The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

no matter how you calculate things, I think its rather silly to consider any team that didn't win the national championship one of the top 25 teams all time.

[JF_Gophers]

Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

no matter how you calculate things, I think its rather silly to consider any team that didn't win the national championship one of the top 25 teams all time.

I wouldn't go that far. Since the NCAA tournament is 1-and-done, teams are going to lose when they shouldn't. It doesn't mean they weren't a great team.

I would agree that the vast majority should be the winners.

[solovsfett]

Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

I wouldn't go that far. Since the NCAA tournament is 1-and-done, teams are going to lose when they shouldn't. It doesn't mean they weren't a great team.

I would agree that the vast majority should be the winners.

very true. I count the 1992, 1993 UW teams as amongst the most talented they EVER had but they couldn't play together as a team in the end and it did em in. Also the Michigan team that went down to BU at the Bradley Center around 97(?) I think? They had Morrison and Botterill, just an amazingly talented team and somehow lost when all year the hardware was there's for the taking

[Ralph Baer]

Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

I wouldn't go that far. Since the NCAA tournament is 1-and-done, teams are going to lose when they shouldn't. It doesn't mean they weren't a great team.

I would agree that the vast majority should be the winners.

I agree, most should be winners, but there are others that are also deserving. FS23 can control that by how much he counts the championship.

[FreshFish]

Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

29-0 is impressive, as is 35-1. ..... It's basically the Boise State problem that college football is facing. There are very good arguments either way.

If I may borrow an analogy from US professional football, it seems to me more like the question as to which was the greatest ever Super Bowl team, the 1972 Dolphins or the 1985 Bears. People point to the Dolphins 17 - 0 record and say they "have to be" # 1 since they are the only post-merger team ever to post an undefeated season.

The 1985 Bears were probably the most dominant post-merger team ever *, and it took a miracle game by Dan Marino in Miami to beat the Bears that year. They were undefeated in their division and in their conference, and they completely obliterated their playoff opponents.

While I personally would choose the Bears, I cannot argue with those who chose the Dolphins, since we are giving different weight to the same criteria.

Since it's your formula, we'll see how you chose to weight these factors when the top five are announced.


* I myself would give the Bears bonus points for releasing The Super Bowl Shuffle rap video in the middle of the season and then following up the talk with the walk so to speak. It takes a certain combination of swagger, confidence, and ability to say you are going to win it all that early in the season, and then actually do it!

[Happy]

Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

If I may borrow an analogy from US professional football, it seems to me more like the question as to which was the greatest ever Super Bowl team, the 1972 Dolphins or the 1985 Bears. People point to the Dolphins 17 - 0 record and say they "have to be" # 1 since they are the only post-merger team ever to post an undefeated season.

The 1985 Bears were probably the most dominant post-merger team ever *, and it took a miracle game by Dan Marino in Miami to beat the Bears that year. They were undefeated in their division and in their conference, and they completely obliterated their playoff opponents.

While I personally would choose the Bears, I cannot argue with those who chose the Dolphins, since we are giving different weight to the same criteria.

Since it's your formula, we'll see how you chose to weight these factors when the top five are announced.


* I myself would give the Bears bonus points for releasing The Super Bowl Shuffle rap video in the middle of the season and then following up the talk with the walk so to speak. It takes a certain combination of swagger, confidence, and ability to say you are going to win it all that early in the season, and then actually do it!

It's the Bears by a long shot, because the dolphins racked up their undefeated season playing one of the weakest NFL schedules ever.

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

I agree, most should be winners, but there are others that are also deserving. FS23 can control that by how much he counts the championship.

The vast majority of the teams in the top 25 are national champions. I'm sure when we get to some of the non-winners in the list there will be some interesting discussion.

FWIW, I've submitted everything for #19 and #18, but I wouldn't count on anything being posted today. My guess is that #19 will be put up sometime this weekend, and perhaps #18 sometime mid-week. I'm not entirely sure though. When I see that they are up, I'll post the link here.

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

The vast majority of the teams in the top 25 are national champions. I'm sure when we get to some of the non-winners in the list there will be some interesting discussion.

FWIW, I've submitted everything for #19 and #18, but I wouldn't count on anything being posted today. My guess is that #19 will be put up sometime this weekend, and perhaps #18 sometime mid-week. I'm not entirely sure though. When I see that they are up, I'll post the link here.

I have to guess that Michigan Tech has at least one team...1961-62, won RS, LT and NCAAs and only lost 3 times...I kinda doubt 1964-65 or 1974-75 make it since neither won RS or LT. Minnesota/Michigan Tech from 1973-1976 has to be one of the greatest stretches ever.

[JDUBBS1280]

I have to guess that Michigan Tech has at least one team...1961-62, won RS, LT and NCAAs and only lost 3 times...I kinda doubt 1964-65 or 1974-75 make it since neither won RS or LT. Minnesota/Michigan Tech from 1973-1976 has to be one of the greatest stretches ever.

Thing is, arguably Tech's greatest team during that period was their '74 team, and Minnesota beat them in the championship. And arguably Minnesota's best team in that period was their '75 team and Tech returned the favor.

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

Thing is, arguably Tech's greatest team during that period was their '74 team, and Minnesota beat them in the championship. And arguably Minnesota's best team in that period was their '75 team and Tech returned the favor.

I just mean that those 3 seasons were simply crazy with Michigan Tech & Minnesota winning the regular season title, each having a share of the league title (there wasn't a conference tournament), and the regular season runner up winning it all. From my perspective its frustrating that Herb Brooks cost MTU the chance at 2 more titles but it was an amazing run. I still love watching highlights from the 1975 title game:

[JDUBBS1280]

I just mean that those 3 seasons were simply crazy with Michigan Tech & Minnesota winning the regular season title, each having a share of the league title (there wasn't a conference tournament), and the regular season runner up winning it all. From my perspective its frustrating that Herb Brooks cost MTU the chance at 2 more titles but it was an amazing run. I still love watching highlights from the 1975 title game:

Indeed. Minnesota and Tech absolutely dominated college hockey during that stretch.

[vizoroo]

Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

I wouldn't go that far. Since the NCAA tournament is 1-and-done, teams are going to lose when they shouldn't. It doesn't mean they weren't a great team.

I would agree that the vast majority should be the winners.

Two teams that didn't win the championship come to my biased mind. DU's 2001 2002 that was sent to Yost to play Michigan in the regionals even though they were a #1 seed. And the "77-'78 team that wasn't allowed to compete in the NCAA's.** According to du78 that team still was ranked #1 at the end of the season.

**Don't remember the details, but DU would challenge the NCAA decision that players recruited within the rules. at that time, should later be called ineligible.

[FreshFish]

Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

I'm sure when we get to some of the non-winners in the list there will be some interesting discussion.

I hope that "interesting" is indeed the appropriate adjective!

....and since you raised the question yourself, I was actually a bit curious about the 2010 - 2011 Fighting Sioux....I am assuming that your formula resulted in them being ranked so high on the all-time list because of the number of tournament teams that they beat overall during the season.

That did raise a technical question in my mind as to the divisor you might use to equalize for the different number of teams that make the tournament in different eras....16 teams out of 52 or nearly 31% of all teams made the tournament that year....when 8 teams made the tournament (if there were fewer teams then) perhaps 17% of all teams made the tournament. Those teams just did not have the opportunity to play as many tournament teams during the season relative to more recent teams, and it must be tricky to choose the "appropriate" weighting factor to adjust for it (especially if it turns out when all 25 are revealed that the 2010 - 2011 FS have the lowest winning percentage of the top 25.....).

Not a criticism at all, merely a curiosity....

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

I hope that "interesting" is indeed the appropriate adjective!

....and since you raised the question yourself, I was actually a bit curious about the 2010 - 2011 Fighting Sioux....I am assuming that your formula resulted in them being ranked so high on the all-time list because of the number of tournament teams that they beat overall during the season.

That did raise a technical question in my mind as to the divisor you might use to equalize for the different number of teams that make the tournament in different eras....16 teams out of 52 or nearly 31% of all teams made the tournament that year....when 8 teams made the tournament (if there were fewer teams then) perhaps 17% of all teams made the tournament. Those teams just did not have the opportunity to play as many tournament teams during the season relative to more recent teams, and it must be tricky to choose the "appropriate" weighting factor to adjust for it (especially if it turns out when all 25 are revealed that the 2010 - 2011 FS have the lowest winning percentage of the top 25.....).

Not a criticism at all, merely a curiosity....

Beating tournament teams is definitely a part of the formula, and if you win more games against tournament teams, then yes, you will get more points than if you didn't. However, last year's North Dakota squad didn't put up a overwhelming win% against tournament teams (.639).

As to the 52 teams in the NCAA last year, there were 58, so that slightly changes the percentage (from just under 31 to about 27.5%). As to older teams, it is important to note that realistically only a couple dozen teams had a legitimate shot at the NCAA Tournament. So, while only 4 made the tournament, perhaps only 20-24 had a legit chance, so the percentages aren't really that different. The main differences come from games played against tournament teams, and games played overall.

As for winning percentage, this is one of the areas where current teams are at a disadvantage to some of the older teams. Back in the day, it was common for a team or two to win 80-90% of its games. Today, it hardly ever happens. In fact, over the past decade, only a handful of teams have won over 80% of their games. Of the teams I ranked, only four teams since 2000 have won 80% or more of their games. Of those four, only one won the title.

FWIW, the 2010-2011 North Dakota team does not have the lowest winning percentage of teams in the top 25. You have to keep in mind as well that North Dakota dominated a conference that was by far the best in college hockey that year (placing 2 teams in the Frozen Four, the national champion, 4 Regional Finalists, and 5 teams in the Tournament).

[FreshFish]

Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

As to older teams, it is important to note that realistically only a couple dozen teams had a legitimate shot at the NCAA Tournament. So, while only 4 made the tournament, perhaps only 20-24 had a legit chance.

Now I am even more confused....using your numbers, are you saying that in 'the old days' 17% to 20% of the teams back then had a 'legit' chance' to make the tournament?

Now, 27.5% of the teams have a 'legit chance'? (or maybe more....how many of the 58 teams have a 'legit chance'? if it is fewer than 58, then the percentage of teams that have a legit chance goes up, no?)

If more teams now have a 'legit chance' than before, doesn't that mean that teams today have a greater opportunity to earn points under your formula by playing tournament teams during the season than teams from 'the old days'?

Obviously, in an 8-team tournament you never would see one conference placing five teams into it!