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UAH Hockey 2011-12: Will Someone Break the Conference Logjam? Thanks.

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  • Re: UAH Hockey 2011-12: Will Someone Break the Conference Logjam? Thanks.

    Originally posted by RIT Winters View Post
    We can offer you a nice warm seat.
    Really? I just don't see it happening. I want to expand on something I wrote in the nWCHA thread; apologies if you've already read this in short form:

    Here are the number of times that an Atlantic Hockey team has played in Huntsville since UAH became a Division I team for the second time. I will omit games played by Robert Morris, Niagara, Air Force, and Army during the time they were in College Hockey America with UAH so as to not skew the results; 1998-99 games will be listed for completion. Okay? Okay!

    Air Force# 2011-12
    American International
    Army$ 1999-00
    Bentley 1998-99 2001-02
    Canisius 2000-01 in the SCI Holiday Shootout
    Connecticut 2003-04
    Holy Cross 2004-05
    Mercyhurst 1999-00 2011-12
    Niagara% 1998-99
    RIT* 2005-06
    Robert Morris% 2010-11
    Sacred Heart 2001-02

    # part of CHA until 2005-06; man, it's been a while!
    $ played as part of the future CHA in 1998-99 before jumping to the MAAC, leaving Air Force high and dry for seven seasons
    % part of CHA until 2009-10
    * joined D-I 2005-06

    People, that's one schools who've never come here (AIC), nine schools who've come here just once---counting Niagara playing us as an independent/future conference mate, and counting Army returning a home-and-home set up when we thought they'd be in the CHA as well---in the fourteen seasons of UAH D-I round two, and two who have come twice. Also, note that RMU, AFA, and MC were the last three teams to come to Huntsville since 2005-06, when we were helping out RIT as has been noted. The last obvious fly date before Air Force this year was HC eight seasons ago.

    People have asked me if Atlantic Hockey is an option if the nWCHA tells us no. I say that it's a ****ed unlikely option. As I understand it, we were politely told no when we were searching for a new home, to say nothing of the super-conference option with Atlantic Hockey that saw MC and CC maybe leaving Atlantic Hockey to come to the CHA with the promise of a return if the CHA Really Did Fall Apart Like It Always Threatened to Do, and they were told no. I have to wonder if Air Force has a travel deal with Atlantic Hockey to make it palatable for them to go there.

    If Atlantic Hockey schools were interested in coming to Huntsville, they'd have come by now. They're not coming.

    Yes, I know that AH plays an insular schedule that leaves them with a limited number of non-conference dates, and I know that a Huntsville trip is expensive if you're flying.

    Don't expect Atlantic Hockey to come riding on a white horse. It really is nWCHA or bust in my mind, and I don't think "the good of college hockey" means squat. If it did, would NCHC exist, and would Notre Dame have split for Hockey East? No. Schools are [rightly] looking out for their own interests. Now, do the nWCHA schools---schools who have to feel snubbed by everything that's happened in the last 14 months---perhaps consider things past their own enlightened self-interest? I would hope that they would. I think that's the only way we get into the nWCHA.

    I hope that this settles the matter of Atlantic Hockey picking up UAH.

    [Edited: I screwed up and forgot that Air Force came here this year. I have amended the post appropriately. Sorry, Zoomies. I won't do it again.]

    GFM
    Last edited by gfmorris; 04-02-2012, 09:52 PM.
    Geof F. Morris
    UAH BSE MAE 2002
    UAHHockey.com

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    • Re: UAH Hockey 2011-12: Will Someone Break the Conference Logjam? Thanks.

      Originally posted by ExileOnDaytonStreet View Post
      To me, all this adds up to UAH having just as good a shot at landing a home if they start making phone calls (LOTS of phone calls) to any and all colleges within a 500 mile radius that might have a rink nearby campus and the slightest inkling of a shot to maybe want to play. Start with Kennessaw State and hope for the best.
      I don't think that we can hold out until five D-I schools get the infrastructure up to play varsity hockey. Most of the schools around here that have the means [SEC schools] don't have the rink opportunity, much less the motive. Hell, if five SEC schools went varsity, I don't think UAH would be the sixth school to be added. Back when our interim President hacked us to future varsity status, the SECHC told us that they couldn't accommodate us. I wouldn't think it any different if Auburn, Alabama, Tennessee, Georgia, and Mississippi State---in my mind, the five schools most likely to play varsity hockey in some bizarre scenario where the Pagan Hockey Gods decide to save UAH if the nWCHA says no---suddenly showed up as varsity. Also, of those schools, only TN and UGA have rinks anywhere close to campus.

      The only way UAH makes it as an independent past another year or two is if I win the next Mega Millions/Powerball and fund the program. Don't think I haven't thought about it.

      GFM <-- thinks the chances of him winning the lottery are better than any five Southern schools going to varsity hockey any time this decade.
      Geof F. Morris
      UAH BSE MAE 2002
      UAHHockey.com

      Comment


      • Re: UAH Hockey 2011-12: Will Someone Break the Conference Logjam? Thanks.

        Less everyone think me defeatist, I still have a whole lot of hope for getting into the WCHA. I have tempered my expectations because the CCHA and Portera have taught me to do so.

        GFM
        Geof F. Morris
        UAH BSE MAE 2002
        UAHHockey.com

        Comment


        • Re: UAH Hockey 2011-12: Will Someone Break the Conference Logjam? Thanks.

          Originally posted by gfmorris View Post
          Less everyone think me defeatist, I still have a whole lot of hope for getting into the WCHA. I have tempered my expectations because the CCHA and Portera have taught me to do so.

          GFM
          There's a big difference between being a defeatist and a realist.
          "The use of common sense and logic will not be tolerated and may result in fine and/or suspension."- Western Professional Hockey League By-laws. 1999-2000.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by gfmorris View Post
            GFM <-- thinks the chances of him winning the lottery are better than any five Southern schools going to varsity hockey any time this decade.
            That's actually kind of my point. I don't like your nWCHA odds much better right now.

            I had thought your best bet was a breakaway AHA cluster trying to link up with Ferris and Bowling Green before they opted for the nWCHA.
            If you want to be a BADGER, just come along with me

            BRING BACK PAT RICHTER!!!


            At his graduation ceremony from the U of Minnesota, my cousin got a keychain. When asked what UW gave her for graduation, my sister said, "A degree from a University that matters."

            Canned music is a pathetic waste of your time.

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            • Re: UAH Hockey 2011-12: Will Someone Break the Conference Logjam? Thanks.

              Originally posted by ExileOnDaytonStreet View Post
              I had thought your best bet was a breakaway AHA cluster trying to link up with Ferris and Bowling Green before they opted for the nWCHA.
              That was my thought as well. I think if UBuffalo had actually come out and announced they were starting a program at the time, this conference would be a reality. I still have some slim hopes of seeing this conference but as more time passes my feeling is it wont happen.

              Comment


              • Re: UAH Hockey 2011-12: Will Someone Break the Conference Logjam? Thanks.

                Originally posted by gfmorris View Post
                Here are the number of times that an Atlantic Hockey team has played in Huntsville since UAH became a Division I team for the second time.
                I don't see how that's a relevant comparison. If we want a twelfth member (and I'll believe Navy when I see it) why wouldn't we pursue UAH? You'll be a lot more appealing when you're in a conference; no one likes to play an independent for PWR reasons.


                Powers &8^]

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                • Re: UAH Hockey 2011-12: Will Someone Break the Conference Logjam? Thanks.

                  Originally posted by LtPowers View Post
                  I don't see how that's a relevant comparison. If we want a twelfth member (and I'll believe Navy when I see it) why wouldn't we pursue UAH? You'll be a lot more appealing when you're in a conference; no one likes to play an independent for PWR reasons.
                  But why would a fly date be appealing to more than half of the member schools? From what I understand from talking to Chris Lerch, Air Force does not subsidize travel. Would that extend to UAH? Then, hell yes we think it's a good idea. But given that 1) AHA teams don't fly here, even when we have been good PWR comparisons, and 2) we were previously told no, then why do we get a yes now? The CCHA proved in 2009 that teams won't always fill holes that are left open by conference shakeups.

                  The WCHA proposition is, by my estimate, 50-50. I can't say more than that.

                  This is quite the cruel game of musical chairs. People keep throwing a milk crate underneath us and moving the needle back on the record, but either we find another chair and move into the CD age or we go away. People say that it's up to UAH to show a commitment to the sport, and I will grant you that we have to do that. But we have no guarantee that there is some magical amount of support that guarantees that even the most intractable opponents will suddenly say, "You know what? You're right. They really want this sport. TO UNANIMOUS VOTES!" I don't think that a unanimous vote will be had either way, to tell the truth; it will probably be couched in acclimation as the CCH vote was.

                  GFM <-- still has high hopes for a WCHA bid and to get back to talking about recruits and why Kyle Lysaght needs to cut his **** hair.
                  Geof F. Morris
                  UAH BSE MAE 2002
                  UAHHockey.com

                  Comment


                  • Re: UAH Hockey 2011-12: Will Someone Break the Conference Logjam? Thanks.

                    Originally posted by gfmorris View Post
                    But why would a fly date be appealing to more than half of the member schools? From what I understand from talking to Chris Lerch, Air Force does not subsidize travel. Would that extend to UAH? Then, hell yes we think it's a good idea. But given that 1) AHA teams don't fly here, even when we have been good PWR comparisons, and 2) we were previously told no, then why do we get a yes now? The CCHA proved in 2009 that teams won't always fill holes that are left open by conference shakeups.

                    The WCHA proposition is, by my estimate, 50-50. I can't say more than that.

                    This is quite the cruel game of musical chairs. People keep throwing a milk crate underneath us and moving the needle back on the record, but either we find another chair and move into the CD age or we go away. People say that it's up to UAH to show a commitment to the sport, and I will grant you that we have to do that. But we have no guarantee that there is some magical amount of support that guarantees that even the most intractable opponents will suddenly say, "You know what? You're right. They really want this sport. TO UNANIMOUS VOTES!" I don't think that a unanimous vote will be had either way, to tell the truth; it will probably be couched in acclimation as the CCH vote was.

                    GFM <-- still has high hopes for a WCHA bid and to get back to talking about recruits and why Kyle Lysaght needs to cut his **** hair.
                    I'm at the point where I just want to know the WCHA's summer calendar of meeting fun. Just tell me which specific days I should get my hopes up.

                    So why does Kyle Lysaght need to cut his hair?
                    Michael Napier - UAH '97
                    uahhockey.com

                    UAH Chargers Hockey
                    U.S. National Club Champions - 1982, 1983, 1984
                    NCAA Division II National Champions - 1996, 1998
                    CHA Regular Season Champions - 2001, 2003
                    CHA Tournament Champions - 2007, 2010

                    Comment


                    • Re: UAH Hockey 2011-12: Will Someone Break the Conference Logjam? Thanks.

                      Originally posted by UAHStatman View Post
                      So why does Kyle Lysaght need to cut his hair?
                      It's out of control, much like Justin Cseter's was before he cut it after last season. Of course, if 27 showed up on my doorstep with a crew cut, I don't think that I'd recognize him. The first time I saw Brice with short hair, I didn't place him for a second.

                      GFM
                      Geof F. Morris
                      UAH BSE MAE 2002
                      UAHHockey.com

                      Comment


                      • Re: UAH Hockey 2011-12: Will Someone Break the Conference Logjam? Thanks.

                        Originally posted by gfmorris View Post
                        But why would a fly date be appealing to more than half of the member schools? From what I understand from talking to Chris Lerch, Air Force does not subsidize travel. Would that extend to UAH? Then, hell yes we think it's a good idea. But given that 1) AHA teams don't fly here, even when we have been good PWR comparisons, and 2) we were previously told no, then why do we get a yes now? The CCHA proved in 2009 that teams won't always fill holes that are left open by conference shakeups.

                        The WCHA proposition is, by my estimate, 50-50. I can't say more than that.

                        This is quite the cruel game of musical chairs. People keep throwing a milk crate underneath us and moving the needle back on the record, but either we find another chair and move into the CD age or we go away. People say that it's up to UAH to show a commitment to the sport, and I will grant you that we have to do that. But we have no guarantee that there is some magical amount of support that guarantees that even the most intractable opponents will suddenly say, "You know what? You're right. They really want this sport. TO UNANIMOUS VOTES!" I don't think that a unanimous vote will be had either way, to tell the truth; it will probably be couched in acclimation as the CCH vote was.

                        GFM <-- still has high hopes for a WCHA bid and to get back to talking about recruits and why Kyle Lysaght needs to cut his **** hair.
                        One thing to remember about Air Force is that, when it joined the AHA, it was required to play a very IMBA schedule in terms of home/away games.

                        Comment


                        • Re: UAH Hockey 2011-12: Will Someone Break the Conference Logjam? Thanks.

                          Originally posted by gfmorris View Post
                          It's out of control, much like Justin Cseter's was before he cut it after last season. Of course, if 27 showed up on my doorstep with a crew cut, I don't think that I'd recognize him. The first time I saw Brice with short hair, I didn't place him for a second.

                          GFM
                          That's nothing. Bring back the northern mullets!

                          Comment


                          • Re: UAH Hockey 2011-12: Will Someone Break the Conference Logjam? Thanks.

                            Originally posted by gfmorris View Post
                            But given that 1) AHA teams don't fly here, even when we have been good PWR comparisons, and 2) we were previously told no, then why do we get a yes now? The CCHA proved in 2009 that teams won't always fill holes that are left open by conference shakeups.
                            1) is fixed by actually joining the conference; 2) is fixed by virtue of the addition moving the league to an even number of teams rather than odd. I realize you're pessimistic after prior disappointments, but I don't think it's warranted here.


                            Powers &8^]

                            Comment


                            • Re: UAH Hockey 2011-12: Will Someone Break the Conference Logjam? Thanks.

                              Hockey will not a net money maker under most scenarios for any of the nWCHA programs. The old WCHA shared league revenues between the big arena programs and small arena programs. It also split the proceeds from the Final Five tourney. This made hockey a break even or slightly profitable sport for the small schools, and a money maker for the big schools. With the big schools gone, the nWCHA will now be in the same boat as most small college sports conferences.....the team will be a cost center instead of a profit center for member schools. The nWCHA schools are willing to kick in funds for their hockey programs going forward because they provide important publicity. However, any scenario that brings in another air travel school means that all the league schools will simply have to kick in more funds. That's the headwind UAH is facing. Once the nWCHA gets a handle on its revised financial picture, it will be up to the member schools to decide if they can afford to admit another air travel school. When you figure out the per school cost of flying most of the league teams to Hunstville once a year, it's probably not really a deal breaker for most member schools. It probably raises program costs by 5-10% depending on the school's hockey budget. To me, that suggests that UAH might get 'yes' votes from many nWCHA programs. However, I have to wonder if the UAH administration will be willing to pay the nWCHA league fees and endure the same expense as the other nWCHA programs now that the nWCHA's financial dynamics have changed.

                              Comment


                              • Re: UAH Hockey 2011-12: Will Someone Break the Conference Logjam? Thanks.

                                Originally posted by UpNorthHockey View Post
                                Hockey will not a net money maker under most scenarios for any of the nWCHA programs. The old WCHA shared league revenues between the big arena programs and small arena programs. It also split the proceeds from the Final Five tourney. This made hockey a break even or slightly profitable sport for the small schools, and a money maker for the big schools. With the big schools gone, the nWCHA will now be in the same boat as most small college sports conferences.....the team will be a cost center instead of a profit center for member schools.
                                BSU was a money maker in the CHA - no reason to think that they won't be one in the nWCHA.
                                Current NCAA D-I rinks I've been to:

                                AHA:
                                B1G: UMich, MSU, UMinn, Notre Dame, OSU, UWisc
                                CCHA: BSU, BG, FSU, LSSU, MSU, MTU, NMU
                                ECAC:
                                HEA: UMass
                                NCHC: Miami, UMD, UND, SCSU, WMU
                                Independant: ASU


                                Inactive: UAH, ASU, BSU, UMD, UND, NMU, Notre Dame

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