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ericredaxe
04-11-2012, 10:30 AM
With all due respect, RPI and Holy Cross have next to zero national name recognition and do not have the resources of a UConn when it decides to do something. We saw RPI at UConn this year. They might have had 25 fans there and they finished fourth in the tournament.

According to Wikipedia, Holy Cross has an endowment of over 600 milliion, while UConn is more like 300 milliion.

I'm not nececarially advocating for Holy Cross over UConn but as a relatively wealthy small school, they could make the finiancial comitment if they wanted to.

The argument can be made for HC though. Geographically they are a much better fit, and do fit the mold of the schools like PC, BC, Merrimack that are already in the conference.

Craig P.
04-11-2012, 10:40 AM
When a team applies to a conference, how is it typically handled? League vote? By whom? Coaches? ADs? Is it a majority vote? Or does it have to be unanimous?

I'm not sure of the precise mechanics, but it would certainly be the ADs who would make the decision.

FlagDUDE08
04-11-2012, 10:57 AM
With all due respect, RPI and Holy Cross have next to zero national name recognition and do not have the resources of a UConn when it decides to do something. We saw RPI at UConn this year. They might have had 25 fans there and they finished fourth in the tournament.

Given you were there during our renovations, you probably didn't notice our national championship banners. Yes, plural.

johnk
04-11-2012, 11:15 AM
With all due respect, RPI and Holy Cross have next to zero national name recognition and do not have the resources of a UConn when it decides to do something. We saw RPI at UConn this year. They might have had 25 fans there and they finished fourth in the tournament.

UConn is the right choice for Hockey East. Now with respects to RPI vs UConn, RPI has more money by a large margin, more fans by a large margin, a better arena by a large margin and more name recognition as far as hockey by a large margin. Have fun being a complete bottom feeder in Hockey East for the next decade or two.

amherstblackbear
04-11-2012, 11:30 AM
According to Wikipedia, Holy Cross has an endowment of over 600 milliion, while UConn is more like 300 milliion.

I'm not nececarially advocating for Holy Cross over UConn but as a relatively wealthy small school, they could make the finiancial comitment if they wanted to.

The argument can be made for HC though. Geographically they are a much better fit, and do fit the mold of the schools like PC, BC, Merrimack that are already in the conference.

Apples and oranges.

Some elite public research universities have large endowments, but most don't. They can rely on state support in a pinch, and for major capital construction.

If a private institution squanders its endowment, it's curtains.

Rover
04-11-2012, 11:33 AM
According to Wikipedia, Holy Cross has an endowment of over 600 milliion, while UConn is more like 300 milliion.

I'm not nececarially advocating for Holy Cross over UConn but as a relatively wealthy small school, they could make the finiancial comitment if they wanted to.

The argument can be made for HC though. Geographically they are a much better fit, and do fit the mold of the schools like PC, BC, Merrimack that are already in the conference.

Interesting. I would reconsider if I thought HC would commit to the program but it seems we have a lot better chance of that with UConn. Now if you want to trade Northeastern for Holy Cross I could be persuaded...

RSTuthill
04-11-2012, 11:39 AM
Have fun being a complete bottom feeder in Hockey East for the next decade or two.
How many years did it take for Union to get a win in the ECAC? Two? Three? Not gonna be like that for UConn. They will do OK, not the bottom but also not in the top half right away. They won't be bottom feeders in the second decade. How long did it take them to win the Big East football conference? And perhaps you noticed the Huskies' record against UML this year? Woulda been three points out of four if the second game had not been in their own tournament final with unlimited overtime.

johnk
04-11-2012, 11:45 AM
How many years did it take for Union to get a win in the ECAC? Two? Three? Not gonna be like that for UConn. They will do OK, not the bottom but also not in the top half right away. They won't be bottom feeders in the second decade. How long did it take them to win the Big East football conference? And perhaps you noticed the Huskies' record against UML this year? Woulda been three points out of four if the second game had not been in their own tournament final with unlimited overtime.


Brown beat Union twice. So what. UConn has a long way to go to even reach the level of a UVM or Umass Amherst. This isn't football and the Big East is a weak football conference. Time will tell.

Ralph Baer
04-11-2012, 11:55 AM
Doesn't RPI get frequent mention in Tom Clancy novels?

Yes.

Ralph Baer
04-11-2012, 12:05 PM
With all due respect, RPI and Holy Cross have next to zero national name recognition and do not have the resources of a UConn when it decides to do something. We saw RPI at UConn this year. They might have had 25 fans there and they finished fourth in the tournament. RPI did finish 4th -- no denying that, and I was embarrassed, but it is hard to believe that there were only 25 fans in attendance. Family of players from CT would have been more than that alone. :)

As to name recognition, I assume that you are referring to in athletics, not academics. I will agree to that overall, as people always seem to spell Rensselaer as Rochester. ;) OTOH, as far as hockey is concerned, no contest in favor of RPI, and you know that. BTW, your credibility went way down when you included HC in the mix. I had heard of them, and believe me, I try to ignore church-sponsored schools.

RSTuthill
04-11-2012, 12:12 PM
Ralph, HC is best known athletically these days for its annual pounding by the UConn women's BB team in front of 10,000 to 15,000 UConn fans:):)

brassbonanza
04-11-2012, 12:17 PM
UConn is the right choice for Hockey East. Now with respects to RPI vs UConn, RPI has more money by a large margin, more fans by a large margin, a better arena by a large margin and more name recognition as far as hockey by a large margin. Have fun being a complete bottom feeder in Hockey East for the next decade or two.

While RPI is a better hockey program and has more tradition, the UConn brand name and it's general fan base dwarfs that of RPI. I suspect NBC Sports/NESN also would be much, much happier with UConn as team 12 than RPI. The program and facilities are in grave need of upgrade in order to be successful in HE, but the upside on every front for UConn is much higher than that of RPI and on another planet from Holy Cross. Please don't make me go to Worcester every season.

RITProf
04-11-2012, 12:29 PM
people always seem to spell Rensselaer as Rochester. ;)

Can't blame them for that! ;) (Better than being called Troy Institute of Technology .... I know, I know ... "never heard that one before".)

RSTuthill
04-11-2012, 12:30 PM
This isn't football and the Big East is a weak football conference.
As BC found out with their multiple conference championships and BCS bowl bids when they were in it.;);)

dggoddard
04-11-2012, 12:57 PM
Notre Dame told the NCHC that they only wanted to play 20-24 conference games and they wanted their own deal with NBC. Knowing that there was no way to schedule that many non-conference games out west, they told Notre Dame to pound sand.

Now Notre Dame has moved their act out East, just as the cupcakes are demanding serious appearance fees [home gate money] for non-reciprocal visits.

Notre Dame is fine because they have all the Big Ten schools to visit home and away.

kingdobbs
04-11-2012, 01:03 PM
When a team applies to a conference, how is it typically handled? League vote? By whom? Coaches? ADs? Is it a majority vote? Or does it have to be unanimous?

Has UConn officially applied?

Without access to the league by-laws, my guess would be membership is based on a 2/3 or 3/4 vote of the league presidents (or athletic directors, perhaps). 2/3 of the voting membership would be 7 yeas (without Notre Dame; 8 with), and 3/4 would be 9 with Notre Dame, 8 without.


The argument can be made for HC though. Geographically they are a much better fit, and do fit the mold of the schools like PC, BC, Merrimack that are already in the conference.

Is more teams in the same box really what Hockey East needs moving forward, though, especially in the light of the NBCSN contract? Television has to be a concern, and while an upgraded program is still an unknown, adding the #30 Hartford-New Haven DMA to their portfolio is not a null proposition. HEA has a nice lockdown on the #7 Boston DMA (with 6 of its 11 teams there; the DMA is expansive enough that UNH is a part of it), but its next largest is Providence (#53), and the other markets it accesses (Springfield, Burlington/Plattsburgh, South Bend, Bangor) aren't real needle movers. Both UConn and RPI are new TV markets; Albany's not great but it's something.

Geographic fidelity is all well and good, but it's not like UConn is some far-flung outpost, unlike the last two teams added by the league; it's within an hour of both Amherst and Providence, and close enough to Boston. It's not going to strain budgets to go to Hartford or Storrs instead of Worcester.


I'm not sure of the precise mechanics, but it would certainly be the ADs who would make the decision.

It might be the actual league presidents that take a vote, but I have a hard time believing, in this case, that they wouldn't rubber-stamp the recommendations of their ADs.

johnk
04-11-2012, 01:09 PM
As BC found out with their multiple conference championships and BCS bowl bids when they were in it.;);)

What's your point. Are you saying the Big East is not a weak football conference?

claver2010
04-11-2012, 01:20 PM
As BC found out with their multiple conference championships and BCS bowl bids when they were in it.;);)

Yes because the BE in 2004 is exactly the same as the BE in 2010.

Anyways, don't allow them in until they have the money to upgrade that dump. Not "plans to raise" actual $.

LTsatch
04-11-2012, 10:22 PM
Interesting article from The Hartford Courant

UConn Hockey Upgrade Would Mean State Players Could Stay Home

Jeff Jacobs

April 12, 2012

Whenever John Gardner, the endless fountain of Connecticut hockey talent, asks his players where they want to go to college, he inevitably hears the same four letters.

"BC, BU," said the Avon Old Farms coach of nearly four decades. "BC, BU. BC, BU."

Tom Cross, the long-time coach at Simsbury High, also knows about recruiting from the parental side. His son Tommy, the BC Eagles senior captain, raised the NCAA championship trophy aloft last weekend in Tampa. Yet not so long ago, Tommy was a prep school kid at Westminster.

"He was 12 when he saw BC win the national championship in Albany, and I think that had a major impact," said Cross, who played his college hockey at Dartmouth. "As with a lot of kids in New England, it came down to BC and BU."
ENTER TO WIN A TOYOTA PRIUS

As UConn seriously considers — we do mean seriously — a major upgrade from Atlantic Hockey to Hockey East, it's always good to know up front the biggest obstacles. Money, facilities, Title IX, BC, BU, money and money, yes, they would rank as the toughest opponents.

Like the rest of college athletics, hockey is going through its own conference realignments. With Notre Dame moving to Hockey East as an 11th team in 2013-14, the conference is looking for No. 12 for balance.

"This is kind of a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for UConn," one college source said. "It's not going to come again soon. If it wasn't for the money, it would be an easy decision to do it."

As UConn seriously considers the world of full-scholarship competition, it is worth having this debate: If a state regularly produces elite talent in a sport, does that state's flagship university carry a burden of competing at the elite level in that sport? Is there some sort of an imperative of the athletic people, by the athletic people, for the athletic people? Or is it strictly bottom-line finances? The debate becomes more interesting, because Gov. Dannel P. Malloy is championing the cause to bring college hockey to the XL Center as a way to help downtown.

Make no mistake. Connecticut produces hockey talent. In a study by College Hockey Inc., Connecticut ranked 10th among the states with 37 Division I players. Connecticut is 29th in population at about 3.6 million. Among the states with at least 20 players, Connecticut ranks fourth in players per population behind Minnesota (181, 5.3 million), Massachusetts (107, 6.5 million) and Michigan (131, 9.8 million).

More than that, Connecticut has had half a dozen key performers in the past five Frozen Fours. Goalie Jared DeMichiel from Avon led RIT into the 2010 Frozen Four. He would be equivalent to the star of the VCU Final Four basketball team. Ben Smith, Cam Atkinson, Pat Mullane and Cross played pivotal roles as BC won three of the past five national titles. We're talking big plays and big goals here. Nick Bonino, from Farmington and Avon Old Farms, led BU to the 2009 national title. Some of these guys are in the NHL now.

"Is this an aberration?" Cross said. "I don't think so. There are really good hockey players in Connecticut."

And in case you forgot, Cheshire and Avon Old Farms produced Brian Leetch, arguably the greatest American in the history of the sport.

"I think it is a long overdue thing for UConn to be in the Hockey East," Gardner said. "It would be great for Connecticut hockey. I think UConn could compete easily for all the kids in the prep schools and junior programs. There is a ton of talent playing in Connecticut right now."

Although UConn technically competes in Division I, the school gives no scholarships. Hockey East would mean 18. Depending on how many out-of-state players were used, it would be a cost of up to $720,000, according to a school-commissioned study by Stafford Sports. The study also showed a need to add about 15 women's scholarships, probably in rowing and tennis, to meet Title IX requirements.

Could UConn have 10 in-state players on its total roster if it went Hockey East? "Sure," Gardner said. "If they wanted."

Minnesota had 23 in-state players among 27 this past season. UMass had eight Massachusetts kids and two from Connecticut. BC had four Connecticut guys and Harvard had three. BU had only Patrick MacGregor of Hamden. Yale had none listed on its roster, while Quinnipiac listed only one.

"Quinnipiac has gone after the older, stronger Canadian kid [15 were on the roster]," Gardner said. "They've done a good job. The facility is great. But they'll be the Forever .500s in my mind. It's a very stable path. But they don't take chances to be great. Will they win a national championship? I don't think so."

"Don't get hung up on getting the Tommy Crosses and Pat Mullanes at this point. BC will always be BC. There are lots of kids at other Hockey East schools and the ECAC that definitely would be interested in UConn. There are prep schools in Connecticut, with the kids from out of state, who are playing in UConn's own backyard. UConn could be very competitive in Hockey East."

Said Cross: "It will be a process just like it is in other sports at other state universities. There will be a couple of talented kids who'll go, have some success, and the high-end kid will follow suit."

Sounds like Chris Smith with UConn basketball and Dan Orlovsky with football, doesn't it?

College hockey is not a money-maker. Profits are rare. Of the 58 Division I schools — Penn State will make it 59 next year — only eight play football in a BCS league and Division I basketball. If UConn were to pull hockey off successfully, it would be in elite status.

The bad news is the pro forma by Stafford Sports, which shows a current loss of $515,000 and a projected $2.2 million loss with a move to Hockey East. That includes scholarships.

Beyond tickets, there are possibilities for sponsorships, venue revenue and fundraising. The sport does have many players from affluent backgrounds in the state and it would be a good tie to Fairfield County. There is room for financial growth.

One thing that shouldn't be underestimated is the UConn brand. When Todd Krygier of UConn told his NHL Whalers teammates in 1989 where he was from, they thought he was saying, "Yukon." After three men's and seven women's national basketball titles and a BCS bowl appearance, only the sports ignorant don't know the school now.

There has been scuttlebutt through the years about exactly why the necessary ice-making piping wasn't installed at Gampel Pavilion when it was built. Suffice to say, it would have been nice to have a multipurpose facility like BC and UMass. Instead, the Stafford study projected $10.8 million in improvements at Freitas Ice Forum. A big commitment. Students love hockey. It's a campus sport. Malloy and UConn are going to have to have a real meeting of the minds about the XL Center. Between semesters, against Yale and Quinnipiac, especially BC, or with a hoops-hockey Saturday doubleheader, that would be great for downtown. It also costs about $20,000 to play a game at the XL Center right now.

There's an awful lot to digest and not that much time to make a call. By May, a college source says, we'll be able to read the tea leaves. By June, we'll know if there will be a move. Those who know say there's enough talent in our state to make it.

J.D.
04-11-2012, 10:36 PM
People are making this out to be UConn's call. It's not. It's up to Hockey East. Has there been anything at all from Bertagna?