the courts would be tied up until the year 3000 with all the cases from broken verbal commitments in college football.
                      Yes. It's probably not worth it. Universities have enough legal issues to attend to. However, that a verbal contract is no less enforceable than a written contract is an established fact. Suing, of course, is an option that isn't always worth pursuing.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Brown Hockey 2012-2013:Climbing the ECAC Ladder

                        Originally posted by Euler18 View Post
                        Sir, with all due respect, the NC$$ is not a court of law. In civil law, a verbal contract is as good as a written contract as long as the conditions of consideration and meeting of the minds are met. That's why I said that if Brown didn't have better things to do, decided to bring this case to a civil court, and could prove damages, it'd probably win its court case.
                        That's all fine, my point is, for the sake of his hockey career, he is, by NCAA rules, allowed to decommit without penalty if it was just a verbal commitment.
                        Northeastern Huskies

                        Beanpot Champions: 2018, 2019
                        Hockey East Champions: 2016, 2019

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                        • Re: Brown Hockey 2012-2013:Climbing the ECAC Ladder

                          Originally posted by Euler18 View Post
                          The conventional, gentlemanlike course of action would be for me to say that "I wish Kevin, Derick and their parents the best." However, I don't believe that we're dealing with gentlemen here. So, I suppose, "good riddance" will have to do.
                          I've never agreed with you so strongly. Let them rot in hell.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Brown Hockey 2012-2013:Climbing the ECAC Ladder

                            Originally posted by Humanoid View Post
                            I actually enjoy the fire Brown fans are showing right now.
                            It's refreshing in a way, isn't it? Even though it's all backlash from getting totally screwed over by some cocky little (insert word-that-would-be-deemed-inappropriate-by-the-moderator of your choice here).

                            Hopefully this blatant disrespect motivates the team to go on a rampage this season.

                            Also, let's add Aaron Volpatti and Jack Maclellan to your list of Brown players in the NHL, in addition to the players Euler mentioned.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Brown Hockey 2012-2013:Climbing the ECAC Ladder

                              Originally posted by kdiff77 View Post
                              I've never agreed with you so strongly. Let them rot in hell.
                              He decommitted late, he didn't shoot your dog. Wow.
                              Northeastern Huskies

                              Beanpot Champions: 2018, 2019
                              Hockey East Champions: 2016, 2019

                              Comment


                              • Re: Brown Hockey 2012-2013:Climbing the ECAC Ladder

                                Originally posted by kdiff77 View Post
                                It's refreshing in a way, isn't it? Even though it's all backlash from getting totally screwed over by some cocky little (insert word-that-would-be-deemed-inappropriate-by-the-moderator of your choice here).

                                Hopefully this blatant disrespect motivates the team to go on a rampage this season.

                                Also, let's add Aaron Volpatti and Jack Maclellan to your list of Brown players in the NHL, in addition to the players Euler mentioned.

                                Well I've often said this about Bentley, and I've spent a good chunk of time watching both the Falcons and your very Bears over the years.

                                We play in the world's worst D1 rink that's not at AIC. But it's ours. And while it's cramped, dank, dark, damp, dingy, and any other bad word beginning with a 'd' (even our plumbing doesn't work and that first March rainstorm to melt the snow usually results in a flood somewhere in the arena), it's still ours, and I'll defend it to the day I die. It's still our home, even if it's not much. And we do love it in our own way.

                                Like you say, hopefully this does something to light a fire under Brown's derriere. Brown might not be a great D1 program, and the records surely indicate otherwise over the past 5-7 years. There have been some very low, very lean years. But it's still your program, and you still take pride in it. So maybe you were the 11th seed or 12th seed, but you still have a puncher's chance (like that time the team went to Albany by beating RPI and Yale). I don't think a player decommitting (with all of these details) nearly has as large an effect on them as it does on you as fans, since the coaching staff's job is to keep the players mindset on the game and not on the papers. But, like I said, they have to focus, like we do, on the players who are there, not the ones who aren't.

                                The players currently there are the ones who will dedicate and sacrifice for the honor of wearing a Brown jersey. And in the end, maybe this whole thing when a guy decides he doesn't want to go, will be a binding tool that brings the team together as one. It's truly an honor to represent any institution, and if a player does some type of disrespect to the program, then it's on the coaches to look at the players and say, "WE are Brown University, and WE will defend this jersey."

                                I don't think it'll be a "Roy's a dbag. Let's show him who's boss" attitude but it'll definitely be a "hey, everyone thinks we're nothing. no respect. let's go out there and show everyone what you're made of." Whether or not this obviously works is a different story, since the team is, in the end, still a work in progress.

                                I'm willing to bet Brendan Whittet has played the no respect card more than once.........like when Keith Allain gets mad about losing and refuses to shake the opposing coach's hand (haha!)
                                Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.

                                STAY UP #94 #58

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