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RENCEB
03-26-2012, 09:17 PM
haha. fair enough!

In Hockey East, we've seen/dealt with a suddenly appearing, oft-over-the-top, ballyhoo band of Merrimack fans who not only avoid the practice of: "act like you've been there before", but think everything they do should be heralded as the greatest thing since the wheel.:confused: ...although I am impressed with the use of "oft" ;)

MinnesotaNorthStar
03-26-2012, 10:19 PM
The ECAC/Ivy teams also have a built in disadvantage in the number of games played compared to the non-Ivy's, they don't have the time or games to develop the SOS. I think the fact that Union got out west this year really helped them realize that they are on a level with the top western teams. Yale is heading to Denver and C.C. next season and will play BC away which I am glad to see. Another example of ECAC strength, Yale is a .500 team this year and split with Union beating them in their barn handily this year, they should have beaten BC at home this year as well until they blew the lead, of course being a young team they also lost to the worst ranked team in the nation. I think you will see Union Cornell, Havard Yale and possibly QPac make a good showing next year.First of all, nobody makes the ivies wait until almost November to start. Secondly, looking at Yale's non-conference schedule, they played 7 non-conference games. UND played....7 non-conference games. Non-conference games are huge in the PWR. So this argument is complete crap.

Also, if you blow a lead, you shouldn't have won the game. That's how hockey works. You score more goals in 3 periods, you win. It doesn't matter who leads the majority of the game.

cornellgradyalefan
03-26-2012, 11:03 PM
First of all, nobody makes the ivies wait until almost November to start.

First of all, you're wrong. The people who make the Ivy hockey teams wait until the end of October to start are called the Ivy Presidents. They collectively made a decision to start the season later so that academics are prioritized over athletics.

Second of all, you're right. The number of non-conference games played by Yale and UND are equal and the quality of the opposition is not. But give Yale credit for going west to DU and CC next year as well as scheduling a home and home with BC. Yale needs to maintain that level of non-conference competition going forward. I would like to see them eliminate all of the softies from the schedule, but given the demand to play regional teams like Sacred Heart, that's probably not going to happen.

LTsatch
03-26-2012, 11:28 PM
:confused: ...although I am impressed with the use of "oft" ;)

I am still waiting to use "Ne'er-do-well" aka "an idle worthless person" here, just biding my time! "Narcoleptic endomorph" is second on my list.

MinnesotaNorthStar
03-27-2012, 12:26 AM
First of all, you're wrong. The people who make the Ivy hockey teams wait until the end of October to start are called the Ivy Presidents. They collectively made a decision to start the season later so that academics are prioritized over athletics.

Second of all, you're right. The number of non-conference games played by Yale and UND are equal and the quality of the opposition is not. But give Yale credit for going west to DU and CC next year as well as scheduling a home and home with BC. Yale needs to maintain that level of non-conference competition going forward. I would like to see them eliminate all of the softies from the schedule, but given the demand to play regional teams like Sacred Heart, that's probably not going to happen.That was my point. The NCAA doesn't make them. They do it to themselves.

As to the quality of the opposition...that's on Yale for not scheduling that way. Though it looks like they're starting to do that with DU/CC/BC. That's going to be quite the non-con schedule. Good for them.

css228
03-27-2012, 12:48 AM
That was my point. The NCAA doesn't make them. They do it to themselves.

As to the quality of the opposition...that's on Yale for not scheduling that way. Though it looks like they're starting to do that with DU/CC/BC. That's going to be quite the non-con schedule. Good for them. But you say that like every team in the league can get that type of schedule, with the home games they need to make the program financially viable. I know at Cornell we refuse to play at any school unless they guarantee us games at Lynah, otherwise we'll only play a neutral site where we can get part of the gate. Now a program like Cornell can do that (next years OOC is looking like its CC opening weekend at Lynah, @ DU sometime during the season, Michigan at MSG over Thanksgiving, and whatever 2 of UMD, Ferris State, or Maine we get to play in Estero), and Yale now seems to be able to do that, but how does Clarkson get a CC or a DU to come to its building? And for schools that won't come to its building like Michigan, Clarkson and Colgate really wouldn't create big enough draws to play at place like MSG because Cornell is basically the only school in the league that can pull something like that off, and even then they need a huge opponent like BU to sell seats as well (see Cornell-Colgate attendance at the Pru). So unless you want Tech, SLU, Colgate, and company to play on the road for the minimal guarantees schools like Minny are giving them, because while Minny might come to Lynah, they're not going to Cheel, Appleton, or Starr anytime soon, they effectively need to have some of those games against AHA squads where they can essentially do the same thing in order for their programs to not just be a total drain on athletics funding. So its tougher than you think.

Fishman'81
03-27-2012, 03:09 AM
The other thing to keep in mind when comparing Hockey East vs ECAC, and I make that comparison because they are all eastern schools, is that Hockey East's profile has been elevated, while the overall strength of the league has been diluted, by the ascension of BC to elite status. BC is the most consistently dominant team in the East, and, arguably, the country. They have separated their program from all of the other programs in HE (BU,UNH, Maine) that were on that top tier with BC. The result is that HE is BC and a bunch of pretenders to the throne, whereas the ECAC has rotated teams (Cornell, Clarkson, Princeton, Yale, Union) at the top of the league over the last 5 years. Cornell is certainly the most consistently good team in the ECAC over the past ten or so years, but has never achieved dominance in the ECAC the way BC has in HE. BC's consistent excellence has given HE greater cachet than the performance of the entire league warrants.

Obtuse reasoning, to say the least...

BC is pretty-much unarguably the best program in the nation of late, and any conference would be improved as a whole by their addition. Furthermore, three other HEA teams made the NCAAs, despite playing mighty BC 3-4 times apiece. (Do you think Union would have garnered a #1 seed, or that Cornell would even have made the field, under identical conditions?)

The gap between the ECAC and HE has narrowed a bit recently, but it's still quite the gulf. The empirical evidence is very clear on that one.

Having said that, GO DUTCHMEN! I'd love to see Union (or Ferris) take home the hardware this year.

Osorojo
03-27-2012, 09:05 AM
The continued growth of TV coverage and the revenue such coverage can generate will make gate receipts a less critical priority for college hockey programs. It was T.V. coverage which greatly popularized college football and which actually promoted ticket sales. It's entirely possible that increased T.V. coverage will increase gate receipts for college hockey programs.
No matter how electronic media influence college hockey, the fans will still watch games to see which team rather than which conference wins.

jerphisch
03-27-2012, 10:31 AM
... but how does Clarkson get a CC or a DU to come to its building?

Perhaps you should ask the people at Clarkson, they seem to have figured out how to get CC to go there about once every 5 years (in 03-04 and again in 08-09).

Priceless
03-27-2012, 02:36 PM
Since the leagues separated in 1984:

Hockey East: Non-Conference 1150-644-130 (.632), 88 NCAA appearances, 37 trips to the Frozen Four, 7 national titles and 112 tournament wins. Four teams have 17 or more NCAA appearances and four or more trips to the Frozen Four (BC and Maine are in double digits).

ECAC: Non-Conference 1833-1861-273 (.496), 62 NCAA appearances, 11 trips to the Frozen Four, 2 national titles and 41 tournament wins. Three teams have 12, 11 and 11 NCAA appearances. Only Harvard has been to the Frozen Four more than once.

In the NCAA tournament, HEA has a .541 winning percentage vs the ECAC's .376 winning percentage.

If we break down the numbers for the last 20 seasons it's even more stark. 29 FF for HEA vs 5 for the ECAC. 7 national titles and 11 runners-up (twice to other HEA teams) to 0 championship game appearances for the ECAC.

It's great that Union has won a couple games and are in the Frozen Four, but let's not pretend that the wide gulf between Hockey East and the ECAC has narrowed one iota. Let's also not pretend that Hockey East's depth is anywhere near the equivalent of the ECAC.

css228
03-27-2012, 03:47 PM
Perhaps you should ask the people at Clarkson, they seem to have figured out how to get CC to go there about once every 5 years (in 03-04 and again in 08-09). But that's not enough. They need teams like CC to come in more like every other year. The three most successful programs over the past three years have been Union, Cornell, and Yale right? So they get great out of conference games almost every year now. But this years home slate for Clarkson read like a who's who of teams that weren't going to make the tournament. Some of the ivy's use their games on the Ivy shootout because thats how they make money. I mean you'd scream bloody murder if your team agreed to play a weekend series at Brown, wouldn't you? I know part of it is because some of these teams haven't been good, but they have to take the AHA games (especially the non-ivies) because the conference schedule is so much shorter than other leagues, and because I can't remember the last time a program like Michigan was willing to play at a small program's barn. I'm not saying its wrong, because when was the last time Cornell volunteered to go play at an AHA school, or any ECAC squad went down to Huntsville, but the point is that they're not just scheduling cup cakes to inflate their record.

GoldenBear
03-27-2012, 07:45 PM
Since the leagues separated in 1984:

Hockey East: Non-Conference 1150-644-130 (.632), 88 NCAA appearances, 37 trips to the Frozen Four, 7 national titles and 112 tournament wins. Four teams have 17 or more NCAA appearances and four or more trips to the Frozen Four (BC and Maine are in double digits).

ECAC: Non-Conference 1833-1861-273 (.496), 62 NCAA appearances, 11 trips to the Frozen Four, 2 national titles and 41 tournament wins. Three teams have 12, 11 and 11 NCAA appearances. Only Harvard has been to the Frozen Four more than once.

In the NCAA tournament, HEA has a .541 winning percentage vs the ECAC's .376 winning percentage.

If we break down the numbers for the last 20 seasons it's even more stark. 29 FF for HEA vs 5 for the ECAC. 7 national titles and 11 runners-up (twice to other HEA teams) to 0 championship game appearances for the ECAC.

It's great that Union has won a couple games and are in the Frozen Four, but let's not pretend that the wide gulf between Hockey East and the ECAC has narrowed one iota. Let's also not pretend that Hockey East's depth is anywhere near the equivalent of the ECAC.

Wrong, SLU went to the Frozen Four in 1988 and 2000.

Priceless
03-27-2012, 07:55 PM
Wrong, SLU went to the Frozen Four in 1988 and 2000.
I see they did. Well, that certainly changes things.

joecct
03-27-2012, 08:09 PM
Perhaps you should ask the people at Clarkson, they seem to have figured out how to get CC to go there about once every 5 years (in 03-04 and again in 08-09).Quid pro quo's. You come to my barn, I come to yours. Travel costs are the responsibility of the ?????.

As to Clarkson's 11-12 schedule. Let's just say it was not high calibre. But who wants to schedule the last place ECAC team for an out of conference game? Nobody's going to come and if, by some odd fluke you lose, your RPI is going to take one whale of a hit.

Fishman'81
03-28-2012, 01:53 AM
The continued growth of TV coverage and the revenue such coverage can generate will make gate receipts a less critical priority for college hockey programs. It was T.V. coverage which greatly popularized college football and which actually promoted ticket sales. It's entirely possible that increased T.V. coverage will increase gate receipts for college hockey programs.
No matter how electronic media influence college hockey, the fans will still watch games to see which team rather than which conference wins.

You hit the nail directly on its head, IMO.

I doubt that the NCAA cares much about attendance, considering that ESPN has rendered the Regional weekend a wall-to-wall orgy of college hockey on national TV... And that's at the crux: TV.

To further support your argument, anyone who watched the sacred hoops tournament will notice that the arenas are often nearly empty... Yet March madness is the biggest deal in college sports, in terms of revenue. Pretty easy to connect the dots.

I love having all the games on HD right in my home. (It does make me less likely to bend over and let TicketBastard assign me a nosebleed seat for $80 in a half-filled arena, yes, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.) ESPN is actually the only entity that's "growing the sport".

Example: I run a little FF pool at work. I look for volume, so I charge a measly $2.00 entry fee. Even at that, I sold as few as 7 brackets several years ago... But in the past few seasons, I've had as many as 40 entrants. Why? Because now, everyone can all see the games if they care to, and many actually do watch a sport that they didn't realize existed as recently as 5-6 years ago. ESPNU has actually created a few college hockey fans out of thin air around here.

To paraphrase Lombardi: TV isn't everything; it's the only thing.

Priceless
03-28-2012, 11:08 AM
You hit the nail directly on its head, IMO.

I doubt that the NCAA cares much about attendance, considering that ESPN has rendered the Regional weekend a wall-to-wall orgy of college hockey on national TV... And that's at the crux: TV.

To further support your argument, anyone who watched the sacred hoops tournament will notice that the arenas are often nearly empty... Yet March madness is the biggest deal in college sports, in terms of revenue. Pretty easy to connect the dots.

I love having all the games on HD right in my home. (It does make me less likely to bend over and let TicketBastard assign me a nosebleed seat for $80 in a half-filled arena, yes, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.) ESPN is actually the only entity that's "growing the sport".

Example: I run a little FF pool at work. I look for volume, so I charge a measly $2.00 entry fee. Even at that, I sold as few as 7 brackets several years ago... But in the past few seasons, I've had as many as 40 entrants. Why? Because now, everyone can all see the games if they care to, and many actually do watch a sport that they didn't realize existed as recently as 5-6 years ago. ESPNU has actually created a few college hockey fans out of thin air around here.

To paraphrase Lombardi: TV isn't everything; it's the only thing.
I'm turning you in to the IRS! :p

FredDavenport
03-28-2012, 07:17 PM
Have nothing to say, but Good Luck Union and the ECAC. This is HUGE for both! Can't wait to tune in.

Fishman'81
03-28-2012, 11:54 PM
I'm turning you in to the IRS! :p

Feel free; my administrative fees are already safely deposited off-shore. ;)