Christ is Risen!

[Dude Love]

Re: Christ is Risen!

Devoid of logic. Joining leswp1 in 5....4....

Logic? Isn't this the thread about the resurrection of a magical carpenter from 2000 years ago?

[5mn_Major]

Re: Christ is Risen!

Statistically, the happiest nations on Earth are Denmark, Norway, Finland, and the Netherlands. Source All of which are rather irreligious.

Sounds like an open and shut case. Couldn't it be that Scandinavians are happier because the region is the richest and has the highest standard of living in the world? Personally the blondes would do it for me.

Oh and there's a link between stress and religious happiness. Source It's just sooooo surprising that in times of stress a group that has a regularly meeting social group is a little happier.

The summary of religion and happiness from wiki...

There is now extensive research suggesting that religious people are happier and less stressed.[1][2] There are a number of mechanisms through which religion may make a person happier, including social contact and support that result from religious pursuits, the mental activity that comes with optimism and volunteering, learned coping strategies that enhance one's ability to deal with stress, and psychological factors such as "reason for being." It may also be that religious people engage in behaviors related to good health, such as less substance abuse) since the use of psychotropic substances is sometimes considered abuse.

[Foxton]

Re: Christ is Risen!

Sounds like an open and shut case. Couldn't it be that Scandinavians are happier because the region is the richest and has the highest standard of living in the world? Personally the blondes would do it for me.

Which reinforces that other source which pointed out the link between social/economic conditions and religion.

The summary of religion and happiness from wiki...

There is now extensive research suggesting that religious people are happier and less stressed.[1][2] There are a number of mechanisms through which religion may make a person happier, including social contact and support that result from religious pursuits, the mental activity that comes with optimism and volunteering, learned coping strategies that enhance one's ability to deal with stress, and psychological factors such as "reason for being." It may also be that religious people engage in behaviors related to good health, such as less substance abuse) since the use of psychotropic substances is sometimes considered abuse.

While wiki is a nice place to start looking for information, everything in bold can just as easily be found going to other social groups, negating it as a benefit purely found from religion. Connecting happiness from religion in this way is like saying the economy will get better if you stop spending and give the rich, I mean job creators tax cuts. It's focusing on one tree without noticing the forest.

[FreshFish]

Re: Christ is Risen!

everything in bold can just as easily be found going to other social groups, negating it as a benefit purely found from religion.

In other words, people do get these benefits from religion, and they also can find them elsewhere as well.

[Kepler]

Re: Christ is Risen!

Sounds like an open and shut case. Couldn't it be that Scandinavians are happier because the region is the richest and has the highest standard of living in the world? Personally the blondes would do it for me.

If it is was hair color the Irish would be the happiest.

Well, until they turned 29.

[DaveStPaul]

Re: Christ is Risen!

Statistically, the happiest nations on Earth are Denmark, Norway, Finland, and the Netherlands. Source All of which are rather irreligious.

Don't they also blow their brains out with alarming frequency up there?

[5mn_Major]

Re: Christ is Risen!

Which reinforces that other source which pointed out the link between social/economic conditions and religion..

A New York Times 2011 study says that American Catholics, Lutherans, Mormons, Methodists, Presbyterians, Orthodox Christians, Buddhists, Unitarians, Anglicans/Episcopalians, Conservative Jews, Reform Jews and Hindus all have higher income rates than the national average. Go fish again.

While wiki is a nice place to start looking for information, everything in bold can just as easily be found going to other social groups, negating it as a benefit purely found from religion. Connecting happiness from religion in this way is like saying the economy will get better if you stop spending and give the rich, I mean job creators tax cuts. It's focusing on one tree without noticing the forest.

Who said happiness is purely found in religion?

Doesn't matter whether its forest or trees...statistically people of faith are happier.

[huskyfan]

Re: Christ is Risen!

anyone who looks at life with caring compassion love and gratitude is going to be happier. duh.

I'm curious. for those who revile the Christian faith. how do you feel about other faiths? Jews? Muslims? Hindus? Buddhists?

if the Christian theology is a little hard to follow (and it sure can be), perhaps a faith like Buddhism can be easier. and it teaches all the good stuff - love, self sacrifice, compassion, community, appreciation of nature, without having to directly "worship" a "God".

[LynahFan]

Re: Christ is Risen!

anyone who looks at life with caring compassion love and gratitude is going to be happier. duh.

I'll buy this.

However, not all (not even CLOSE to all) Christians I have met (and I grew up in Tennessee, so I've met a lot) fall into that category. In my unscientific, anecdotal estimation, the proportion of Christians who are those things really isn't any higher or lower than the general population. Even if someone were able to define a metric and find a correlation, is that because people who are naturally compassionate are drawn to Christianity, or because Christianity causes people to become more compassionate than they otherwise would have been?

edit: I've personally witnessed many of my friends who started out as very kind, compassionate people transform into judgmental, self-righteous, jerks as they got deeper and deeper into their "faith." The more Bible study and theological reading they do, the more they start to care about the nuances of infant vs. adult baptism, etc and the less they start to care about loving their neighbors. You don't need a Bible study or a church or even a religion to love your neighbors - you just don't.

[French Rage]

Re: Christ is Risen!

Don't they also blow their brains out with alarming frequency up there?

You spend your entire life eating mackerel and see how you feel.

[Foxton]

Re: Christ is Risen!

A New York Times 2011 study says that American Catholics, Lutherans, Mormons, Methodists, Presbyterians, Orthodox Christians, Buddhists, Unitarians, Anglicans/Episcopalians, Conservative Jews, Reform Jews and Hindus all have higher income rates than the national average. Go fish again.

This study? Where's secular at?
*****http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/05/15/magazine/15-Leonhardt/15-Leonhardt-popup-v4.jpg******
And considering you just listed off about 85% of the population, go figure that they might have a higher average income than the other 15%. And jews control the fed/banks so they will obviously have higher income.

statistically people of faith are happier.

Faith in what? It's not intrinsic to any particular religion if it's a blanket statement. And yes it does matter if it's forest or a tree. What methodology is being used to calculate how much happier these people are? What are the overlaps? As per your own quote, nearly everything you gave as a reason why people of "faith" are happier can be found elsewhere.

Oh look, another study that also points out that it's the social interaction, not any specific part of the religion that increases happiness.

[DaveStPaul]

Re: Christ is Risen!

You spend your entire life eating mackerel and see how you feel.

Uh, no thanks, their actions speak for themselves.

[5mn_Major]

Re: Christ is Risen!

This study? Where's secular at?

Its approximately average...and the dispersion of data points in no way reinforces your point of a relationship between religion and socioeconomic status.

Faith in what? It's not intrinsic to any particular religion if it's a blanket statement. And yes it does matter if it's forest or a tree. What methodology is being used to calculate how much happier these people are? What are the overlaps? As per your own quote, nearly everything you gave as a reason why people of "faith" are happier can be found elsewhere.

Oh look, another study that also points out that it's the social interaction, not any specific part of the religion that increases happiness.

You're the one who's been making blanket statements about faith.

Congrats on your second study. I've been saying evidence is not slanted towards religion makes folks unhappy as you're claiming.

[Foxton]

Re: Christ is Risen!

Its approximately average...and the dispersion of data points in no way reinforces your point of a relationship between religion and socioeconomic status.

Perhaps if you had read the source about socioeconomic status and how religious someone is you'd understand why I don't care to repeat a point you are missing. And claims of being a part of a religion are not the same as how serious they are about following through with it.

You're the one who's been making blanket statements about faith.

Okay.

Congrats on your second study. I've been saying evidence is not slanted towards religion makes folks unhappy as you're claiming.

When did I say religion makes folks unhappy? Quote pls. I've only ever said that the things that make religious people happy are things that can be found elsewhere and it's not due to it being somehow superior.

[leswp1]

Re: Christ is Risen!

I'll buy this.

However, not all (not even CLOSE to all) Christians I have met (and I grew up in Tennessee, so I've met a lot) fall into that category. In my unscientific, anecdotal estimation, the proportion of Christians who are those things really isn't any higher or lower than the general population. Even if someone were able to define a metric and find a correlation, is that because people who are naturally compassionate are drawn to Christianity, or because Christianity causes people to become more compassionate than they otherwise would have been?

edit: I've personally witnessed many of my friends who started out as very kind, compassionate people transform into judgmental, self-righteous, jerks as they got deeper and deeper into their "faith." The more Bible study and theological reading they do, the more they start to care about the nuances of infant vs. adult baptism, etc and the less they start to care about loving their neighbors. You don't need a Bible study or a church or even a religion to love your neighbors - you just don't.

I think it depends on where you are living/ what type of faith is prevelent. One of our local Baptist churches is a fire and brimstone variety- they are really the only ones that teach everyone goes to Hell who is not a believer. The other Baptist church is a God loves everyone type. Most people around here are Catholic and definitely not of the everyone goes to Hell type. That would take too much effort to think about on their part.

When I was in grad school we had to take a class on Family Systems (fascinating!). One of the activities was splitting people into different groups by Faiths. There were Lutherans (all 2 of us) and then he split the Catholics (most of the remainder) into ethnic Catholic groups- French, Irish, Italian are the ones I remember. We had to discuss in our group the roll of Church and God in the family structure. I had always assumed Catholics were the same. Each group described a completely different experience with God and Church. The Irish group thought God was vindictive and angry, out to get them if they screwed up. The French thought God was judgemental and punished their sins but not as angry as the Irish God. The Italians thought God would get over almost anything and altho he was important it didn't scare them to mess up. It was one of the most interesting classes we had. Very enlightening.

Don't they also blow their brains out with alarming frequency up there?

Ha I thought that too. Bipolar populations? Either happy as pigs in poo or suicidal.