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The myth of "non-scholarship" programs

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  • #31
    Re: The myth of "non-scholarship" programs

    Originally posted by LTsatch View Post
    If you have a musically talented child, send them to Yale. A donor left 100 million the Yale University School of Music, so much money that any students attending the music school do so tuition free.
    As someone else pointed out... only when they get to grad school.
    It's also worth noting that there are several other schools in the musical community (Curtis, Colburn) that don't charge tuition... And some like Juilliard where 95% of the student population receives a full scholarship anyway.
    That being said the Yale School of Music certainly has seen an influx of applications the last four or so years since the donation was made.
    Let's go Terriers!

    It hasn't taken me long to realize, everybody here knows a lot more than me about college hockey...

    1971, 1972, 1978, 1995, 2009

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    • #32
      Re: The myth of "non-scholarship" programs

      Does Union still have a scholarship program for foreign (or was it just Canadian?) students??
      CCT '77 & '78
      4 kids
      5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
      1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

      ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
      - Benjamin Franklin

      Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

      I want to live forever. So far, so good.

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      • #33
        Re: The myth of "non-scholarship" programs

        Originally posted by joecct View Post
        Does Union still have a scholarship program for foreign (or was it just Canadian?) students??
        They still do. It's all foreign students as far as I know.
        sigpic

        Let's Go 'Tute!

        Maxed out at 2,147,483,647 at 10:00 AM EDT 9/17/07.

        2012 Poser Of The Year

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        • #34
          Re: The myth of "non-scholarship" programs

          The other "sleeper" like the non-scholarship school funding is that many schools treat Canadians as "foreign" students making admission easier in many/most cases. Getting a student admitted is
          many time harder than it is keeping them eligible. My brother is a dram professor and he's tol me that numerous super potential drama majors aren't admitted cuz their math SAT scores are too low,
          making their total SAT score unacceptable. However, if the student is 7' 2" and has a good shooting touch..........no problem, mon!

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          • #35
            Re: The myth of "non-scholarship" programs

            Originally posted by Ralph Baer View Post
            They still do. It's all foreign students as far as I know.
            I assume Union's ducks are in order, right? Scholarships for Canadian athletes are what got Geneseo, Potsdam, and Buff State in big trouble with the NCAA a few years back. Or do you think there should be some nervous folks in the AD in Schenectady?
            #OneKnight

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            • #36
              Re: The myth of "non-scholarship" programs

              Originally posted by DaveStPaul View Post
              Wow, is that true? Interesting. So they don't follow the generic "you have four years of eligibility, use them whenever" rule that's the norm for American college sports?
              The NCAA rules say that you have 5 years upon starting undergrad to use your 4 years of eligibility.

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              • #37
                Re: The myth of "non-scholarship" programs

                Originally posted by KnightsOfTheRound View Post
                I assume Union's ducks are in order, right? Scholarships for Canadian athletes are what got Geneseo, Potsdam, and Buff State in big trouble with the NCAA a few years back. Or do you think there should be some nervous folks in the AD in Schenectady?
                No self-respecting duck would ever live in Schenectady.
                sigpic

                Let's Go 'Tute!

                Maxed out at 2,147,483,647 at 10:00 AM EDT 9/17/07.

                2012 Poser Of The Year

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                • #38
                  Re: The myth of "non-scholarship" programs

                  Originally posted by kdilks View Post
                  The NCAA rules say that you have 5 years upon starting undergrad to use your 4 years of eligibility.
                  Yes, but Ivy rules forbid graduate students, period. There have been many cases (the ones I know of are lacrosse) where an Ivy player only dresses varsity for his final 3 years (or has a year off for medical reasons), and then plays the next year for another university while working on his grad degree.
                  If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

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                  • #39
                    Re: The myth of "non-scholarship" programs

                    Originally posted by wasmania View Post
                    Do you just make stuff up?
                    Do you, or are you a Michigan cherry-picker?

                    per student endowment as per collegeconfidential.com [source]:

                    Notre Dame University: $548,689
                    Hamilton College: $437,214
                    Colorado College: $237,791
                    Cornell University: $215,569
                    Union College: $175,911

                    Dogs in the manger have equated their silly claims of schools with corrupt [but successful] hockey scholarship programs to per student endowments. The numbers don't work. Furthermore, if the richest schools successfully risked sneaky scholarships then the top ten college football and basketball teams would be dominated by the Ivy League every year. Nobody but a complete dolt or a manic zealot would take such a risk to sponsor a hockey program which generates so little revenue. Replace paranoia and conspiracy theory with logic and basic financial reality in discussions of college hockey. Less yapping, more light.
                    Last edited by Osorojo; 03-31-2012, 08:39 PM.

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                    • #40
                      Re: The myth of "non-scholarship" programs

                      LynahFan is right. The way the fifth year is usually used is by taking a semester off to delay graduation if, for example, there is a medical issue.

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                      • #41
                        Re: The myth of "non-scholarship" programs

                        Originally posted by KnightsOfTheRound View Post
                        I assume Union's ducks are in order, right? Scholarships for Canadian athletes are what got Geneseo, Potsdam, and Buff State in big trouble with the NCAA a few years back. Or do you think there should be some nervous folks in the AD in Schenectady?
                        IF, and this is what got the SUNY's in trouble, the vast proportion of financial aid packages to foreigners go to athletes then you have an instance of "athletic grants in aid" which are a no-no for a D-III school.

                        For example, you have 30 Canadians at your school all receiving financial aid. 29 of them are athletes. This sets off a red light.

                        Originally posted by Ralph Baer View Post
                        No self-respecting duck would ever live in Schenectady.
                        But nobody can find a Colonie of them in Troy, either.
                        CCT '77 & '78
                        4 kids
                        5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
                        1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

                        ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
                        - Benjamin Franklin

                        Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

                        I want to live forever. So far, so good.

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                        • #42
                          Re: The myth of "non-scholarship" programs

                          Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
                          Yes, but Ivy rules forbid graduate students, period. There have been many cases (the ones I know of are lacrosse) where an Ivy player only dresses varsity for his final 3 years (or has a year off for medical reasons), and then plays the next year for another university while working on his grad degree.
                          Yeah, it's called the graduate transfer exception, where you don't have to sit out a year if you're switching schools because you've graduate undergrad and are pursuing post-graduate school. It's been happening with more frequency in college football the past few years, to the point where the SEC no longer allows the graduate transfer exception. With Russel Wilson exploiting this at Wisconsin last year, I assumed it was relatively common knowledge.

                          My point was that, contrary to the post I was responding to, it's not like this is preventing somebody that didn't do varsity sports in undergrad from having a full 4 years of eligibility at grad school. You're almost always only talking about 1 year of eligibility, and it's generally not to the team's advantage to get a player that's only going to be around for one year, nor to the student's advantage to be distracted by athletics during their first year of graduate school at an Ivy.

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                          • #43
                            Re: The myth of "non-scholarship" programs

                            So, to put it in layman's terms, if your parents are not wealthy, and you play hockey for Union, you do not pay anywhere near the full published tuition cost.
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                            The reason for the talent in the west? Because MN didn't rely on Canada.

                            Originally posted by MN Pond Hockey
                            Menards could have sold a lot of rope

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                            • #44
                              Re: The myth of "non-scholarship" programs

                              I'm guessing if your parents are not wealthy and you satisfy some stringent entrance requirements and are admitted by Union you do not pay anywhere near the full published tuition cost whether or not you play hockey or the tuba or anything else.

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                              • #45
                                Re: The myth of "non-scholarship" programs

                                Let me clarify.. What got a bunch of D-III schools in trouble was something called a Canadian Student Incentive Grant (or similar words). It usually was around $10K / year. What the NCAA found was that almost all the CSIG's went to athletes and that made it a no-no.
                                CCT '77 & '78
                                4 kids
                                5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
                                1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

                                ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
                                - Benjamin Franklin

                                Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

                                I want to live forever. So far, so good.

                                Comment

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