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  • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

    Originally posted by Kepler View Post
    Tonight on That's Inevitable...
    The Dems should be doing everything they can to force this. The GOP wants this, let them have it. This will backfire so badly no GOP legislator will be safe. (especially if they go Nuclear)

    Nothing is going to stop the repeal anyways...Trump promised it and Ryan has been praying for it for years. TrumpCare is going to be their undoing. Everyone knows what this is, even the people who dont normally pay attention. Conservative and Liberal groups are completely against it and will make sure everyone knows why. There wont be any more town halls because not one of these clowns is going to want to be in public when they see the reaction.

    In two years everyone will be begging for ObamaCare back but it will be too late.

    If I had the means, I would be buying stock in every Health Care Company I could because they are going to make a massive windfall on all of this!
    "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
    -aparch

    "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
    -INCH

    Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
    -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

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    • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

      Originally posted by Handyman View Post
      The Dems should be doing everything they can to force this. The GOP wants this, let them have it. This will backfire so badly no GOP legislator will be safe. (especially if they go Nuclear)

      Nothing is going to stop the repeal anyways...Trump promised it and Ryan has been praying for it for years. TrumpCare is going to be their undoing. Everyone knows what this is, even the people who dont normally pay attention. Conservative and Liberal groups are completely against it and will make sure everyone knows why. There wont be any more town halls because not one of these clowns is going to want to be in public when they see the reaction.

      In two years everyone will be begging for ObamaCare back but it will be too late.

      If I had the means, I would be buying stock in every Health Care Company I could because they are going to make a massive windfall on all of this!
      I agree with all of this.

      I also support the end of the 60-vote cloture limit. IINM it was 67 for most of our history. Make it 51. The Senate's longer terms and three classes still make it the "cooling" body, and as I've said before the 60 vote limit allows Senators to spread incendiary rhetoric and poison the well because they know the other party will save them.

      Let the GOP force through all their backwards lunacy and then stab them in the face for what it does to people -- by the look of it, what it does most to their own dumb voters. The Republican party has had a fifty year holiday from the consequences of their spiteful lies. Make them answer for it: give the American people a taste of what life in the GOP's neofeudal utopia is like.

      It's finally time to call the schoolyard bully's bluff.
      Last edited by Kepler; 03-10-2017, 07:58 AM.
      Cornell University
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      • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

        Originally posted by Kepler View Post
        I agree with all of this.

        I also support the end of the 60-vote cloture limit. IINM it was 67 for most of our history. Make it 51. The Senate's longer terms and three classes still make it the "cooling" body, and as I've said before the 60 vote limit allows Senators to spread incendiary rhetoric and poison the well because they know the other party will save them.

        Let the GOP force through all their backwards lunacy and then stab them in the face for what it does to people -- by the look of it, what it does most to their own dumb voters. The Republican party has had a fifty year holiday from the consequences of their spiteful lies. Make them answer for it: give the American people a taste of what life in the GOP's neofeudal utopia is like.

        It's finally time to call the schoolyard bully's bluff.
        Exactly. Let them do all of it and when they try and blame the Dems even the most out of touch GOPer will know it is a bunch of crap.

        If Trump was half the businessman he pretends to be he would be getting away from this one as fast as possible. Hell he should be doing touchdown dances over the jobs report (not that he is responsible but still as always the Prez gets the credit) but everyone is ignoring it because of this Edsel of a plan.
        "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
        -aparch

        "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
        -INCH

        Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
        -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

        Comment


        • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

          Count me in. Two sets of people should be the ones losing insurance. 1) Trump votes, 2) non-voters (who are eligible to vote of course). Take it in the shorts people. You've earned it!
          Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

          Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

          "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

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          • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

            Originally posted by Handyman View Post
            Exactly. Let them do all of it and when they try and blame the Dems even the most out of touch GOPer will know it is a bunch of crap.
            Not all, not even most. 30% of the electorate (read: 60% of Republicans) are hopeless -- they would feed their own child into the wood chipper if O'Reilly or Trump told them to.

            But that leaves 70% of the electorate including 40% of Republicans who will finally understand exactly what "a government small enough to drown in a bathtub" means: no protection when the strong come to pound the weak into the dirt.
            Cornell University
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            • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

              Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
              WHo gives a **** about competition when the only player in town is a non-profit and has absolutely no profit motive whatsoever?
              your naivete is touching.

              apparently your government is immune to kickbacks and bribery. lucky you. in NY state, there is plenty of under-the-table profit motive from government employees, and they don't have anywhere near the oversight and audit trails found elsewhere.

              "and he so loved the DMV and the IRS, that he hired them to run his health insurance plan." no thanks. over half the people at the IRS give taxpayers erroneous information. why do you expect anything better here?
              Last edited by FreshFish; 03-10-2017, 09:29 AM.
              "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

              "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

              "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

              "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

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              • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

                Originally posted by alfablue View Post
                So you are fully ok with a company that sole job is to make a profit telling me how I can spend my healtcare dollars? They do NOTHING other than that.
                after Hurricane Katrina, for example, State Farm and Allstate set up mobile offices to help people with their homeowners insurance claims. They went to the people who suffered losses; they did not wait for those people to come to them.


                Every time I had to deal with my auto insurance company over a claim, they were helpful, responsive, and prompt in their payment.


                what makes you think that the government will be more responsive and more helpful than that??
                "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

                "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

                "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

                "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

                Comment


                • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

                  One problem with letting this happen.

                  r's are trying to push the medicade/medicare expansion back onto the states- for state's right's reasons. In theory, it's their domain.

                  Great.

                  But do get that expansion, the states would be REQUIRED to raise taxes. Someone needs to explain how that's going to happen. Even if the federal tax is lowered the correct amount to let the states run the funding, I see it as a 0% chance that states will increase taxes accordingly. It's far, far more likely that they will further cut taxes (for business) which means less medicare/medicade AND less education- which has been being cut for a couple of decades now.

                  Basically, the whole system will further decline. To the point where government will not likely be effective in running anything.

                  (I often wonder what the end goal of all of this is)

                  Comment


                  • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

                    Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
                    your naivete is touching
                    People who still believe in the Trickle Down Fairy after the last 36 years don't get to call anybody "naive."

                    If you're a billionaire you're a cynic. Otherwise you're a sucker.
                    Cornell University
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                    • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

                      Originally posted by alfablue View Post
                      (I often wonder what the end goal of all of this is)
                      The end goal is 1888. A few thousand Trump-esque families control all the wealth and land and use the law to hold the rest of the population in serfdom. They want a division into two classes: trillionaires and people right at the poverty line who are forced to do anything for a dollar.

                      The GOP wants to repeal the 20th Century. They want to reverse everything Obama, Clinton, LBJ, FDR and TR did. They want a government which maintains a police state run for the Haves.
                      Last edited by Kepler; 03-10-2017, 09:33 AM.
                      Cornell University
                      National Champion 1967, 1970
                      ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                      Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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                      • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

                        Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                        Not all, not even most. 30% of the electorate (read: 60% of Republicans) are hopeless -- they would feed their own child into the wood chipper if O'Reilly or Trump told them to.

                        But that leaves 70% of the electorate including 40% of Republicans who will finally understand exactly what "a government small enough to drown in a bathtub" means: no protection when the strong come to pound the weak into the dirt.
                        Dude you really need to read up about what is going on. That 30% are the ones showing up ****ed. There is a reason the Tea Party came out against the plan. Even the hopeless care when it is their crap being taken away.
                        "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                        -aparch

                        "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                        -INCH

                        Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                        -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                        Comment


                        • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

                          Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
                          your naivete is touching.

                          apparently your government is immune to kickbacks and bribery. lucky you. in NY state, there is plenty of under-the-table profit motive from government employees, and they don't have anywhere near the oversight and audit trails found elsewhere.

                          "and he so loved the DMV and the IRS, that he hired them to run his health insurance plan." no thanks. over half the people at the IRS give taxpayers erroneous information. why do you expect anything better here?
                          Your lack of knowledge is concerning...
                          "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                          -aparch

                          "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                          -INCH

                          Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                          -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                          Comment


                          • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

                            Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
                            your naivete is touching.

                            apparently your government is immune to kickbacks and bribery. lucky you. in NY state, there is plenty of under-the-table profit motive from government employees, and they don't have anywhere near the oversight and audit trails found elsewhere.

                            "and he so loved the DMV and the IRS, that he hired them to run his health insurance plan." no thanks. over half the people at the IRS give taxpayers erroneous information. why do you expect anything better here?
                            As if that does not happen in a private company.

                            Ironic that you think someone else is naive.

                            Comment


                            • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

                              If I may please call for a temporary truce?

                              We are all primarily in far more agreement than we have acknowledged.

                              I assume we all favor a vibrant and robust health care sector in which people receive quality care effectively, compassionately, and economically.

                              All of us are wary and suspicious of the economic power of large health care conglomerates, both in the insurance market (dominated by 4 or 5 companies) and in the consolidation of provider networks (hospital groups buying multiple private practices in a geographic area to centralize the record-keeping and bookkeeping functions, and also gaining monopoly control in large swaths of many states).

                              We have been using the word "profit" to mean two different things, so that neither of us had a clue what the other was talking about (in a sense).



                              There is an accounting definition of "profit" that is very misleading, because it is analogous to interest income, just from a different source. Who would deny a lender interest income on the money they lent?


                              On the other hand, there is a level that is reasonable, and a level beyond that which is reasonable. In lending, there are anti-usury laws; but the only thing that keeps accounting "profits" in the realm of reasonable is competition: if you are making outsize profits, then I'll invest there too, and accept a lower profit than you will because it is still higher than what I am getting now.




                              None of us trust large insurance companies to be healthcare stewards, I certainly don't. I don't trust direct government involvement either. We need a referee, and if the government is involved directly, then to whom do we appeal when they are wrong?




                              Look at the medical devices industry right now. Amazing pace of innovation. We know healthcare is too expensive; hundreds of startups that specialize in making one particular part work better, more cheaply, they are thriving.



                              After putting all those disparate thoughts together, I had an 'aha' moment, just for the sake of pondering: maybe what we really need is a lot more insurance companies! Instead of four or five, how about twelve or fifteen?
                              "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

                              "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

                              "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

                              "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

                              Comment


                              • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

                                Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                                Dude you really need to read up about what is going on. That 30% are the ones showing up ****ed. There is a reason the Tea Party came out against the plan. Even the hopeless care when it is their crap being taken away.
                                I hope so, but I'll believe it when I see it at the ballot box.
                                Cornell University
                                National Champion 1967, 1970
                                ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                                Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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