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The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

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  • #31
    Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

    Originally posted by burgie12 View Post
    There are three, actually.

    Clarkson, 1956, 23-0-0
    Iona, 1967, 16-0-0
    Cornell, 1970, 29-0-0

    Only one won the national championship. I, like Interested, would not be surprised to find them at #1 when this is all said and done.

    NCAA Division I Record Book (pdf) (pages 13 and 17)

    FS23, I'm curious where Iona's 1967 team would rank in your list of 250. It may difficult to compile enough relevant information.
    If you have their schedule along with scores of games I could pop it in and tell you.
    North Dakota
    National Champions: 1959, 1963, 1980, 1982, 1987, 1997, 2000, 2016

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    • #32
      Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

      I just checked the 1968 NCAA Ice Hockey Guide and Iona isn't listed. I don't see them on anyone else's schedule either. They must have been playing a club schedule.

      Edit: The first year they show up is 1972 playing a collection of NYC schools, eastern JVs, and community colleges.
      Last edited by Ralph Baer; 10-14-2011, 04:04 PM.
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      • #33
        Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

        Originally posted by Fighting Sioux 23 View Post
        Keep in mind that winning percentage isn't everything. Who you play has a lot to do with it as well. For example, beating a tournament team by 1 is better than beating a nobody by 6.
        Do you mean beating a tournament team in your out-of-conference schedule (or in conference, I suppose....)?

        Otherwise I'm guessing you have to make some adjustments based on the number of teams who played in the tournament to equalize for the chaning number of tournament games over time.

        I can appreciate how tricky this is, for a person can say being undefeated means you beat everyone you played, while another could argue that 29-0 should not be as impressive as 35-1.....how do you "mark down" the first team relative to the second when the number of teams they are allowed to schedule is beyond their control?
        "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

        "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

        "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

        "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

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        • #34
          Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

          Originally posted by Ralph Baer View Post
          I just checked the 1968 NCAA Ice Hockey Guide and Iona isn't listed. I don't see them on anyone else's schedule either. They must have been playing a club schedule.

          Edit: The first year they show up is 1972 playing a collection of NYC schools, eastern JVs, and community colleges.
          The PDF does say that all pre-1995-96 data was all submitted by individual teams and could include exhibitions / games against Canadian teams. I guess they forgot to also say club team games, too.
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          • #35
            Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

            Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
            Do you mean beating a tournament team in your out-of-conference schedule (or in conference, I suppose....)?
            Beating a tournament team at all really. It doesn't matter if it is out-of-conference, in-conference, or even in the NCAA Tournament. Obviously, if there were several tournament teams in your conference, it lends credence that you played in a really difficult conference that year (also, with the advent of the Pairwise, it generally shows that your conference was very good out of conference as well).

            Originally posted by FreshFish
            Otherwise I'm guessing you have to make some adjustments based on the number of teams who played in the tournament to equalize for the chaning number of tournament games over time.
            This is where the "tweak" came in. It wasn't fair to a team from an era where only four teams made the tournament, compared to today where sixteen make it.

            Originally posted by FreshFish
            I can appreciate how tricky this is, for a person can say being undefeated means you beat everyone you played, while another could argue that 29-0 should not be as impressive as 35-1.....how do you "mark down" the first team relative to the second when the number of teams they are allowed to schedule is beyond their control?
            It is very tricky. 29-0 is impressive, as is 35-1. If the 29-0 team feasted on cupcakes the entire year, and didn't play a tournament team until the NCAA Tournament and managed to win both, is that better than a team that went 35-1, went 14-1 against tournament teams and won it all? Does it make a difference if the 29-0 team barely wins their big games while the 35-1 squad blew everyone out? I tried to answer those questions in my formula. It's basically the Boise State problem that college football is facing. There are very good arguments either way.
            North Dakota
            National Champions: 1959, 1963, 1980, 1982, 1987, 1997, 2000, 2016

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            • #36
              Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

              Originally posted by Fighting Sioux 23 View Post
              Beating a tournament team at all really. It doesn't matter if it is out-of-conference, in-conference, or even in the NCAA Tournament. Obviously, if there were several tournament teams in your conference, it lends credence that you played in a really difficult conference that year (also, with the advent of the Pairwise, it generally shows that your conference was very good out of conference as well).

              This is where the "tweak" came in. It wasn't fair to a team from an era where only four teams made the tournament, compared to today where sixteen make it.

              It is very tricky. 29-0 is impressive, as is 35-1. If the 29-0 team feasted on cupcakes the entire year, and didn't play a tournament team until the NCAA Tournament and managed to win both, is that better than a team that went 35-1, went 14-1 against tournament teams and won it all? Does it make a difference if the 29-0 team barely wins their big games while the 35-1 squad blew everyone out? I tried to answer those questions in my formula. It's basically the Boise State problem that college football is facing. There are very good arguments either way.
              Well thank you very much for thinking this through so clearly and putting in all the work compiling and crunching the data.

              It looks like that 35-2-1 team that I want to see do really well in your rankings will actually do better than I had at first expected, since they went 6-0-1 against tournament teams that year (in a year in which 8 teams made the tournament; it looks like the quarterfinals were best cumulative score over two games, since they advanced to the semi-finals with a win and a tie, so that they were 3-0-1 in the tournament itself). I had pegged them initially as between 6 and 15 inclusive, now I may have to bump them up a few spots. I think the All - American points other programs will get will wind up costing this team a few fractional points at the end, so that they won't be as high as their record alone might indicate relative to other teams. As you've said, it will be fun to see how it all unfolds.

              Once all said and done, might you be able to post the list along with the scores? I think it might be fun [for me to] to then adjust it so that anyone within a certain range is tied, so that the adjusted result looks more like golf tournament finishes as I noted in an earlier post (1,2,3,3,3,6,6,8,8,8,8,11 etc).

              I wish I new more about the history to be able to guess more about the order. It is interesting to notice how the game has evolved over time. I still get a chuckle when I think about a motivational ploy used in Colorado Springs, for example...
              Last edited by FreshFish; 10-14-2011, 08:39 PM.
              "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

              "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

              "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

              "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

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              • #37
                Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

                You definitely have to be very careful in the treatment of record vs. tournament teams. Until 1976, only 2 eastern and 2 western teams made the tournament, and there was very little east-west crossover for regular season games. So out of all the teams in your region, there would be only one other tournament team that you would even have a chance to play. Throw in the fact that the ECAC was a 17-team league with a massively unbalanced schedule (and I assume the West was similar prior to the formation of the CCHA in 1973), and it's not too surprising that there would be very, very few meetings between tournament teams until the actual tournament.
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                • #38
                  Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

                  Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
                  You definitely have to be very careful in the treatment of record vs. tournament teams. Until 1976, only 2 eastern and 2 western teams made the tournament, and there was very little east-west crossover for regular season games. So out of all the teams in your region, there would be only one other tournament team that you would even have a chance to play. Throw in the fact that the ECAC was a 17-team league with a massively unbalanced schedule (and I assume the West was similar prior to the formation of the CCHA in 1973), and it's not too surprising that there would be very, very few meetings between tournament teams until the actual tournament.
                  Exactly. This was somewhat of a flaw in the first ranking that I did, and that is why I initially ranked teams within their "era". I wanted to have just one list this time, and that's why I came up with a tweak to the formula to put teams from the 50's, 60's and 70's (generalization) on par with teams from the last 30 years.
                  North Dakota
                  National Champions: 1959, 1963, 1980, 1982, 1987, 1997, 2000, 2016

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                  • #39
                    Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

                    So which BU team will be 23??

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                    • #40
                      Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

                      Originally posted by Bigus Paulus View Post
                      So which BU team will be 23??
                      This.
                      **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                      Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                      Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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                      • #41
                        Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

                        Originally posted by Bigus Paulus View Post
                        So which BU team will be 23??


                        I've submitted everything for the #23 team, but I haven't heard when it will be posted online. I would imagine that it would be up relatively soon.

                        FWIW, it is not a BU team.
                        North Dakota
                        National Champions: 1959, 1963, 1980, 1982, 1987, 1997, 2000, 2016

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                        • #42
                          Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

                          Well, it appears that College Hockey Weekly has finally put up #23 in the Top 25 Greatest Teams.

                          It's a shocker...it's not a BU team

                          Here's the link.

                          http://www.collegehockeyweekly.com/Greatest-Teams.html
                          North Dakota
                          National Champions: 1959, 1963, 1980, 1982, 1987, 1997, 2000, 2016

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                          • #43
                            Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

                            Looks like #22 is up on the site now, you can use the same link from my previous post to get to the main screen.

                            I talked with the editors, and the plan is to stretch this out for a bit. They said by the time we get to the top 10 they will probably only do about 1/week. I have suggested that they do the top 5 all at once, but we'll see what happens. Also, the web guy is looking at putting together a slideshow when it is finished, but no word on if that's a for sure thing right now.

                            Anyway, enjoy #22!
                            North Dakota
                            National Champions: 1959, 1963, 1980, 1982, 1987, 1997, 2000, 2016

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                            • #44
                              Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

                              Originally posted by Fighting Sioux 23 View Post
                              I talked with the editors, and the plan is to stretch this out for a bit. They said by the time we get to the top 10 they will probably only do about 1/week.
                              So much for living in a society of instant gratification, eh?

                              Seriously, thank you so much for compiling the list.

                              PS Have you already written and submitted all the narratives? i for one would also like to see the score that resulted from your formula posted for each team.
                              "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

                              "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

                              "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

                              "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

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                              • #45
                                Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

                                Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
                                So much for living in a society of instant gratification, eh?

                                Seriously, thank you so much for compiling the list.

                                PS Have you already written and submitted all the narratives? i for one would also like to see the score that resulted from your formula posted for each team.
                                Yeah, I argued that releasing them faster would generate more "buzz" about the site. They didn't see it that way though.

                                As for the scores for each team, I can post the scores in here for the teams that have been released. Give me a bit and I'll post the scores for teams #23-25.
                                North Dakota
                                National Champions: 1959, 1963, 1980, 1982, 1987, 1997, 2000, 2016

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