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Euler18
07-26-2012, 01:47 PM
Uh, in the NCAA a verbal contract does not equal signing an NLOI at all.

Sir, with all due respect, the NC$$ is not a court of law. In civil law, a verbal contract is as good as a written contract as long as the conditions of consideration and meeting of the minds are met. That's why I said that if Brown didn't have better things to do, decided to bring this case to a civil court, and could prove damages, it'd probably win its court case.

Euler18
07-26-2012, 01:51 PM
For those who think Brown can't put people in the NHL, you don't go to Brown to GET into the NHL. If you're good enough, you'll go anyways (see also: Danis, Yann). you go to Brown because it's an Ivy League institution. And still, at some point in life, even if you get into BC, BU, or NU, an Ivy League degree still accounts for something in this world.

Just like going to BC accounts for something in the NHL.

I make your words mine. Let's add a few other names: Curt Bennett, Tim Bothwell, Harry Zolnierczyk, Steve King, etc.

KFBS
07-26-2012, 01:57 PM
Sir, with all due respect, the NC$$ is not a court of law. In civil law, a verbal contract is as good as a written contract as long as the conditions of consideration and meeting of the minds are met. That's why I said that if Brown didn't have better things to do, decided to bring this case to a civil court, and could prove damages, it'd probably win its court case.

If this were an option, the courts would be tied up until the year 3000 with all the cases from broken verbal commitments in college football.

Euler18
07-26-2012, 01:58 PM
Here's my question -- if they signed an early decision application, and that decision said they were going to attend Brown, even if they're an athlete, aren't they bound by the same early decision candidacy as other applicants?

What I mean is this -- my understanding is taht the Roy brothers applied to Brown under Early Decision. That means if they get in, they go. Just because they're athletes, they're allowed to decommit from that? What would happen if it were a regular old fashioned student who wanted to go just because it was Brown and lent absolutely nothing to student life besides a tuition payment?

These are good observations. A student who applies under the Early Decision plan signs an agreement that if accepted, s/he will attend Brown. As far as I know, this is a legally binding contract, as there's both consideration and meeting of minds. In practice it functions more like a gentlemen's agreement because it's not worth for Brown to enforce it. But as I said in my longer post, we aren't dealing with gentlemen here...

Euler18
07-26-2012, 02:01 PM
If this were an option, the courts would be tied up until the year 3000 with all the cases from broken verbal commitments in college football.

Yes. It's probably not worth it. Universities have enough legal issues to attend to. However, that a verbal contract is no less enforceable than a written contract is an established fact. Suing, of course, is an option that isn't always worth pursuing.

SkinsFan09
07-26-2012, 02:47 PM
Sir, with all due respect, the NC$$ is not a court of law. In civil law, a verbal contract is as good as a written contract as long as the conditions of consideration and meeting of the minds are met. That's why I said that if Brown didn't have better things to do, decided to bring this case to a civil court, and could prove damages, it'd probably win its court case.

That's all fine, my point is, for the sake of his hockey career, he is, by NCAA rules, allowed to decommit without penalty if it was just a verbal commitment.

kdiff77
07-26-2012, 02:52 PM
The conventional, gentlemanlike course of action would be for me to say that "I wish Kevin, Derick and their parents the best." However, I don't believe that we're dealing with gentlemen here. So, I suppose, "good riddance" will have to do.

I've never agreed with you so strongly. Let them rot in hell.

kdiff77
07-26-2012, 02:59 PM
I actually enjoy the fire Brown fans are showing right now.


It's refreshing in a way, isn't it? :) Even though it's all backlash from getting totally screwed over by some cocky little (insert word-that-would-be-deemed-inappropriate-by-the-moderator of your choice here).

Hopefully this blatant disrespect motivates the team to go on a rampage this season.

Also, let's add Aaron Volpatti and Jack Maclellan to your list of Brown players in the NHL, in addition to the players Euler mentioned.

SkinsFan09
07-26-2012, 07:06 PM
I've never agreed with you so strongly. Let them rot in hell.

He decommitted late, he didn't shoot your dog. Wow.

Humanoid
07-26-2012, 09:15 PM
It's refreshing in a way, isn't it? :) Even though it's all backlash from getting totally screwed over by some cocky little (insert word-that-would-be-deemed-inappropriate-by-the-moderator of your choice here).

Hopefully this blatant disrespect motivates the team to go on a rampage this season.

Also, let's add Aaron Volpatti and Jack Maclellan to your list of Brown players in the NHL, in addition to the players Euler mentioned.


Well I've often said this about Bentley, and I've spent a good chunk of time watching both the Falcons and your very Bears over the years.

We play in the world's worst D1 rink that's not at AIC. But it's ours. And while it's cramped, dank, dark, damp, dingy, and any other bad word beginning with a 'd' (even our plumbing doesn't work and that first March rainstorm to melt the snow usually results in a flood somewhere in the arena), it's still ours, and I'll defend it to the day I die. It's still our home, even if it's not much. And we do love it in our own way.

Like you say, hopefully this does something to light a fire under Brown's derriere. Brown might not be a great D1 program, and the records surely indicate otherwise over the past 5-7 years. There have been some very low, very lean years. But it's still your program, and you still take pride in it. So maybe you were the 11th seed or 12th seed, but you still have a puncher's chance (like that time the team went to Albany by beating RPI and Yale). I don't think a player decommitting (with all of these details) nearly has as large an effect on them as it does on you as fans, since the coaching staff's job is to keep the players mindset on the game and not on the papers. But, like I said, they have to focus, like we do, on the players who are there, not the ones who aren't.

The players currently there are the ones who will dedicate and sacrifice for the honor of wearing a Brown jersey. And in the end, maybe this whole thing when a guy decides he doesn't want to go, will be a binding tool that brings the team together as one. It's truly an honor to represent any institution, and if a player does some type of disrespect to the program, then it's on the coaches to look at the players and say, "WE are Brown University, and WE will defend this jersey."

I don't think it'll be a "Roy's a dbag. Let's show him who's boss" attitude but it'll definitely be a "hey, everyone thinks we're nothing. no respect. let's go out there and show everyone what you're made of." Whether or not this obviously works is a different story, since the team is, in the end, still a work in progress.

I'm willing to bet Brendan Whittet has played the no respect card more than once.........like when Keith Allain gets mad about losing and refuses to shake the opposing coach's hand (haha!)

Onion Man
07-27-2012, 07:30 AM
We're not comparing NU to Harvard here, or MIT, or Brown, or Yale. The point is it's a good school. It's 2012, not 1970 when it was a commuter school that every kid picked as a safety school. To say you can't get a quality education at NU, BU or BC (and BU and NU are equal except one gives you job experience and an actual campus:cool:) is horribly false.

You have every right to be mad but what you said was ridiculous.

I would disagree that BU and NU are equal. BU is far superior academically to Northeastern. As a matter of fact, I dont think its even close.

And again, my point is any student athlete who knowingly chooses Northeastern or UVM over Brown is not really a student who ultimately cares about his academics. He may go on to a long and stories NHL career, but either way, having a Brown degree on his wall means a heckuva lot more than an NU one.

SkinsFan09
07-27-2012, 09:07 AM
I would disagree that BU and NU are equal. BU is far superior academically to Northeastern. As a matter of fact, I dont think its even close.

And again, my point is any student athlete who knowingly chooses Northeastern or UVM over Brown is not really a student who ultimately cares about his academics. He may go on to a long and stories NHL career, but either way, having a Brown degree on his wall means a heckuva lot more than an NU one.

For undergrad it's about equal. For grad school, BU has separation. You seem stuck in the past. NU's academics are miles ahead of what they were when it was a commuter engineering school.

It's not that hard to get into BU, they let in 58 percent of applicants. BU was ranked #53, NU #62. That's an irrelevant undergrad difference. Not that rankings mean ****. You go to a school that suits your needs most.

My point is you seem to be getting over the loss of Roy by pumping yourself up about going to Brown and crapping on other school's academics. Doubt I'd see anyone in the Yale thread doing the same to people who went to Brown. It's understandable but I have plenty of friends at Harvard and MIT to listen to if I want to hear about people getting a better education than me. But they would never imply that if you don't go to a Top 10 school, you are getting a crappy education.

Going from an Ivy to a still elite school doesn't mean you don't care about academics at all, that's poor logic.

UVM Cat in Texas
07-27-2012, 09:10 AM
And again, my point is any student athlete who knowingly chooses Northeastern or UVM over Brown is not really a student who ultimately cares about his academics.
And again, as others have pointed out, you can't conclude logically conclude that his decision to bypass Brown for another school means he doesn't care about academics. At best, it might mean he doesn't care about getting the best possible education, but it doesn't mean he doesn't care about education at all. At this point in his life, with him having a very good shot at playing in the NHL, I think I'd be a little more focused on the hockey side of life too, as opposed to the education side. If he can attend a premiere hockey school and get a quality education at the same time, well I'd probably do the same thing.

Look, I don't think anyone disputes that one gets a world-class education at Brown, or that Brown is academically superior to UVM or NU. But I don't think it's fair to conclude that this kid care nothing about academics.

Split-N
07-27-2012, 09:36 AM
I would disagree that BU and NU are equal. BU is far superior academically to Northeastern. As a matter of fact, I dont think its even close.

And again, my point is any student athlete who knowingly chooses Northeastern or UVM over Brown is not really a student who ultimately cares about his academics. He may go on to a long and stories NHL career, but either way, having a Brown degree on his wall means a heckuva lot more than an NU one.

Look, if you're going to make definitive statements like this, you could at least have your facts straight. Fact: Boston University is No. 53 on the USNWR rankings; Northeastern is No. 62. A spread of nine places in a list of some 300 institutions just doesn't square with your statement that "I don't think it's even close." And your statement about any athlete who attends Northeastern or UVM doesn't care about academics is patently absurd. I can't speak for Boston University or UVM or anyplace else but I can tell you for a fact that Northeastern athletes are expected to attend class and pass their coursework on the same basis as anyone else. (And no, Northeastern doesn't offer courses like Advanced Driver Education and Underwater Basketweaving.) At the end of the day, Northeastern athletes graduate with degrees that allow them to both succeed professionally and contribute to society.

And as has been pointed out by several posters, nobody, but nobody, is trying to equate Northeastern with Brown academically so get off that kick. Like I said earlier, I sympathize with the Brown fan base for what happened with the Roys, what with NU having gone through something similar last year. But irresponsible and factually baseless posts like yours try my patience.

vicb
07-27-2012, 11:04 AM
.....
Look, I don't think anyone disputes that one gets a world-class education at Brown, or that Brown is academically superior to UVM or NU. But I don't think it's fair to conclude that this kid care nothing about academics.

IMHO correct on this point. If the kid really did not care about an education don't you think he would be jumping to the Quebec MJHL??? I am wondering how much he may have been influenced by other players at the NHL training camp he went to???

Roy - I'm going to Brown.

Other kid - Are you nuts?? Why play for a last place team in a crappy league when you could be going to a great hockey school like {Insert any HE or NACH or Big10 school name} and get a good education, maybe play for a NC$$ National Championship and better prepare yourself for the NHL.

Roy - Hmmmm. May be I should rethink the Brown thing.

As Roy so aptly put it " Stuff happened".

engineerhockeyfan
07-27-2012, 11:31 AM
After reading his comments, you have to wonder what he is thinking.
If Northeastern is his destination, what is he thinking?
NU will have a tougher schedule but they do not exactly fill NHL rosters.
I can see him going to a hockey powerhouse, but is there one available?
JMO, but I don't see any advantage in going from Brown to Northeastern.

SkinsFan09
07-27-2012, 11:39 AM
After reading his comments, you have to wonder what he is thinking.
If Northeastern is his destination, what is he thinking?
NU will have a tougher schedule but they do not exactly fill NHL rosters.
I can see him going to a hockey powerhouse, but is there one available?
JMO, but I don't see any advantage in going from Brown to Northeastern.

Well, he was originally recruited by Keefe. But HEA > ECAC is what it comes down to.

FlagDUDE08
07-27-2012, 11:41 AM
If this recruit happens to go to a school you will be playing, are you going to boo him whenever he touches the puck?

Euler18
07-27-2012, 11:46 AM
Well I've often said this about Bentley, and I've spent a good chunk of time watching both the Falcons and your very Bears over the years. [...] Like you say, hopefully this does something to light a fire under Brown's derriere. Brown might not be a great D1 program, and the records surely indicate otherwise over the past 5-7 years. There have been some very low, very lean years. But it's still your program, and you still take pride in it. So maybe you were the 11th seed or 12th seed, but you still have a puncher's chance (like that time the team went to Albany by beating RPI and Yale). I don't think a player decommitting (with all of these details) nearly has as large an effect on them as it does on you as fans, since the coaching staff's job is to keep the players mindset on the game and not on the papers. But, like I said, they have to focus, like we do, on the players who are there, not the ones who aren't.

The players currently there are the ones who will dedicate and sacrifice for the honor of wearing a Brown jersey. And in the end, maybe this whole thing when a guy decides he doesn't want to go, will be a binding tool that brings the team together as one. It's truly an honor to represent any institution, and if a player does some type of disrespect to the program, then it's on the coaches to look at the players and say, "WE are Brown University, and WE will defend this jersey." [...]

I'm willing to bet Brendan Whittet has played the no respect card more than once.........like when Keith Allain gets mad about losing and refuses to shake the opposing coach's hand (haha!)

Terrific post, Humanoid. Thanks for your support!

Brunofan
07-27-2012, 12:07 PM
This comparing education stuff is crazy, all of the schools mentioned in the thread are quality institutions. I'm proud of my Brown degree as well, but we all know the further you go along in your career it is all about what you have done......and what you can offer, not the name of a school on a sheet of paper.

The line that got a rise out of me in this thread was the thought that he was leaving for "better coaching" (among other things). Obviously a Jerry York is at the top of his profession, (many argue that Parker is past his prime) - but supporters at Brown would stack Brendan up against anyone in the country.

I don't wish that the Roy rot in hell, but there could be a big impact on the program as a whole with this one high profile player leaving the program. I had anticipated with the excitement around this player, we would initially see an increased interest from alums and the students at the early games this season. If winning were to follow, and Meehan was a packed house again - everyone knows that the whole experience changes for the players, the students, the alumns.......and for future players that are considering Brown. I was hoping that a marquee player like Roy might draw another really high profile prospect or two at Brown over the next few years that would really solidify the program. Based on reports, we have a solid incoming freshman class - but Roy was a potential game changer both on and off the ice.