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  • Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

    Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
    Two things. First, people who are "much better off" in your book are probably paying taxes, or what you and I would certainly consider real money in terms of the amount.

    Second, business owners, wealthy individuals, etc..., are much more likely to actually write a check to pay their taxes. For example, you might have to pay your quarterly estimates in April, June, September and then by January 15 of the following year, as opposed to the withholding that occurs from the vast majority of American's paychecks.

    I've always maintained that if you ever want to see a tax revolt that will put the Boston Tea Party to shame, get rid of mandatory withholding and put everyone on the same system of paying taxes where they have to affirmatively write a large quarterly tax check to the United States Treasury four times per year, and if you estimate wrong, you get hit with penalties and interest. Right now, most people don't really even feel like they pay taxes because they never see the money. All they want to know is "what'll I get back" in the spring, like it's some sort of gift from the government.
    Don't mistake actually paying taxes with a fair and equitable rate.

    I don't doubt that rich people and business owners pay taxes. Not doing so is too risky not to.

    But is their portion fair or not. For that, I suggest everyone go to IRS.GOV and look at the data. You will see that there's a peak of actual tax rate just below $1M earned, and above that, the effective rate goes down (and it's pretty flat from $100k to $1M). So far that the richer you are, you end up paying almost the same as some lower middle class people.

    This is not exactly what the progressive tax rate would suggest. The #1 reason, according to the IRS, is unearned income in the form of long term capitol gains. So if you have the means to NOT WORK, you can pay 15% tax on your long term bet that just sits there and does nothing. Which is also to say- the richer you are, there's more incentive to not work and not contribute to society, (such as being a CEO). As you pay only 15% base rate vs. over 33% base rate on your income.

    This is freaking stupid and needs fixed. But that's never going to happen with a real estate person running the country, since real estate increases count as capitol gains.

    Income is income, should not bias it to one way or another like we do. Fix that, and we end up fixing multiple things at the same time- a huge tax hole for people with means and the rather obvious incentive to not work and really contribute.

    BTW, it's fair to note- money tied up in capitol gains is also money that does not flow through our economy. Which is what is needed for growth.

    Comment


    • Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

      So, Trump is sulking around the White House saying, "I hate everyone." Way to go America. Hire the guy who doesn't want the job and isn't qualified over the qualified person who wanted it.

      We are the moron nation of the World.
      **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

      Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
      Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

      Comment


      • Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

        Originally posted by alfablue View Post
        Don't mistake actually paying taxes with a fair and equitable rate.

        I don't doubt that rich people and business owners pay taxes. Not doing so is too risky not to.

        But is their portion fair or not. For that, I suggest everyone go to IRS.GOV and look at the data. You will see that there's a peak of actual tax rate just below $1M earned, and above that, the effective rate goes down (and it's pretty flat from $100k to $1M). So far that the richer you are, you end up paying almost the same as some lower middle class people.

        This is not exactly what the progressive tax rate would suggest. The #1 reason, according to the IRS, is unearned income in the form of long term capitol gains. So if you have the means to NOT WORK, you can pay 15% tax on your long term bet that just sits there and does nothing. Which is also to say- the richer you are, there's more incentive to not work and not contribute to society, (such as being a CEO). As you pay only 15% base rate vs. over 33% base rate on your income.

        This is freaking stupid and needs fixed. But that's never going to happen with a real estate person running the country, since real estate increases count as capitol gains.

        Income is income, should not bias it to one way or another like we do. Fix that, and we end up fixing multiple things at the same time- a huge tax hole for people with means and the rather obvious incentive to not work and really contribute.

        BTW, it's fair to note- money tied up in capitol gains is also money that does not flow through our economy. Which is what is needed for growth.
        ceo's don't work?
        a legend and an out of work bum look a lot alike, daddy.

        Comment


        • Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

          Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
          Right now, most people don't really even feel like they pay taxes because they never see the money.
          Complete and utter bulls**t.

          Comment


          • Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

            https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.57a151360481

            President Trump served notice Thursday that he may pull back federal relief workers from Puerto Rico, effectively threatening to abandon the U.S. territory amid a staggering humanitarian crisis in the aftermath of Hurricane Maria.
            What a complete POS.
            **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

            Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
            Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

            Comment


            • Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

              Why is there a state income tax deduction? If you still live in one of the dark blue states you should be willing to own up to your own choices and not be wandering around with your hand out.
              Huskies are very intelligent and trainable. Huskies make an excellent jogging companion, as long as it is not too hot. Grooming is minimal; bathing is normally unnecessary.
              USCHO Fantasy Baseball Champion 2011 2013 2015

              Comment


              • Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

                Originally posted by geezer View Post
                Why is there a state income tax deduction? If you still live in one of the dark blue states you should be willing to own up to your own choices and not be wandering around with your hand out.
                BS. You seen the states that get the most federal money? None of them are blue.
                **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

                Comment


                • Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

                  Originally posted by mookie1995 View Post
                  you mean?!??!



                  Well, I don't mean Dartmouth anyway.
                  Cornell University
                  National Champion 1967, 1970
                  ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                  Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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                  • Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

                    Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                    BS. You seen the states that get the most federal money? None of them are blue.
                    Exactly. Florida and Texas need to start a state income tax and put it into a fund to pay for hurricane disaster recovery so the rest of us can quit paying for it.

                    Comment


                    • Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

                      Do as I say, not as I do: https://***********/ALT_uscis/status/918345705214955520

                      Cornell '04, Stanford '06


                      KDR

                      Rover Frenchy, Classic! Great post.
                      iwh30 I wish I could be as smart as you. I really do you are the man
                      gregg729 I just saw your sig, you do love having people revel in your "intelligence."
                      Ritt18 you are the perfect representation of your alma mater.
                      Miss Thundercat That's it, you win.
                      TBA#2 I want to kill you and dance in your blood.
                      DisplacedCornellian Hahaha. Thread over. Frenchy wins.

                      Test to see if I can add this.

                      Comment


                      • Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

                        Trump nearly walked out without signing his executive order, AGAIN!

                        We have second term Reagan in the first 10 months.
                        Go Green! Go White! Go State!

                        1966, 1986, 2007

                        Go Tigers, Go Packers, Go Red Wings, Go Pistons

                        Comment


                        • Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

                          Originally posted by alfablue View Post
                          Don't mistake actually paying taxes with a fair and equitable rate.

                          I don't doubt that rich people and business owners pay taxes. Not doing so is too risky not to.

                          But is their portion fair or not. For that, I suggest everyone go to IRS.GOV and look at the data. You will see that there's a peak of actual tax rate just below $1M earned, and above that, the effective rate goes down (and it's pretty flat from $100k to $1M). So far that the richer you are, you end up paying almost the same as some lower middle class people.

                          This is not exactly what the progressive tax rate would suggest. The #1 reason, according to the IRS, is unearned income in the form of long term capitol gains. So if you have the means to NOT WORK, you can pay 15% tax on your long term bet that just sits there and does nothing. Which is also to say- the richer you are, there's more incentive to not work and not contribute to society, (such as being a CEO). As you pay only 15% base rate vs. over 33% base rate on your income.

                          This is freaking stupid and needs fixed. But that's never going to happen with a real estate person running the country, since real estate increases count as capitol gains.

                          Income is income, should not bias it to one way or another like we do. Fix that, and we end up fixing multiple things at the same time- a huge tax hole for people with means and the rather obvious incentive to not work and really contribute.

                          BTW, it's fair to note- money tied up in capitol gains is also money that does not flow through our economy. Which is what is needed for growth.
                          I don't claim to be a tax expert or economist, but a couple of comments.

                          First, money "tied up in capital gains" isn't exactly doing nothing, as you claim. If it does nothing, it's not going to produce a capital gain. It's money that is invested in bonds or stocks or real estate or whatever that is (hopefully?) increasing in value so that when I sell it I will sell it at a "gain" which will then be taxed.

                          Smarter people than me will tell me where I'm wrong, but I think there are a number of justifications for a lower capital gains rate. First, a higher capital gains tax discourages savings in the form of investments. Second, a higher capital gains rate negatively affects corporations, who are then encouraged to use debt for financing, as opposed to equity, which can put them into a dicey situation as the economy changes.

                          Finally, I don't know of any evidence to suggest that changing the capital gains rate actually has an effect on income inequality in the country. Income inequality needs to be addressed, but that's simply done by raising the income tax rate on higher income earners. Doing it with the capital gains rate simply doesn't work. The wealthy just change the way they do business.
                          That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                            BS. You seen the states that get the most federal money? None of them are blue.
                            That’s because their incomes are lower so they qualify at higher rates for welfare. It’s not what I was talking about though. If you click the link, places like Maine, CA, MN, and Iowa are getting paid by the rest of us just because their states are screwed up. They’re double-dipping.
                            To clarify, it seems to be a deduction on personal income, so you’d have to compare the federal tax rates on people making the same salary to make a judgment.
                            Last edited by geezer; 10-12-2017, 11:31 AM.
                            Huskies are very intelligent and trainable. Huskies make an excellent jogging companion, as long as it is not too hot. Grooming is minimal; bathing is normally unnecessary.
                            USCHO Fantasy Baseball Champion 2011 2013 2015

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by dave122793 View Post
                              Exactly. Florida and Texas need to start a state income tax and put it into a fund to pay for hurricane disaster recovery so the rest of us can quit paying for it.
                              It’s a different topic. TX pays no state tax, so they’re paying a much larger share of federal taxes than Californians who appear to be ducking out of about 13%.
                              Huskies are very intelligent and trainable. Huskies make an excellent jogging companion, as long as it is not too hot. Grooming is minimal; bathing is normally unnecessary.
                              USCHO Fantasy Baseball Champion 2011 2013 2015

                              Comment


                              • Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

                                Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
                                Finally, I don't know of any evidence to suggest that changing the capital gains rate actually has an effect on income inequality in the country. Income inequality needs to be addressed, but that's simply done by raising the income tax rate on higher income earners. Doing it with the capital gains rate simply doesn't work. The wealthy just change the way they do business.
                                Capital gains is lower than earned income because rich people control the government. The rest is a cover story.
                                Cornell University
                                National Champion 1967, 1970
                                ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                                Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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