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Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

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  • #91
    Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

    For Mr. pgb-ohio, I guess the rationale of this thread was to solicit opinion and compare it to mine. Here you have Notre Dame in their 3rd conference in what, 5 years although leaving the CCHA was certainly not their fault.
    And it is a marriage of convenience that benefits both Notre Dame and the B1G at this point in time. My concern is what will keep Notre Dame here and what will it do to our conference if they for whatever reason choose to leave?
    I personally feel the independence Notre Dame has enjoyed all these years has not worked to the benefit overall of the various conferences they align with for different sports because of their ability to leave a conference and align with a new one that's willing.
    I think Notre Dame would be a natural as a full B1G member. Some have pointed out that research universities and other factors of education dominate the Big Ten however I would remind people that the Big Ten was formed in 1895 with the sole intent to promote intercollegiate athletics, not to promote other aspects of the member schools although that seems to be some of the focus in these modern times.
    From what I'm told the conference is more focused on wanting a west coast university as a potential member so the conference's sphere of influence would extend coast to coast - a huge boost in broadcast revenue for it's TV network but if Notre Dame wanted to fully join they would with the right conditions accept them.
    But back to what I was originally saying, I'm glad to play them in hockey but the just don't FEEL like part of the conference to me without them being a full fledged member school because this IS Big Ten hockey and the CCHA days of not having our own conference for hockey are gone. If we had more B1G schools with a hockey team would we be really willing to allow an outside program in if we had the numbers we desired?

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    • #92
      Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

      I touched on this before, but again just for clarity --> Notre Dame is locked into the ACC for 20 years.

      Football is contracted to play 5 ACC teams/year through 2037. The schedule is already out. (In 2036 they play @ Virginia Tech on Labor Day if you want to get your tickets early.)

      All other sports (except hockey, of course) play in the ACC and the broadcast rights to those sports are locked up with the ACC TV deal for 20 years. ACC teams can still leave the conference, but their broadcast rights remain with the conference as part of the ESPN backed ACC TV deal launching in 2019. Obviously members agreed to this to guarantee stability within the conference for the TV deal investment. Could somebody negotiate and buy their way out? Always can, but the network deal $$ is going to make the cost of any such negotiated move astronomical.

      So effectively Notre Dame CAN'T join the B1G or any other conference until at least 2038.
      Originally posted by WiscTJK
      I'm with Wisko and Tim.
      Originally posted by Timothy A
      Other than Wisko McBadgerton and Badger Bob, who is universally loved by all?

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      • #93
        Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

        Originally posted by Wisko McBadgerton View Post
        I touched on this before, but again just for clarity --> Notre Dame is locked into the ACC for 20 years.

        Football is contracted to play 5 ACC teams/year through 2037. The schedule is already out. (In 2036 they play @ Virginia Tech on Labor Day if you want to get your tickets early.)

        All other sports (except hockey, of course) play in the ACC and the broadcast rights to those sports are locked up with the ACC TV deal for 20 years. ACC teams can still leave the conference, but their broadcast rights remain with the conference as part of the ESPN backed ACC TV deal launching in 2019. Obviously members agreed to this to guarantee stability within the conference for the TV deal investment. Could somebody negotiate and buy their way out? Always can, but the network deal $$ is going to make the cost of any such negotiated move astronomical.

        So effectively Notre Dame CAN'T join the B1G or any other conference until at least 2038.
        Kind of reminds me of a local situation. A large commercial expansion happened in my community and the school board signed off on giving huge tax abatements for like 16 years. I ran into the school treasurer and mentioned we were suckers to do that and she said I wasn't the first one to say that.
        Sounds like Notre Dame are the suckers for their deal.

        Comment


        • #94
          Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

          If two schools, lets say Nebraska and Illinois were to add hockey teams, would ND be kicked out of the Big 10 hockey conference? Seems the only reason they were added was to get the conference numbers up.
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          • #95
            Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

            Originally posted by giwan View Post
            Right, but you let ND in to play hockey. $$$ They have been criticized by big ten folk$ for a variety of academic reason$ yet the $lippery $lope ha$ $tarted.
            There's no slippery slope. ND is ranked among the top 50 research universities with other B1G schools. That's one of the general criteria necessary for B1G affiliate membership, but full inclusion criteria to the AAU and the BTAA is more detailed involving both major on-campus research facilities, and faculty who are consistently research intensive (publishing research) and members of the National Academy of Sciences (NAS).

            The BTAA values and policies are directly aligned with the Association of American Universities (AAU), which comprise a broad membership of comprehensive universities distinguished by the disciplinary breadth and quality of their programs of graduate education and research.

            As I stated earlier, ND undergrad program is research competitive enough to satisfy B1G academic standards. Although the grad program is more research oriented especially in the domain of healthcare, it does not have a medical school of which academic indicators carry high point value for AAU and BTAA inclusion.

            AAU and BTAA membership carries a high level of academic prestige, but the academic and research inclusion criteria is rigorous. One of the reasons Nebraska was removed from AAU membership after acceptance into the B1G, was because their medical school was considered off-campus and they lost significant point value to qualify.

            The only criticism leveled against ND for full inclusion in the B1G is satisfying the BTAA criteria. I suspect as ND has upgraded their facilities and faculty research requirements, there will be another review by the AAU and BTAA for ND in the near future.

            Comment


            • #96
              Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

              The Big Ten's CIC academic alliance is truly a intellectual university powerhouse without global peer. The research dollars for the B1G is about $10B. Just to put that in context...that is larger than the Ivy League and the entire University of California system combined.

              I'm of the opinion that we should extend a full CIC invite to John Hopkins. The school is ranked 10th in universities undergrad programs and 13th in post grad worldwide. It has had 37 Nobel laureates, earns $2.2B in federal research grants (#1 for the 35th straight year) and its research is the 3rd most cited institution in the world.

              Notre Dame...not so much. It would certainly not be a win/win and when the school chose the ACC, it made its bed. Anything else is and should be a narrow relationship between the organizations of convenience.
              Go Gophers!

              Comment


              • #97
                Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

                Originally posted by DLW4GOPHERS View Post
                If two schools, lets say Nebraska and Illinois were to add hockey teams, would ND be kicked out of the Big 10 hockey conference? Seems the only reason they were added was to get the conference numbers up.
                No. You never kick out. You only add.
                Code:
                As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                College Hockey 6       College Football 0
                BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                Originally posted by SanTropez
                May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                Originally posted by Kepler
                When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

                Comment


                • #98
                  Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

                  Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post
                  The Big Ten's CIC academic alliance is truly a intellectual university powerhouse without global peer. The research dollars for the B1G is about $10B. Just to put that in context...that is larger than the Ivy League and the entire University of California system combined.

                  I'm of the opinion that we should extend a full CIC invite to John Hopkins. The school is ranked 10th in universities undergrad programs and 13th in post grad worldwide. It has had 37 Nobel laureates, earns $2.2B in federal research grants (#1 for the 35th straight year) and its research is the 3rd most cited institution in the world.

                  Notre Dame...not so much. It would certainly not be a win/win and when the school chose the ACC, it made its bed. Anything else is and should be a narrow relationship between the organizations of convenience.
                  There is no CIC. CIC = BTAA now. JH is not competitive in all sports to qualify for full membership in the B1G. ND is much closer to satisfying UAA and BTAA academic requirements now than 10 years ago and their sports programs would enhance the branding, popularity and quality of Big Ten sports. They will get an invite in the near future.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

                    Originally posted by SteveO View Post
                    There is no CIC. CIC = BTAA now. JH is not competitive in all sports to qualify for full membership in the B1G. ND is much closer to satisfying UAA and BTAA academic requirements now than 10 years ago and their sports programs would enhance the branding, popularity and quality of Big Ten sports. They will get an invite in the near future.
                    I *was* going to reply about Chicago, but I see they are no longer members. What happened to them?

                    Still, given the all the things Notre Dame- I'd bet they could fit pretty quickly into the group if fully invited, as you suggest. To the point that it could be worth them abandoning the ACC due to the BTAA.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

                      Originally posted by alfablue View Post
                      I *was* going to reply about Chicago, but I see they are no longer members. What happened to them?

                      Still, given the all the things Notre Dame- I'd bet they could fit pretty quickly into the group if fully invited, as you suggest. To the point that it could be worth them abandoning the ACC due to the BTAA.
                      They’re still there. They just don’t know what to call them according to this.

                      http://www.news-gazette.com/news/loc...isibility.html
                      Code:
                      As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                      College Hockey 6       College Football 0
                      BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                      Originally posted by SanTropez
                      May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                      Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                      I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                      Originally posted by Kepler
                      When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                      He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

                      Comment


                      • Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

                        Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
                        They’re still there. They just don’t know what to call them according to this.

                        http://www.news-gazette.com/news/loc...isibility.html
                        But they are not listed on the member list- https://www.btaa.org/about/member-universities

                        If they are really part, JH can be part, too.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

                          They aren’t a formal member, but they are still part of the collaboration best I can tell.
                          Code:
                          As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                          College Hockey 6       College Football 0
                          BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                          Originally posted by SanTropez
                          May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                          Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                          I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                          Originally posted by Kepler
                          When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                          He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

                          Comment


                          • Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

                            Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post
                            I'm of the opinion that we should extend a full CIC invite to John Hopkins.
                            You do know that Johns Hopkins is DIII except for lacrosse, in which they play up?

                            Originally posted by SteveO View Post
                            ND is much closer to satisfying UAA and BTAA academic requirements now than 10 years ago and their sports programs would enhance the branding, popularity and quality of Big Ten sports. They will get an invite in the near future.
                            I believe you mean AAU. Speaking of, I'm still waiting for the the BIG and BTAA to invite BU to join since they are a member of the AAU and the would add to the geographic footprint of the B1G (which I hear is very important , or else Iowa State would be a strong candidate as they are also a member of the AAU).

                            Sean
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                            Comment


                            • Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

                              No, I mean both.
                              Last edited by SteveO; 03-30-2018, 09:12 AM.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

                                Also, Chicago is one of the top universities in the world and a former full time big ten member.

                                JHU is only one of those. The BTAA is a gigantic carrot to dangle in front of universities. They aren’t going to give it out to anyone just because they are a good school. There has to be a benefit to all member institutions.

                                There’s also the infrastructure costs as well. Most of these universities have high speed fiber (often privately owned by the institutions) connecting their campuses. There is also the logistical issues that come from sharing research and entire libraries.

                                JHU would be an excellent addition to the BTAA someday. But I’m not sure it’s time has come yet. They would definitely need to move up in their athletic presence and likely would need to agree to invest in the infrastructure for collaboration.

                                I have a feeling the big ten would love to see them make the jump. JHU pulls in something like $2-3 billion in research a year. That’s more than any other school in the conference. And it’s not close. The only schools that really fit the profile of full member candidates are Texas, UNC, Duke, Pittsburgh, Georgia Tech. And most of those aren’t perfect fits either. There are some west coast schools as well, but the big ten hasn’t annexed west of the Rockies. Yet.
                                Code:
                                As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                                College Hockey 6       College Football 0
                                BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                                Originally posted by SanTropez
                                May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                                Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                                I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                                Originally posted by Kepler
                                When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                                He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

                                Comment

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