AIC? Does anyone care?

[Zudnic]

Originally Posted by s8rix

i just read the end of my post and it confused the hell out of me. I guess my question is why would anyone want to watch a DI hockey game at an MDC rink? More importantly, why would anyone capable of playing DI hockey want to play every day at an MDC rink?

If I were a Bentley player, I'd be upset that the logo at center ice for my home arena is a giant W - for Watertown High School.

[winger]

Well you maybe right on what level they played at, i just pulled that info from the USCHO site.

As for springfield college, I wouldnt be surprised if they played at the smead, since its right down the street from the college.
And that is an MDC rink (well now and MDC rink run by FMC)

I think with Bently one of the big selling points of the school is the business program. So maybe that why some of those guys choose to go there. I dont know if AIC has any big selling points academically. And if you wanted to do anything in a sports related field, springfield college might be a better choice.

Some MDC rinks have those big heaters . Then again AIC the olympia wasnt much warmer than Walter Brown Arena. Then again at WBA I usually stand on the level near the press box and they keep opening that door for the zamboni so we dont DIE from fumes. The nerve.

[s8rix]

how could coach soderquist tell that to a recruit? i wonder if they even take recruits to the rink? (like an old UConn stunt with the outdoor rink)

[winger]

Originally Posted by s8rix

how could coach soderquist tell that to a recruit? i wonder if they even take recruits to the rink? (like an old UConn stunt with the outdoor rink)

Well you kind of think about who you are recruiting here. These teams are obvioulsy not going to be recruiting the same kids as Maine and BC. And the other thing I would image is that for alot of these players its either play for AIC or Bently or play D-III.

[Ralph Baer]

What is an MDC rink? (1600 in roman numerals?)

[Zudnic]

Originally Posted by Ralph Baer

What is an MDC rink? (1600 in roman numerals?)

MDC stands for Metropolitan District Commission, a really fancy name for the State of Mass. parks service.

[winger]

Originally Posted by Ralph Baer

What is an MDC rink? (1600 in roman numerals?)

MDC used to stand for Massachusetts Department of Conservation; it’s now the Department of Conservation and Recreation.

MDC or DCR used to run lots of things. They re the ones that maintain the Boston Commons and Public gardens, the run the swan boats in the summer and the public skating rink in the common in the winter. They maintain lots of public parks in Massachusetts (mostly on the eastern part of the state), the public pools and that sort of stuff.

MDC rinks, have a certain, well look and style to them, basically they are all the same (if you don’t count Brockton, Worchester and Springfield. They are different than all the others but used the same plan amongst the 3. And some of those open rinks are MDC and were either closed in or some are still with an open (like the Watertown one))

But a couple of years ago, MDC realized they really didn’t know how to run ice rinks. So now what they have done is leased all the buildings out. FMC runs most of them; they have some nice 25 year leases and are also responsible for all capital improvements.

Basically you have been to one MDC rink; it’s like visiting them all.

[RSTuthill]

MDC == Metropolitan District Commission. In other words, parks and certain utilities and facilities.

AIC used to play in Smead, also known as Blunt Park. North Springfield.

[Ralph Baer]

Thanks everyone. So, it's like the M-NCPPC (Maryland-National Capital Park and Planning Commission http://www.mncppc.org/ )

[ADK11]

Winger - That photo post is just a "WOW". Reminds everyone that the players and coaches are what make the game of hockey so great. Outstanding photos too - you have a really good eye.

As it turns out, I grew up in the same hometown in Vermont as Gary Wright and can certainly attest that he and his family are outstanding people. Gary was a walk-on hockey player at UVM in the 70's when Vermont was a D-II power and then an excellent D-I team (they actually made the ECAC D-1 final 4 in '75 when that was a huge accomplishment). Gary played JV for 3 years, but persevered and was a 4th liner on the varsity as a senior. He was not the most talented player, but he was the epitome of hard work, tenaciousness, and selflessness and was a significant contributor on a very good team. He then coached high school hockey in Vermont and I played against a couple of his teams. They always played good clean hockey that emphasized speed and puck movement over the clutch & grab, dump it in style that was prevalent at the time. I'd sort of lost touch with where he went after that, but I'm not surprised to see that he found a home at AIC and has stayed there a long time. He is certainly a credit to the game of hockey and the coaching profession as a whole, and AIC is fortunate to have him.

As to AIC's current plight, the problem is simply that there is no remotely viable D-II in college hockey anymore. Most of the AHA schools and several of the CHA schools are in this boat - they are D-II or D-I in all their other sports, so they can't play D-III (the Middleburys of the world wouldn't want to soil their oxfords playing against a school that can give scholarships in other sports!! Egaads!!). D-II is a joke, so these schools either go D-1 for the exposure or drop their programs. Unfortunately, more of these schools will probably drop their programs, which in the long run is a loss for the hockey community.

[Hux]

Originally Posted by winger

MDC used to stand for Massachusetts Department of Conservation; it’s now the Department of Conservation and Recreation.

MDC or DCR used to run lots of things. They re the ones that maintain the Boston Commons and Public gardens, the run the swan boats in the summer and the public skating rink in the common in the winter. They maintain lots of public parks in Massachusetts (mostly on the eastern part of the state), the public pools and that sort of stuff.

MDC rinks, have a certain, well look and style to them, basically they are all the same (if you don’t count Brockton, Worchester and Springfield. They are different than all the others but used the same plan amongst the 3. And some of those open rinks are MDC and were either closed in or some are still with an open (like the Watertown one))

But a couple of years ago, MDC realized they really didn’t know how to run ice rinks. So now what they have done is leased all the buildings out. FMC runs most of them; they have some nice 25 year leases and are also responsible for all capital improvements.

Basically you have been to one MDC rink; it’s like visiting them all.

The MDC rinks that were built in the '60s, along with the resurgence of the Bruins with Orr and company is what lead to the hockey boom in this area. Prior to that time enclosed rinks were few and far betwee.

Most MDC rinks are pretty cool places, with decent ice and facilities. The
Janus rink in Lowell, for example, has a great heated lace up area, heated locker rooms and clean showers.

The state via the former body known as MDC still operates a pretty good number of facilities. And I think that former Bruin Gary Doak is in charge of the program as well.

The rink in Watertown where Bentley plays is not an MDC rink. It may have been at one point, but it is not at this time.

FMC "runs" the rink here in Burlington (non MDC) and are bailing on their contract to concentrate on landing the MDC account. We will be glad to see them go. They refuse to put any money into things like long term Zamboni repair, or keeping the toilets running. Since everything is run by computer from Rockland, the ice is often softer than it should be (about 23 degrees) which means water ponds a lot. The ice was, until Sunday, about 6 inches thick so that you couldn't see the lines through the ice. The stands are cold, because the computer controlled heating system is set for 26 degrees.

We are lucky that we now have a new manager that is on the ball, but he is fighting an uphill battle against FMC management. I hope that FMC doesn't get the MDC contract, because I doubt that it will be for the betterment of hockey and skating in the state.

[Hux]

Originally Posted by ADK11

As to AIC's current plight, the problem is simply that there is no remotely viable D-II in college hockey anymore. Most of the AHA schools and several of the CHA schools are in this boat - they are D-II or D-I in all their other sports, so they can't play D-III (the Middleburys of the world wouldn't want to soil their oxfords playing against a school that can give scholarships in other sports!! Egaads!!). D-II is a joke, so these schools either go D-1 for the exposure or drop their programs. Unfortunately, more of these schools will probably drop their programs, which in the long run is a loss for the hockey community.

I think the unfortunate thing is that these schools happen to be located in an area that is overrun with hockey. If you put AIC, Bentley etc. in some place that has no AHL hockey, or other major college hockey within an hour's drive, they would be pretty well attended by students and the locals.

Imagine AIC is in Pittsfield. The students would be more likely to attend a game, as there would be little else to do in the area (aside from skiing or boarding) while the locals would be more inclined to take in a game rather than have to drive to Springfield or Albany to see an AHL game. (you could also build a good rivalry with Union and RPI over the hill )

I think that Holy Cross will see a good bump in attendance next year when the Ice Cats move, and the Lock Monsters are one of the reasons that Lowell games aren't as well attended by families as they used to be.

That missing gate revenue can make all the difference to schools like AIC and Bentley, and is what ultimately will keep them where they are.

The unfortunate thing would be to lose these schools from the Division 1 scene. What would be great is if the DII schools and the big fish DIII
schools could jump to D1 and play without it becoming this huge financial drain on the schools. There are 300 something D1 hoop programs because all you need is a gym and 11 warm bodies in shorts to field a team.

But who says you need to have a 6,000 seat barn to be D1? Maybe we have gotten too hung up on D1 being BC, UND & Minny. Why not have the major conferences and some minor ones as well.

Once in a blue moon some 16 seed knocks off a number one in the hoop tourney, but most of the time they get blown out. They are happy to have made the dance. And nobody worries about the dozens of other lower seeds who are fodder for the top teams every year. The same should hold true in hockey. The more the merrier, who cares about the "quality" in terms of there being some semblance of parity. They sure don't worry about it with hoop. So why should we?

You could probably add two more six team conferences right off the bat. And who knows with that type of arrangement you might see some ACHA teams move over to NCAA as well.

Just a zany thought. Anyone agree?

[Puck Swami]

Originally Posted by Hux

But who says you need to have a 6,000 seat barn to be D1? Maybe we have gotten too hung up on D1 being BC, UND & Minny. Why not have the major conferences and some minor ones as well.

Once in a blue moon some 16 seed knocks off a number one in the hoop tourney, but most of the time they get blown out. They are happy to have made the dance. And nobody worries about the dozens of other lower seeds who are fodder for the top teams every year. The same should hold true in hockey. The more the merrier, who cares about the "quality" in terms of there being some semblance of parity. They sure don't worry about it with hoop. So why should we?

You could probably add two more six team conferences right off the bat. And who knows with that type of arrangement you might see some ACHA teams move over to NCAA as well.

Just a zany thought. Anyone agree?

Of course, mid-majors are good for college hockey too. But I would like to see the D-I status mean something more than friends and family coming to watch in a rented rink. I'd like to see campus rinks or crowds of at least 2,000 people (that's a high school basketball sized-crowd in many places) for D-1 hockey teams as a minimum. Leave the friends-and-family approach for d-III.

[Hux]

Originally Posted by Puck Swami

Of course, mid-majors are good for college hockey too. But I would like to see the D-I status mean something more than friends and family coming to watch in a rented rink. I'd like to see campus rinks or crowds of at least 2,000 people (that's a high school basketball sized-crowd in many places) for D-1 hockey teams as a minimum. Leave the friends-and-family approach for d-III.

I agree. Lowell used to get 1500 to 2000 in Tully and it was packed, loud, and fun. The crowds were students, locals, and lots of youth hockey players and family. They were great crowds that spent a lot of coin on eats and merchandise too. Not out of the realm for schools like Bentley and AIC. And it obviously works for Middlebury and even St. Ans I hear.

[Rhett]

Originally Posted by ADK11

As to AIC's current plight, the problem is simply that there is no remotely viable D-II in college hockey anymore. Most of the AHA schools and several of the CHA schools are in this boat - they are D-II or D-I in all their other sports, so they can't play D-III (the Middleburys of the world wouldn't want to soil their oxfords playing against a school that can give scholarships in other sports!! Egaads!!). D-II is a joke, so these schools either go D-1 for the exposure or drop their programs. Unfortunately, more of these schools will probably drop their programs, which in the long run is a loss for the hockey community.

Only 3 in each conference are really in this boat , as D-II schools playing up (which is a lower number than you imply), and only 2 of them are widely termed to be 'unsuccessful' at D-I (Bentley and AIC). Of the other 4, 2 were in the NCAA's 2 years ago and the other two have new buildings in the pipeline... doesn't sound like these are programs which are D-I, just because. Also, the fact that there is no championship in the division is a very small motivation for (most) athletic departments to elevate a program, since nearly every university has at least one program for which no NCAA title is sposored. It is a small issue when you sposor 10, 12, 20 teams, and simply part of life in the NCAA.

As far as D-II's imagined inviability as a reason for these teams moving up, you realize that the reason you percieve D-II as being inviable is BECAUSE these schools moved up, shrinking D-II considerably and the end of their national championship in 1999. You have to realize that if all 6 of these programs moved down tomorrow (hypothetically), then it is likely that D-II would be able resume the 2 team / 2 game division championship. They are only a handful of programs away.

Just to summarize the history of this 'inviable' division since the scuttling of their national championship in 1999, when only 5 programs remained:
- University of Minnesota, Crookston starts a new hockey program (GASP! Why would one ever play D-II hockey! Someone tell them it's simple not viable!)
- Franklin Pierce College starts a new hockey program (ANOTHER ONE! NOOOOOOOO!)
- Northeast-10 Conference announces that it will be the first full Division-II conference to sponsor hockey, complete will full round robin scheduling, a season ending tournament, weekly and season awards, etc., etc. (HOW CAN THEY DO THIS!!!! These schools should be told to stop playing because there is nothing to play for! How dare you give them... something to play for!)
- Saint Anselm College opens a multi-million dollar arena on campus (WHO WOULD ALLOW THIS!!!! This division isn't capable of supporting a team with a shiny new arena! Is no one listening!!!!!)

Sure there are only a few programs now, but they're heading in a very positive direction. I sincerely doubt that a D-II AD would immediately dismiss the possibility of playing hockey on this level because of the lack of an NC. If anything, this should be looked upon as an area where there is considerable potential and room for growth, perfect for a new program either as a staging point for higher things or as a home for the future for programs with more modest aims.

[Hux]

Originally Posted by Rhett

Sure there are only a few programs now, but they're heading in a very positive direction. I sincerely doubt that a D-II AD would immediately dismiss the possibility of playing hockey on this level because of the lack of an NC. If anything, this should be looked upon as an area where there is considerable potential and room for growth, perfect for a new program either as a staging point for higher things or as a home for the future for programs with more modest aims.

That is a very good point, and hopefully DII will continue to grow. But what if these programs were to move up to D1, in a mid-major sort of conference set-up where they could compete against teams that aren't on the big budget plan. Things wouldn't really change (for those that move up), unless a team wanted to take on a Michigan in Ann Arbor for the pay day, and a conference champ could have a shot at the Big Skate come March. (Assuming 12 additional teams, two conferences, each with an eventual auto bid, and two at large slots to make the big four happy.)

The more lower tier teams there are in D1, the less glaring the struggles of programs like Bentley and AIC. And these lower tier teams wouldn't have to have the budgets of the bigger conference teams, and you would be less likely to see the plug pulled as in the case of Findlay, Fairfield and Iona. (It really sucks that we lost three teams in the last two years)

If the various teams could have games against non-conference opponents who are on equal footing, there will be more parity, and ultimately more local and student fan interest.

Just my wee hours musings.

[schiegs]

Originally Posted by Rhett

As far as D-II's imagined inviability as a reason for these teams moving up, you realize that the reason you percieve D-II as being inviable is BECAUSE these schools moved up, shrinking D-II considerably and the end of their national championship in 1999.

Not true. This quote is from an NCAA article published at the time.

While reasons vary, each team contends that the timing was right to take the next step. They also state that reclassification to Division I will provide growth opportunities and greater stability, which is not available at the Division II level because of low sponsorship numbers and the near certainty that the Division II championship will be discontinued.

Since the reinstatement of the Division II championship in 1993, Division II men's ice hockey sponsorship numbers have hovered in the low double digits, well below the NCAA required minimum of 40 sponsoring institutions to retain or establish a championship.

A vote on the future of the championship will occur at the 1999 Convention via Proposal No. 2-21, which would discontinue the championship effective August 1, 1999. (A vote would be necessary because at the 1997 Convention, legislation was approved that no Olympic sport could be discontinued without consent from the membership.)

So, as you can see, the teams that moved were faced with a sinking ship. They could either stay at D-II with little to compete for, or move to D-I, and at least have a dream (albeit a very unlikely one.) Had they all stayed, D-II would still have lost their championship. Combine that with the fact that the window was closing for D-I membership due to changes in the reclassification requirements (Findlay needed a waiver to be the last one in,) and it made the decision elementary. (Those reclassification requirements have since been revised yet again making it feasible for schools to move single sports (ex hoops and football) up to D-I.)

[Gate93]

If I'm AIC, I am holding on for the inevitable shake-out in D-I. We speculate about it all the time on this board and there is no reason to think its idle speculation either. The ECACHL has publicly indicated that it might add another team in the near future, RIT has asked the Atlantic about playing up, and the CHA is on life support all the time. Any sensible re-order would put the AIC's of the world in a minor conference where they would be more competitive.

I agree w/Puck Swami that crowds in the minimum 2k realm are preferable, I also think its reasonable to give some of these new teams time to establish themselves and get new rinks which are conducive to actually getting that many fans. As for DII, I'm not sure I see any growth there at all. I'm only familiar with the NH schools (St.A's, FP & SNHU) but of the three, only St. A's is any good at all because the ability to recruit is too hindered by being unable to play in the playoffs - I am pretty sure you can't give scholarships if you want to play against the DIII guys either. St. A's was okay last year because they have a brand new "multi-million dollar facility" on campus. The building was specifically built to be DI acceptable and is expandable to the mid 2k low 3k range if that proves to be needed. Personally, I think it would be beneficial to the DII schools and college hockey overall to form a D-I conference that is comprised of the AIC/Bentley/St. A's of the world. Sure they'd be just like the 16 seed in B-Ball - no hope of winning in the tournament - but those match-ups are one of the reasons March madness is what it is. I personally wouldn't care at all about College B-Ball if it weren't for the fact that every year, Colgate has an outside chance to play a little David & Goliath on national TV. More schools involved in DI hockey means more students, alums and general citizens who care which is how you grow a sport which will always be a grass-roots/niche product.

[Rhett]

Originally Posted by Gate93

If I'm AIC, I am holding on for the inevitable shake-out in D-I. We speculate about it all the time on this board and there is no reason to think its idle speculation either. The ECACHL has publicly indicated that it might add another team in the near future, RIT has asked the Atlantic about playing up, and the CHA is on life support all the time. Any sensible re-order would put the AIC's of the world in a minor conference where they would be more competitive.

I agree w/Puck Swami that crowds in the minimum 2k realm are preferable, I also think its reasonable to give some of these new teams time to establish themselves and get new rinks which are conducive to actually getting that many fans. As for DII, I'm not sure I see any growth there at all. I'm only familiar with the NH schools (St.A's, FP & SNHU) but of the three, only St. A's is any good at all because the ability to recruit is too hindered by being unable to play in the playoffs - I am pretty sure you can't give scholarships if you want to play against the DIII guys either. St. A's was okay last year because they have a brand new "multi-million dollar facility" on campus. The building was specifically built to be DI acceptable and is expandable to the mid 2k low 3k range if that proves to be needed. Personally, I think it would be beneficial to the DII schools and college hockey overall to form a D-I conference that is comprised of the AIC/Bentley/St. A's of the world. Sure they'd be just like the 16 seed in B-Ball - no hope of winning in the tournament - but those match-ups are one of the reasons March madness is what it is. I personally wouldn't care at all about College B-Ball if it weren't for the fact that every year, Colgate has an outside chance to play a little David & Goliath on national TV. More schools involved in DI hockey means more students, alums and general citizens who care which is how you grow a sport which will always be a grass-roots/niche product.

I agree that a D-I incarnation of the NE-10 (even though the name would likely be different) would be excellent for these schools.

The AHA already caps the scholarships for these schools to be more competitive... do you think there should be a new conference with an even lower cap (I believe AHA's is 11, the NCAA's is 18).

Please remember the value of the small conference auto-bids in March, those of us that understand their purpose usually end up in a thread-war with bandwagon posters from the last couple of Big-4 teams who irrationally whine about their team being more deserving than the auto-bid teams. We could use an extra soldier in the struggle.

[Hux]

Originally Posted by Rhett

I agree that a D-I incarnation of the NE-10 (even though the name would likely be different) would be excellent for these schools.

The AHA already caps the scholarships for these schools to be more competitive... do you think there should be a new conference with an even lower cap (I believe AHA's is 11, the NCAA's is 18).

Please remember the value of the small conference auto-bids in March, those of us that understand their purpose usually end up in a thread-war with bandwagon posters from the last couple of Big-4 teams who irrationally whine about their team being more deserving than the auto-bid teams. We could use an extra soldier in the struggle.

A cap? Yikes, we are starting to sound like the NHL owners!

Seriously though, I think that something like that is needed if the sport is to grow, or at the very least prosper. If there are conferences where teams can be competitive and successful on a capped level of scholarships there is a higher likelihood of the school and alums putting money into the program. A modicum of success (think UMass basketball in the early '90s) creates a ripple effect that starts on campus and spreads outward.

I am sure that if Bentley were to have a few winning seasons a few alums would pony up the cash to get an on campus rink built.

Which brings up another point. The other night Jerry York was talking on the radio about how much he liked playing in the smaller confines of the Bright Center (this was obviously before the game against Harvard) and the old time atmosphere of the place that he thought was missing from the game in the new big buildings, including Conte.

It isn't really neccessary to have everyone playing in big, fancy barns. St. Ans built a nice place, as did Middlebury. But even a less fancy place like Lawler at Merrimack is a 1000 times better than playing off campus in a municipal rink. And obviously a banged out building of 2000 is better than that same 2000 in a place with another 3000 or more empty seats.

So I think it would greatly benefit the sport if the DII and some of the better Threes were to move up and create some new conferences with the caps in place. A little parity could go a long way to growing college hockey.