The Team They Love To Hate

[USCHO Newsbot]

BOSTON — A recent poll question asked "Which college hockey program do you love to hate?" The winners, or maybe losers, of the poll were the Minnesota Golden Gophers. Why do fans love to hate them? Scott Weighart examines why.

Read more at uscho.com ...

[MisterB]

Growing up in Boston a long time ago, and palying a little bit at one of the other 3 (at that time) Division One schools we hated BC for many of the same reasons talked about in this story. I especially remember the feeling of getting bullied, not so much by the team, but by the Boston media, where it was always expected by the press that BC would dominate the rest of us. As Minnessota for years got the local kids, BC back then never had any Canadians and got more than their fair share of the best Boston area players. BU got the majority of the rest. The perception was if you were smart as well as a good hockey player you went to Harvard. And Northeastern... Oh well they got the players like me! The point is that all of this is meaningless and fans of one team will always look to the negative of their rivals and overlook all the shortcomings of their own team and be jeaolous of others successes.

I couldn't agree more with Coach Lucia's "plea" for less vulgarity directed to visiting teams. Now that I'm a DU fan (living in Colorado Springs) I have always felt huge animosity coming from the CC crowd towards us DU people. I've never understood that because I've never seen reciprocating hostility by the DU fans at Magness. That last statement to be sure will be discredited by CC fans and probably rightfully so. Again, it all depends on your bias. But something has to be done, sport wide, to limit the obscenity without destoying the spirit. Personally I think it is a no brainer to accomplish.

[vant0037]

While I certainly know there is animosity walking into Mariucci arena, I have no pity for a Badger/Sioux/Wolverine/"fill in D-1 program fan here" who cries foul about the fans of the Minnesota Golden Gophers. Give me a break. Ever been to Camp Randall? Ever been Englestad? For every fan that thinks Gopher fans are the worst, trust me, Gopher fans are saying THE EXACT SAME THING ABOUT YOU.

It is the nature of college athletics--mix some semblance of success + beer + youthful pageantry and you will get trash-talking, arrogance and misinformation from all sides. Remember when the Badgers stunk in football in the early 90s, and then Alvarez took over? All of the sudden, their program has been turned around but you'd swear the Badgers had always been dominant, at least according to every Badger fan I've ever talked to. Its the simple fact that, as was pointed out in the article, most of the fans who do the ignorant trash-talking and give Wisconsin or UND or Gopher fans things to gripe about are fans suddenly during their 4 year stay at said college (any wonder?), and really don't understand the broader legacy that is college sports and college sports rivalries.

Badger fans might be arrogant about football, forgetting that in the long run, the University of Minnesota has 6 NCAA titles compared to Wisconsin's 0, and historically, a top-tier football program in the nation. Gopher hockey fans can be quite ignorant to the fact that the Gophs have only 5 NCAA titles compared to the Badgers 6 and the Sioux's 7 (?). UND fans are quite ignorant to the fact that, well, they live and play in -gulp- Grand Forks, North Dakota (just kidding...kind of).

The point is: its college sports. There are some fans who trash-talk because they're arse-holes and some who trash-talk because they're ignorant. But as a Gopher fan, do I for one second feel bad for UW fans, UND fans, UM fans etc etc etc who cry foul because they hate/envy or whatever it is they feel for the University of Minnesota Golden Gophers hockey program? Ab-so-lute-ly NOT. Because the fact of the matter is, when the roles are reversed and I'm wearing a Gopher hockey hoody in Madison or Grand Forks, I will feel the same tinge of animosity that the sensitive characters quoted in the article claim to feel walking into Mariucci. In college sports and especially in college hockey, what goes around WILL come around and that's a fact of life.

Badger fans, Sioux fans, Gopher fans, whoever it is...deal with it. Its college sports for crying out loud...if you don't feel like an outsider at your rival's home ice/field/court, you better check your ticket and make sure you're at the right game.

[Goon]

Originally Posted by vant0037

Badger fans might be arrogant about football, forgetting that in the long run, the University of Minnesota has 6 NCAA titles compared to Wisconsin's 0, and historically, a top-tier football program in the nation. Gopher hockey fans can be quite ignorant to the fact that the Gophs have only 5 NCAA titles compared to the Badgers 6 and the Sioux's 7 (?). UND fans are quite ignorant to the fact that, well, they live and play in -gulp- Grand Forks, North Dakota (just kidding...kind of).

That post is a perfect example of why Goofer fans get a bad name. First off your football team hasn't won a NCAA title since what? If am not mistken the 1960's.

[vant0037]

Goon,

When teams stop counting pre-1960 championships, let me know.

Did you even read my post? Was I trying to talk trash with that stat? Or did I qualify it by saying that oh yeah, Gopher hockey fans often forget that they have LESS TITLES than both UW and UND. The point I was trying to make was that when fans talk trash or generally make up the tough atmosphere at home ice, it often has nothing to do with the broader picture of things. In reality, people do that because its simply college sports, college rivalries and youthful arrogance/team spirit etc etc etc. The point was: deal with it. It goes with the sport, it goes with the age, it goes with rivalries. People label the Gophers and their fans as if its different everywhere else. You know that's not true. If you can't take it, then take up golf? I don't know...there's not many spectator sports where talking trash, mouthing off, abusing the away goalie, chanting, shouting, drinking, and generally being a rowdy arsehole DOESN'T happen at a team's home ice/field.

Wow dude...read first, then respond.

[Goon]

Originally Posted by vant0037

Goon,

When teams stop counting pre-1960 championships, let me know.

Did you even read my post? Was I trying to talk trash with that stat? Or did I qualify it by saying that oh yeah, Gopher hockey fans often forget that they have LESS TITLES than both UW and UND. The point I was trying to make was that when fans talk trash or generally make up the tough atmosphere at home ice, it often has nothing to do with the broader picture of things. In reality, people do that because its simply college sports, college rivalries and youthful arrogance/team spirit etc etc etc. If you can't take it, then take up golf? I don't know...there's not many spectator sports where talking trash, mouthing off, abusing the away goalie, chanting, shouting, drinking, and generally being a rowdy arsehole DOESN'T happen at a team's home ice/field.

Wow dude...read first, then respond.

Dude I was just having some fun, I ACTUALLY LIKE THE GOPHER football team although they sucked this season and I didn't think Mason was that bad of a coach. However, that being said, I think this point pretty much explains why people hate the Gopher fans. LOL, I golf but I suck at it.

Perhaps those who have it toughest are non-Gopher fans who live in the heart of Minnesota hockey country. Minnesota resident Kent Bergene, a North Dakota native, offered this perspective. “I’ve lived in the Twin Cities for 26 years now (graduated from UND in 1981), and I would characterize most locals are ‘blithely’ ignorant, about the game of college hockey,” Bergene said.

“Minnesotans are supremely smug about how their team is the best, yet totally unaware of the facts and the reality. This is all walks and all ages, with the sole exception of posters on this board, who are generally as smug, yet smarter.”

That said, Bergene has found a way of warding off Gophermania in the office. “Yes, I have a NCAA Ice Hockey fact book at my office (because I got tired of arguing with these know-nothings). Yes, my daughters (UND fans to the core) trade trash talk with their little friends, who must have been born smug and ignorant.

[vant0037]

Well, if I took my points and lessons about college hockey and the truth thereof from one randomly (presumably?) selected interviewee in a USCHO.com article--which I don't, then I'd say that yes I agree with Mr. Bergene that most FANS, Gopher or not, in general are yes, "blithely ignorant" about the game of college hockey.

Again...this really doesn't rebuff my point that zealous and even mindless support for your team is what makes college sports, well, college sports. While Mr. Bergene claims there is ignorance among the locals (based on what...personal experiences?) and that he keeps a fact-book nearby to refute these idiots, my point still stands that the Gopher idiocy or whatever you want to call it happens on every campus, in every area where there is a major college sports team (or pro, HS, junior etc team for that matter).

On top of that, Mr. Bergene is living in the Twin Cities...why is he so surprised that he faces (1) a multitude of Gopher fans (thereby increasing the likelihood that he'll encounter the "blithely ignorant") and (2) that they are so ardent in their support of the Gophers? Does he really expect that when he quotes an NCAA fact book, that it will settle the score? He shouldn't! That's what cheering for your team is all about. I don't reorder my Twins season tickets based on whether Nick Punto is handed a starting job at 2nd base or not or whether Eddie Guardado is continually handed the ball in the 9th. That's not why fans are fans.

SO...

To sum it all up...people can hate whatever team they want. I understand and welcome that. Its the nature of college sports and their inherent rivalries (like I've said all along). But I'm not going to acknowledge for a second the claim that anything that's said about the Gophers fans (and the reasons for hating the U of M) isn't completely true about other teams and fans once the roles are reversed. Especially when the entire crux of that claim is based on 1 or 2 opinions, one from a guy living in the heart of the Gopher fan base, who he bases his generalizations on people we know nothing about (come on, he could be quoting the most misinformed fan out there, and then concluding that person's view as representative of Gopher fans--Bergene's personal experiences shouldn't = gospel regarding Gopher fans). Its really not fair to conclude that one guy's personal experiences with probably a few Gopher-fan-co-workers is grounds to conclude that the Twin Cities and the Gopher fans there amount to a bastion of hockey ignorance. Actually, what it amounts to is a bastion of hometown favoritism. But is that really to be unexpected? Unfamiliar? Not consistent with every college campus? (you know the answer to this one).

Just as a reference point...I'm real interested in this conversation because I've got 12 hours til my last final for the semester and I'm really hitting a wall with the material. Hockey talk is a welcome distraction.

Alright...no more! I need to study!

[ganderson9754]

I come at this from a different perspective- I'm a U of M alum and Gopher fan who has been living in Amherst, MA for almost 20 years. I have been a season ticket holder for the Minutemen since they became a D-I program. In the early days my dual loyalties presented no problems- the Gophers were good, UMASS not so much. These days, however...

I have noticed that there is an arrogance about many Gopher fans that I find irritating- it reminds me a lot of the way Red Sox and Yankee fans behave. And, as has been stated above, the most annoying fans often seem to be the ones that, to put it bluntly are less knowledgeable about the game. As for rooting against anyone- I'm a fan of the game- nothing like a cold night in Amherst or Boston or Minneapolis (or even -gasp- Madison) and being able to see a well-played college game.
And I do think that much of the joy expressed at the Gophers' recent struggles have to do with the Gophers' general run of excellence- UMASS hasn't been good enough long enough to evoke that kind of hatred- I think there's a chance that they will very soon....

As for the obscene chants- I'd love to see them go away- be clever- showing up at Gopher games in Crusader sweaters is funny- "See ya @#$% is not.

[Go4PuckFan]

Originally Posted by vant0037

Goon,

When teams stop counting pre-1960 championships, let me know.

Did you even read my post? Was I trying to talk trash with that stat? Or did I qualify it by saying that oh yeah, Gopher hockey fans often forget that they have LESS TITLES than both UW and UND. The point I was trying to make was that when fans talk trash or generally make up the tough atmosphere at home ice, it often has nothing to do with the broader picture of things. In reality, people do that because its simply college sports, college rivalries and youthful arrogance/team spirit etc etc etc. The point was: deal with it. It goes with the sport, it goes with the age, it goes with rivalries. People label the Gophers and their fans as if its different everywhere else. You know that's not true. If you can't take it, then take up golf? I don't know...there's not many spectator sports where talking trash, mouthing off, abusing the away goalie, chanting, shouting, drinking, and generally being a rowdy arsehole DOESN'T happen at a team's home ice/field.

Wow dude...read first, then respond.

Reading comprehension is not a strong suit of Goons.

Just ask the UND fans.

[Koho]

I have a couple points to make to counter/explain a couple claims about Gopher hockey fans;

First, a poster above compares Gopher arrogance to that of Yankee fans. I think this brings up a chicken vs. egg controversy. Other fans hate the Gophers (I will argue because of jealousy over their success), and then bring up the fan arrogance justification. Imagine if you can, what it is like to cheer for a team that the majority of the other fans hate more than all others. I think a human response is to take more pride in your team and push back. Not that I am trying to justify the behavior of all Gopher fans, just trying offer at least a partial explanation. (Of course, it may be that the chicken and egg grew off each other in this case.)

Secondly, I think the claim that Gopher fans typically know less than other fans is a little biased. Sure, because Gopher games are more of a social event/more prestigious than a college hockey game may be in many other parts of the country and therefore will attract a certain percentage of casual fans, I think every arena will have some of those fans. However, I would put the average Minnesotan's knowledge of hockey against any other state's. Pro players and coaches have often commented on how the crowds here understand the game, much like Canadian venues. And I don't know how you would argue they wouldn't. I bet a higher percentage of them either played hockey at one time or at least have been watching friends or kids play for years than fans in any other state.

As for a more extensive explanation on my theories of hatred of MN, I already wasted a night writing my fan autobiography on the original thread...

[pgb-ohio]

Originally Posted by ganderson9754

I come at this from a different perspective- I'm a U of M alum and Gopher fan who has been living in Amherst, MA for almost 20 years. I have been a season ticket holder for the Minutemen since they became a D-I program. In the early days my dual loyalties presented no problems- the Gophers were good, UMASS not so much. These days, however...

I have noticed that there is an arrogance about many Gopher fans that I find irritating- it reminds me a lot of the way Red Sox and Yankee fans behave. And, as has been stated above, the most annoying fans often seem to be the ones that, to put it bluntly are less knowledgeable about the game. As for rooting against anyone- I'm a fan of the game- nothing like a cold night in Amherst or Boston or Minneapolis (or even -gasp- Madison) and being able to see a well-played college game.
And I do think that much of the joy expressed at the Gophers' recent struggles have to do with the Gophers' general run of excellence- UMASS hasn't been good enough long enough to evoke that kind of hatred- I think there's a chance that they will very soon....

As for the obscene chants- I'd love to see them go away- be clever- showing up at Gopher games in Crusader sweaters is funny- "See ya @#$% is not.

Solid first post. Welcome to the board.

Fans that have lived a few different places, or at least have traveled some, tend to have a healthier perspective on this issue. Your post illustrates that.

To build on your comment just a bit: No true fan wants to be judged by the bandwagon jumpers in their fanbase. Pretty much by definition, the greater the success, the greater the number of bandwagoners. So this can be a real issue for successful programs. It's the bandwagon people that tend to be both loud and ignorant. You know the type. Go to a game with them you wind up saying things like "I have to apologize for Biff. He doesn't get out much..."

At the end of the day, it's brutally unfair to lump the longtime ticket buyers in with the bandwagon jumpers. Yeah, they're rooting for the same team. Beyond that, they couldn't be more different.

The longtime fan has every right to be proud of his team's success. Apologize for the boorish members of the fanbase? Sure. Apologize for winning too much? No way. Not the fans who have been with the team through thick and thin -- be it Gopher Hockey, Red Sox Baseball or whatever.

[Goon]

Originally Posted by Koho

Imagine if you can, what it is like to cheer for a team that the majority of the other fans hate more than all others.

I can the Sioux were ranked number two most hated.

[Bakunin]

Originally Posted by Goon

I can the Sioux were ranked number two most hated.

It was a distant second.

[Brenthoven]

Originally Posted by Bakunin

It was a distant second.

Even when the Gophers "lose," they win!

[Goon]

Originally Posted by Bakunin

It was a distant second.

Any clue who the distant three was?

[Bakunin]

Originally Posted by Goon

Any clue who the distant three was?

My guess would be BC, but I honestly don't remember.

[wasmania]

Originally Posted by Bakunin

It was a distant second.

I bet if you look who voted, you would see a bunch of crying beckies voted that they hated those mean Sioux. If it wasn't for Joe Finley (and maybe Kaip) the Sioux wouldnt even rank.

[Brenthoven]

Originally Posted by wasmania

I bet if you look who voted, you would see a bunch of crying beckies voted that they hated those mean Sioux. If it wasn't for Joe Finley (and maybe Kaip) the Sioux wouldnt even rank.

If one didn't use common sense, one woulda voted for the Sioux. They're hostile and abusive.

[Goon]

Originally Posted by Bakunin

My guess would be BC, but I honestly don't remember.

That would be a good choice.

[wasmania]

Originally Posted by Brenthoven

Even when the Gophers "lose," they win!

You know these guys stuffed the ballot box. They'll do anything to be winners. Even lose!!!!