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POTUS 45.31: "The Caravan is Coming.""The Caravan is Coming."

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  • Re: POTUS 45.31: "The Caravan is Coming.""The Caravan is Coming."

    Originally posted by WeAreNDHockey View Post
    No your attorney does not have to drop you as a client. When you plead "not guilty" you are not saying "I did not do the exact thing I have been legally and properly charged with." That's why perjury charges don't get added on just because a defendant pleads "not guilty." What you are actually saying is "I am not admitting to anything and the state must prove to a jury (or judge) beyond reasonable doubt that I have committed a crime. You still have the right to a defense, guilty or otherwise.
    OK, that's clear and thank you.

    But are you saying a lawyer can knowingly defend a client who is lying? That doesn't sound very "officer of the court"ish.

    Let's say we go to trial and you put me on the stand and say "did you kill that guy?" and I say, "I cannot tell a lie. No!" In that moment you know I either lied to you before or I'm lying to you (and the jury, and the judge) now. Are you under any obligations?
    Cornell University
    National Champion 1967, 1970
    ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
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    • Re: POTUS 45.31: "The Caravan is Coming.""The Caravan is Coming."

      Originally posted by Kepler View Post
      Why am I not consoled? This feels like a situation where the cops get a warrant and break down my neighbor's door to get his drugs. While there, they find my drugs, for which they not only did not have a warrant but any inkling. But now I'm screwed too.
      LOL. You shouldn't of had your drugs on his property.
      **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

      Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
      Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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      • Re: POTUS 45.31: "The Caravan is Coming.""The Caravan is Coming."

        Originally posted by Kepler View Post
        Why am I not consoled? This feels like a situation where the cops get a warrant and break down my neighbor's door to get his drugs. While there, they find my drugs, for which they not only did not have a warrant but any inkling. But now I'm screwed too.
        There is no neighbor to neighbor privilege Kep. You need to keep your drugs in your house. If the cops are legally executing a warrant and they uncover evidence of another crime in the process, they don't have to look the other way.

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        • Re: POTUS 45.31: "The Caravan is Coming.""The Caravan is Coming."

          Originally posted by Kepler View Post
          OK, that's clear and thank you.

          But are you saying a lawyer can knowingly defend a client who is lying? That doesn't sound very "officer of the cort"ish.
          A lawyer can knowingly defend a client who is guilty, but they cannot knowingly let or advise that the client lie, either on the stand or if that client chooses to speak with law enforcement while not under oath. They cannot put them on the stand and knowingly accept an answer they know to be untrue.

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          • Re: POTUS 45.31: "The Caravan is Coming.""The Caravan is Coming."

            They also raided his hotel room..
            Last edited by bronconick; 04-09-2018, 03:55 PM.
            "I went over the facts in my head, and admired how much uglier the situation had just become. Over the years I've learned that ignorance is more than just bliss. It's freaking orgasmic ecstasy".- Harry Dresden, Blood Rites


            Western Michigan Bronco Hockey- 2012 Mason Cup Champions

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            • Re: POTUS 45.31: "The Caravan is Coming.""The Caravan is Coming."

              Originally posted by WeAreNDHockey View Post
              There is no neighbor to neighbor privilege Kep. You need to keep your drugs in your house. If the cops are legally executing a warrant and they uncover evidence of another crime in the process, they don't have to look the other way.
              Yes, I get that, it was a (poor) analogy. Let me try again.

              Dump and I have the same lawyer, "Obvious Criminal, Esq," (hereafter "OC").

              Dump and OC are engaging in several criminal practices. There is an FBI investigation of them.

              I am under another completely independent FBI investigation for actions of which OC is completely innocent, but he does have many of my private files pertaining to the subject matter.

              The FBI has no warrant for me. So they get a warrant for OC's criminality with Dump, kick the door in, and glad bag OC's whole office.

              So now the FBI has my files, and they have an investigation of me, but they had no right to grab my files without a warrant. Are my rights really going to be respected in that case, or will they go through all my files and then just happen to ask for a warrant for my one smoking gun document they would never have known about had they not raided for Dump?
              Last edited by Kepler; 04-09-2018, 03:55 PM.
              Cornell University
              National Champion 1967, 1970
              ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
              Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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              • Re: POTUS 45.31: "The Caravan is Coming.""The Caravan is Coming."

                Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                LOL. You shouldn't of had your drugs on his property.
                Yeah, I gotta get better neighbors. Stupid dirt bag gets himself raided...
                Cornell University
                National Champion 1967, 1970
                ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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                • Re: POTUS 45.31: "The Caravan is Coming.""The Caravan is Coming."

                  Originally posted by WeAreNDHockey View Post
                  They cannot put them on the stand and knowingly accept an answer they know to be untrue.
                  What if I lie on the cross and you know it but you didn't ask the question?
                  Cornell University
                  National Champion 1967, 1970
                  ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                  Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

                  Comment


                  • Re: POTUS 45.31: "The Caravan is Coming.""The Caravan is Coming."

                    Originally posted by bronconick View Post
                    They also raided his hotel room..
                    Even better. Any attorney who pays hush money to a porn star to protect a sex criminal deserves everything he gets.
                    **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                    Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                    Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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                    • Re: POTUS 45.31: "The Caravan is Coming.""The Caravan is Coming."

                      Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                      Which is why they needed a warrant. But Mafia lawyers can't hide their clients' criminal evidence.

                      Maybe next time don't nominate and elect an actual criminal to the US Presidency? Just a thought.

                      It is kinda cool, though, hearing the right declare their support for due process and the rights of the accused for the first time in, well, ever. So that's healthy anyway.
                      First, when have I ever suggested that accused are not entitled to due process? I'm curious.

                      Second, my post was not intended to be limited to Cohen's case. Scooby came when it was announced the Cohen's offices had been raided and his files seized. It's pretty obvious why Scoob reacted that way.

                      My point is that I don't think it's necessarily a day to be excited when the government starts raiding attorneys offices and seizing confidential communication. As you and others have noted, yes there may be some evidence that this lawyer was engaged in illegal activities in which case those materials are arguably available for seizure by the feds. On the other hand, there is a pretty good chance that other stuff is going to get swept up in that seizure.

                      All I'm saying is that people like Scoobs should be careful what they wish for. There is a chance that next time it's be the Feds knocking down the door of the lawyer for someone you support.
                      That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

                      Comment


                      • Re: POTUS 45.31: "The Caravan is Coming.""The Caravan is Coming."

                        Someone convinced a judge to sign off on a warrant for the personal lawyer of the sitting President of the United States.

                        I imagine you must need pretty much a conviction for that evidence to get that
                        "I went over the facts in my head, and admired how much uglier the situation had just become. Over the years I've learned that ignorance is more than just bliss. It's freaking orgasmic ecstasy".- Harry Dresden, Blood Rites


                        Western Michigan Bronco Hockey- 2012 Mason Cup Champions

                        Comment


                        • Re: POTUS 45.31: "The Caravan is Coming.""The Caravan is Coming."

                          Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
                          First, when have I ever suggested that accused are not entitled to due process? I'm curious.

                          Second, my post was not intended to be limited to Cohen's case. Scooby came when it was announced the Cohen's offices had been raided and his files seized. It's pretty obvious why Scoob reacted that way.

                          My point is that I don't think it's necessarily a day to be excited when the government starts raiding attorneys offices and seizing confidential communication. As you and others have noted, yes there may be some evidence that this lawyer was engaged in illegal activities in which case those materials are arguably available for seizure by the feds. On the other hand, there is a pretty good chance that other stuff is going to get swept up in that seizure.

                          All I'm saying is that people like Scoobs should be careful what they wish for. There is a chance that next time it's be the Feds knocking down the door of the lawyer for someone you support.
                          I believe in our justice system. You don't?
                          **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                          Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                          Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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                          • Re: POTUS 45.31: "The Caravan is Coming.""The Caravan is Coming."

                            Originally posted by bronconick View Post
                            Someone convinced a judge to sign off on a warrant for the personal lawyer of the sitting President of the United States.

                            I imagine you must need pretty much a conviction for that evidence to get that
                            So, you're asking CAFE to accept that there is no chance a judge might be inclined to make what others might look at as a political decision?
                            That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

                            Comment


                            • Re: POTUS 45.31: "The Caravan is Coming.""The Caravan is Coming."

                              Originally posted by bronconick View Post
                              Someone convinced a judge to sign off on a warrant for the personal lawyer of the sitting President of the United States.

                              I imagine you must need pretty much a conviction for that evidence to get that
                              Probably a conservative judge too considering all the Obama nominees that were blocked and all the judges Turtle Boy has plowed through. It's Turtle Boy's proudest achievement.
                              **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                              Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                              Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

                              Comment


                              • Re: POTUS 45.31: "The Caravan is Coming.""The Caravan is Coming."

                                Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
                                So, you're asking CAFE to accept that there is no chance a judge might be inclined to make what others might look at as a political decision?
                                That Judge would be breaking his or her oath if he/she did that. I seriously doubt it.
                                **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                                Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                                Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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