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POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

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  • Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

    Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
    A president pardoning himself is an entirely different beast. As I recall, that same issue came up during Nixon, and I'm pretty sure that there aren't many people out there who think a president could successfully pardon himself, even those who thought that a president can't be indicted while in office.

    Now, if anyone were to try it, it would probably be Trump. Personally I think that effort would ultimately fail.
    I'm not sure why you don't see that as the immediate threat. This president thinks he is above the law, they propose that he can shoot someone, and not be indited for it. And since he can pardon himself, he can then do that, and not be prosecuted after Congress impeaches him out of office.

    That is incredibly dangerous.

    Heck, he thinks he can't be indited for things he did BEFORE he was president. And since he can pardon himself, whatever he did that was against the law, he can pardon himself for now, and be free after ending the presidency. That's completely insane.

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    • Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

      Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
      They are arguing the same thing that has been argued multiple times in the past, and which has never actually been decided by the Supreme Court -- Can a sitting president be indicted and forced to stand trial while in office.

      I think legal scholars are split on the question, and there is probably enough reading material for you on the subject to fill your day, if you're interested.

      No one is arguing that the president is above the law or ultimately can't be prosecuted for his acts. The argument is that while he is in office, Congress would first have to impeach him (which even this congress would do if he killed someone, or had them killed), then he would be prosecuted.
      That is not what they are "arguing".

      They are flat out telling you he cannot be indicted, subpoenaed, or compelled to appear in court in any way. That he is above the law, and does not have to follow it. That he can kill people willfully with no consequences. And if such efforts were made toward him, he's still beyond the reach of the law because he can simply pardon himself for whatever crimes he has committed.

      And you'll be ok with that because, after all, "he has the authority".


      When are you going to start listening to what they are actually telling you, instead of "interpreting" what they are saying.
      What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

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      • Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

        Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
        Not sure this is better than 1968. You have a combination of 1968 and 1972-73 going on at the same time this time. That's a doubling down we've never had before.
        We have a lot fewer violent protests, and so far, nobody has been shot at a campus protesting what the orange moron is doing. We are a lot better than '68.

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        • Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

          Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
          A president pardoning himself is an entirely different beast. As I recall, that same issue came up during Nixon, and I'm pretty sure that there aren't many people out there who think a president could successfully pardon himself, even those who thought that a president can't be indicted while in office.

          Now, if anyone were to try it, it would probably be Trump. Personally I think that effort would ultimately fail.
          You have an unbridled, almost naïve, trust in today's institutional constraints on a president, and the people of this country. It's almost charming that you have such trust, given what we've seen the last 30 years.
          What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

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          • Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

            Originally posted by Spartanforlife4 View Post
            Day 24 of Melania Watch. Now she will not be traveling to the NK summit or G7.

            Looks like we have reached the divorce storyline in House of Cards, except she's not American so they can't randomly make up to become running mates.
            I think ICE might have deported her.
            What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

            Comment


            • Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

              Originally posted by rufus View Post
              I think ICE might have deported her.
              Nah. White.
              Cornell University
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              • Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

                Originally posted by rufus View Post
                That is not what they are "arguing".

                They are flat out telling you he cannot be indicted, subpoenaed, or compelled to appear in court in any way. That he is above the law, and does not have to follow it. That he can kill people willfully with no consequences. And if such efforts were made toward him, he's still beyond the reach of the law because he can simply pardon himself for whatever crimes he has committed.

                And you'll be ok with that because, after all, "he has the authority".


                When are you going to start listening to what they are actually telling you, instead of "interpreting" what they are saying.
                First, I'm not going to pretend to argue with you about what Trump does or does not think. Candidly, I don't care because unlike most people, apparently, I still believe in our legal system. Trump can say he can pardon himself, but I wouldn't want to bet that he'll get away with that.

                I think you can break it down into three categories -- What Trump thinks, what his legal team is arguing, and what the law actually provides.

                Trump no doubt thinks that while he is in office he is basically immune, and that if necessary he can give himself a get out of jail free card by pardoning himself. Personally I think that if he tests that, he's going to be sadly mistaken.

                I think Trump's legal team is arguing that while still in office Trump can't be indicted, subpoenaed or compelled to testify. The remedy is to impeach him. The unspoken part of that argument is that once he is out of office, he may very well be indicted, subpoenaed or compelled to testify, and can be successfully prosecuted unless he is pardoned.

                I suspect, but don't know for certain, that the law will go this way:

                Indictment and prosecution -- Have to wait until impeached, resigns or term runs out.
                Compelled to testify, respond to subpoenas -- May depend upon whether the act occurred before taking office or after. I think the Clinton case resulted in a ruling that for acts that occurred before taking office a president can be questioned, which lead to Clinton's deposition. I think it's still an open question about whether the president can be questioned or compelled to answer a subpoena about acts that occurred while in office, until he is impeached, resigns or his term runs out. At that point he's fair game.

                Once the president is out of office, he can be indicted and prosecuted for any matter that occurred while in office or while out of office, unless he is pardoned. I don't think a president can successfully pardon himself.
                That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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                • Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

                  Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                  LOL

                  We elected Trump. That's enough for me. Not only that but we elected him over a woman that we were bitter wasn't locked up in jail for doing nothing wrong.
                  Unless his election has personally affected you (and if so you have my sympathies) do what I do and take pleasure in watching his supporters take it in the shorts over his policies. You can also get some humor out of asking the people who sat out the election if they still think there was no difference between the candidates! Bottom line Scooby, once you learn to have fun at other people's expense for the idiotic political decisions they make, life gets a lot more enjoyable.
                  Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

                  Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

                  "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

                  Comment


                  • Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

                    Originally posted by Rover View Post
                    Unless his election has personally affected you (and if so you have my sympathies) do what I do and take pleasure in watching his supporters take it in the shorts over his policies.
                    Unless you've figured out how to be insulated from the natural environment and the US and global economies, you have been personally affected.
                    Cornell University
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                    ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
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                    • Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

                      Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                      Unless you've figured out how to be insulated from the natural environment and the US and global economies, you have been personally affected.
                      Bingo.
                      **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                      Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                      Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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                      • Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                        ROTFLMAO

                        I'm 50 and have family that's not moving. I'm not leaving my family so I can get out of this ****hole. Just like any other father who lives in another ****hole.
                        The grass isn’t always greener.
                        Originally posted by BobbyBrady
                        Crosby probably wouldn't even be on BC's top two lines next year

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                        • Originally posted by Drew S. View Post
                          The grass isn’t always greener.
                          But many times it is.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by unofan View Post
                            But many times it is.
                            Certainly can be greener in some European nations I’ve lived in

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                            • Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

                              Originally posted by alfablue View Post
                              We have a lot fewer violent protests, and so far, nobody has been shot at a campus protesting what the orange moron is doing. We are a lot better than '68.
                              I'll bet the body count from our school mass murders now is much higher than the riots and the campus shootings in 68.

                              We'll call cops murdering unarmed blacks a wash since they've been doing that all along, they just didn't have cell phones in 68.

                              In 68 the federal government and the judiciary were gradually on the upswing of cleaning out the reactionary sewers. Now they're in the vanguard of the movement to return us to the brutality of a righty worldview. So that part's worse.

                              And in 68 people were turning out in the streets and making a difference. Now the 1% have found ways to lull everyone into a deep and dreamless slumber. So that part's a lot worse.
                              Cornell University
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                              ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                              Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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                              • Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

                                Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
                                Just out of curiosity, what's stopping you guys?
                                I stay. You can't steal my country. Not to put too fine a point on it, but f-ck you.

                                Last edited by Kepler; 06-04-2018, 10:25 AM.
                                Cornell University
                                National Champion 1967, 1970
                                ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                                Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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