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TigerFan86-87
03-30-2012, 01:43 PM
Osorojo, this could be the best post of yours I've ever read. Bravo!
The sun shines on a dog's butt every now and then, too.

TigerFan86-87
03-30-2012, 01:45 PM
While "financial aid" supposedly is needs-based, there are all sorts of menial jobs that need to be done on campus as well. Who's to say that a person doing 30 minutes of work isn't paid for 2 hours of work?
If I remember correctly there are actually NCAA rules (at least in D-I, not sure of the others) against student-athletes taking jobs while in school for fear of exactly what you reference here.

LtPowers
03-30-2012, 01:51 PM
I doubt that the Ivies have an Academic Index http://home.comcast.net/~charles517/ivyai.html for musicians and actresses so one of them doesnít bend rules to admit Jodie Foster.

Jodie Foster didn't need the rules bent; she graduated magna cum laude from Yale.


Powers &8^]

LynahFan
03-30-2012, 02:02 PM
From their website
http://music.yale.edu/admissions/financial.html
"A full tuition award and fellowship are made to all students who are admitted to the Yale School of Music, with the exception of those receiving awards from other agencies."
So they're not waiving tuition, they're making an award.

I got wait-listed there for graduate school, and sometimes since then have had that "what if I'd gotten in / how would my life be different?" feeling. Now, though, it's, "And if I had gotten in, not only would I have $400,000,000 in loans still to pay off, the ******s who go there now have zero tuition!!1!! :mad::mad::mad:"

:pThat's graduate school - totally different ballgame. Grad students at Ivies aren't allowed to play on varsity sports teams anyway.

FreshFish
03-30-2012, 02:12 PM
If I remember correctly there are actually NCAA rules (at least in D-I, not sure of the others) against student-athletes taking jobs while in school for fear of exactly what you reference here.

must have changed since i was in college then...for me the work was swabbing bathrooms during the week and cleaning the party rooms on Saturday and Sunday morning. Now, I really did have to do the work as my supervisor would inspect them regularly. I was guaranteed pay for 2 hour minimum weekdays and 4 hour minimum Sat and Sun AM, and I definitely earned my pay even if it didn't take me the full hours to finish the job. My boss wanted the work done right and was willing to pay (the bathrooms were where all the visiting parents would stop during campus visits). If you routinely clean the bathrooms every weekday (which I did) they didn't get that dirty from one day to the next. The party rooms, ugh, that was a different story. It would take 2-1/2 hours to get them clean, really nasty work sometime between the spilled beer and the vomit.

I also learned a few good tricks which you can use to impress your spouse: when you are done cleaning the sink, wipe all waterspots off the fixtures, it really makes a difference in how nice they look, even if you don't care, she does.

Osorojo
03-30-2012, 02:17 PM
The shockingly modest "Your endowment is bigger than ours" accusation is not supported by facts either. Recent reports by Notre Dame, Hamilton, the University of Michigan and the Academy of the New Church System show that each has a significantly higher per-student endowment than either Cornell University or Union College has. Of course if facts don't matter then even he mangiest dog of an argument shines brightly.

sk8tronthepond
03-30-2012, 03:27 PM
If I remember correctly there are actually NCAA rules (at least in D-I, not sure of the others) against student-athletes taking jobs while in school for fear of exactly what you reference here.

At the D-1 level, at schools that offer financial aid, you can be packaged in 3 ways. Your financial aid package can consist of 1, 2 or all 3 of these components. They are in no particular order - 1) Parental contribution based on parents assets vs liabilities. 2) Grants and loans to students. 3) Work study. Of course, all of this is based upon the financial aid matrix, which is set by the individual institution and changes year to year.

wasmania
03-30-2012, 09:49 PM
The shockingly modest "Your endowment is bigger than ours" accusation is not supported by facts either. Recent reports by Notre Dame, Hamilton, the University of Michigan and the Academy of the New Church System show that each has a significantly higher per-student endowment than either Cornell University or Union College has. Of course if facts don't matter then even he mangiest dog of an argument shines brightly.

Do you just make stuff up?

2011

Michigan Enrollment: 42761
Endowment $7,835,000,000
Endpowment per student: $183,230

Cornell Enrollment 20939
Endowment $5,059,000,000
Endowment per student $241,600

duper
03-30-2012, 10:33 PM
Do you just make stuff up?umm... yes

DaveStPaul
03-31-2012, 11:12 AM
That's graduate school - totally different ballgame.

Right. I was under the impression the tuition award is only for graduate students. Which affects the argument on Ivies and non-scholarships. Having said that, . . .


Grad students at Ivies aren't allowed to play on varsity sports teams anyway.

Wow, is that true? Interesting. So they don't follow the generic "you have four years of eligibility, use them whenever" rule that's the norm for American college sports?

quiddlet
03-31-2012, 02:18 PM
If you have a musically talented child, send them to Yale. A donor left 100 million the Yale University School of Music, so much money that any students attending the music school do so tuition free.

As someone else pointed out... only when they get to grad school.
It's also worth noting that there are several other schools in the musical community (Curtis, Colburn) that don't charge tuition... And some like Juilliard where 95% of the student population receives a full scholarship anyway.
That being said the Yale School of Music certainly has seen an influx of applications the last four or so years since the donation was made.

joecct
03-31-2012, 02:43 PM
Does Union still have a scholarship program for foreign (or was it just Canadian?) students??

Ralph Baer
03-31-2012, 02:47 PM
Does Union still have a scholarship program for foreign (or was it just Canadian?) students??

They still do. It's all foreign students as far as I know.

FRICKER
03-31-2012, 02:57 PM
The other "sleeper" like the non-scholarship school funding is that many schools treat Canadians as "foreign" students making admission easier in many/most cases. Getting a student admitted is
many time harder than it is keeping them eligible. My brother is a dram professor and he's tol me that numerous super potential drama majors aren't admitted cuz their math SAT scores are too low,
making their total SAT score unacceptable. However, if the student is 7' 2" and has a good shooting touch..........no problem, mon!

KnightsOfTheRound
03-31-2012, 03:23 PM
They still do. It's all foreign students as far as I know.

I assume Union's ducks are in order, right? Scholarships for Canadian athletes are what got Geneseo, Potsdam, and Buff State in big trouble with the NCAA a few years back. Or do you think there should be some nervous folks in the AD in Schenectady? :eek:

kdilks
03-31-2012, 04:24 PM
Wow, is that true? Interesting. So they don't follow the generic "you have four years of eligibility, use them whenever" rule that's the norm for American college sports?

The NCAA rules say that you have 5 years upon starting undergrad to use your 4 years of eligibility.

Ralph Baer
03-31-2012, 04:38 PM
I assume Union's ducks are in order, right? Scholarships for Canadian athletes are what got Geneseo, Potsdam, and Buff State in big trouble with the NCAA a few years back. Or do you think there should be some nervous folks in the AD in Schenectady? :eek: No self-respecting duck would ever live in Schenectady. :D

LynahFan
03-31-2012, 04:38 PM
The NCAA rules say that you have 5 years upon starting undergrad to use your 4 years of eligibility.Yes, but Ivy rules forbid graduate students, period. There have been many cases (the ones I know of are lacrosse) where an Ivy player only dresses varsity for his final 3 years (or has a year off for medical reasons), and then plays the next year for another university while working on his grad degree.

Osorojo
03-31-2012, 05:27 PM
Do you just make stuff up?

Do you, or are you a Michigan cherry-picker?

per student endowment as per collegeconfidential.com [source]:

Notre Dame University: $548,689
Hamilton College: $437,214
Colorado College: $237,791
Cornell University: $215,569
Union College: $175,911

Dogs in the manger have equated their silly claims of schools with corrupt [but successful] hockey scholarship programs to per student endowments. The numbers don't work. Furthermore, if the richest schools successfully risked sneaky scholarships then the top ten college football and basketball teams would be dominated by the Ivy League every year. Nobody but a complete dolt or a manic zealot would take such a risk to sponsor a hockey program which generates so little revenue. Replace paranoia and conspiracy theory with logic and basic financial reality in discussions of college hockey. Less yapping, more light.

goblue78
03-31-2012, 05:29 PM
LynahFan is right. The way the fifth year is usually used is by taking a semester off to delay graduation if, for example, there is a medical issue.