RPI Pick to Click - 2011-12

[GRussinko]

RPI: Burgdoerfer
ND: Maday

[FlagDUDE08]

ND: Mike Johnson
RPI stays the same.

[burgie12]

The good: RPI scored a goal
The bad: They still lost

cnor won his second consecutive week. And he didn't even have to be a traitor to do it this time! He also moved himself into a tie for first place with mackek2.

knsmith's failure to post picks this week dropped him / her from 3rd to 10th place.

Anders Lee's hat trick to christen the new building earned him 6 PtC points. Bergin, Malchuk, and Rogic were all worth 2 PtC points for the Engineers. A whopping 5 posters picked Anders Lee, while ehf chose Bergin and FlagDUDE and REDaero both tabbed Malchuk.

This brings up a very important question. Anders Lee came into the game with a 5-3-8 line (good for 13 PtC points). T. J. Tynan came into the game with a 2-7-9 line (good for 11 PtC points). Obviously, the top point producer should be excluded from being chosen. But, should it be the top forward / defenseman in terms of hockey points or PtC points? Please give an answer along with your picks for the week. (No, this will not take effect retroactively.) (And, in the future, this won't usually have an impact, but just for the rare occasions that it does, I want the crowd's opinion. And, I hope it's obvious that the other one will be used as a tiebreaker, just as it is now.)

Results!
7 + 1 points
cnor79

6 points
lugnut92
mackek2
MavHockey14
Ralph Baer
vizoroo

4 points
engineerhockeyfan
FlagDUDE08

2 points
burgie12
GRussinko
hawthr
REDaero91
REDRocket
RKarger
TuteScrooge

[burgie12]

Link back to the title post with details on scoring

RPI welcomes Ken Ralph and the CC Tigers to the unfriendly confines of the HFH. Last week, CC was ranked #4 in the (meaningless) USCHO.com pole. They then failed to get a win this weekend. They couldn't even pull out a tie! For those that are sarcasm-challenged, they didn't play this weekend.

RPI went into South Bend, Indiana and failed to produce on their opportunity to put a damper on Notre Dame's parade. They come back to Troy bruised and broken and with a 1-4-0 record. This pair of games is a return trip for RPI opening last season in Colorado Springs.

You may not choose the following players for this game:
Rensselaer:
F - Joel Malchuk
D - Nick Bailen, Pat Koudys, or Guy Leboeuf

Colorado College:
F - Jaden Schwartz
D - Mike Boivin

Statistics / Rosters:
Rensselaer: Statistics | Roster
Colorado College: Statistics | Roster

[burgie12]

Friday:
RPI - Ryan Haggerty
Kitty cats - Gabe Guentzel

Saturday:
Rensselaer - Mike Bergin
Two Tiggers is twice as better than one - Rylan Schwartz

I think that we should exclude the top-scoring forward / d-man based on real points, not PtC.

[lugnut92]

Friday
RPI ENGINEERS: C.J. LEE like a broken record...
They stole our upset: Gabe Guentzel

Saturday
RPI ENGINEERS: ALEX ANGERS-GOULET because formatting is fun
The Colorado College: William Rapuzzi

I think the banlist should be determined by real points.

[FlagDUDE08]

My picks will be later, but as for my opinion, if you put a different schema up for points, stick to it. Therefore, IMHO, the ban list should be based upon PtC points.

Which brings me to another question: What if a team has a Dryden-esque goalie that gets shutout after shutout after shutout? I know, we wouldn't pick them because we're one of the four schools that actually beat Dryden. But I think you get my point; should the goalie be up against the defense for the ban list? Or is there enough point danger in picking the goaltender that they should always be eligible?

[Ralph Baer]

Friday
RPI Haggerty
CC Rylen Schwartz

Saturday
RPI Schroeder
CC Gabe Guentzel

[REDaero91]

Friday
RPI: Josh Rabbani
CC: Scott Winkler

Saturday:
RPI: Bo Dolan
CC: Rylan Schwartz

I think we should continue to use real points as the ineligibility criterion.

[burgie12]

Which brings me to another question: What if a team has a Dryden-esque goalie that gets shutout after shutout after shutout? I know, we wouldn't pick them because we're one of the four schools that actually beat Dryden. But I think you get my point; should the goalie be up against the defense for the ban list? Or is there enough point danger in picking the goaltender that they should always be eligible?

I am against the goalie being ineligible. In my opinion, the reason that the goal / assist points for the goalie are so high is to try and entice individuals to choose him because his point totals are so variable / dependent on a number of other factors (kinda like a pitcher's W-L record). Besides (and maybe this is more of an ECAC thing), with the large amount of inconsistent goalie rotation that goes on, it's difficult to predict which goalie will be playing which game (especially if it's a Saturday game), which is just another thing that keeps people from picking goalies, hence the big rewards for goals / assists.

[FlagDUDE08]

Friday:
ECAC D-III: Johnny Rockets Rogic
WCHA D-III: Scott Winkler

Saturday:
RPI: Ryan Haggerty
CC: Rylen Schwartz

[RKarger]

Friday:
RPI: Rogic
CC: Schwartz (obviously not the ineligible one)

Saturday:
RPI: Haggerty
CC: Rapuzzi

[FlagDUDE08]

I am against the goalie being ineligible. In my opinion, the reason that the goal / assist points for the goalie are so high is to try and entice individuals to choose him because his point totals are so variable / dependent on a number of other factors (kinda like a pitcher's W-L record). Besides (and maybe this is more of an ECAC thing), with the large amount of inconsistent goalie rotation that goes on, it's difficult to predict which goalie will be playing which game (especially if it's a Saturday game), which is just another thing that keeps people from picking goalies, hence the big rewards for goals / assists.

FWIW, there has only been one goaltender in college hockey history (to the best of my knowledge) that has been credited with a goal (I believe it was an MTU goalie), and none have shot the puck into the opposite net. Obviously Allen York did get an assist his freshman year. Source is Wikipedia (so you know it's true ).

[vizoroo]

Friday
RPI Ryan Haggerty
Tiggies Rylan Schwartz

Saturday
RPI AAG
Tiggies Gabe Guentzel


I think that we should exclude the top-scoring forward / d-man based on real points, not PtC. But then wouldn't Haggerty be ineligible too?

[burgie12]

I think that we should exclude the top-scoring forward / d-man based on real points, not PtC. But then wouldn't Haggerty be ineligible too?

Malchuk has a 2-0-2 line while Higgs and Haggerty have 0-2-2 lines. Whichever method is not used will be used as a tiebreaker, so only teammates with identical lines (like Bailen, Koudys, and Leboeuf each with a 1-0-1 line) will be mutually excluded (which also explains why Bergin with a 0-1-1 line is currently eligible).

[engineerhockeyfan]

Friday:
RPI-Rogic
CC-Dineen
Saturday
RPI-Bergin
CC-Marciano

I believe that the ineligible players should be based on actual points. Goalies should all remain eligible.
JMO, but I don't believe that anyone should be ineligible until ECAC games start. Having five players ineligible because of so many ties at such low numbers is insignificant.

[Ralph Baer]

FWIW, there has only been one goaltender in college hockey history (to the best of my knowledge) that has been credited with a goal (I believe it was an MTU goalie), and none have shot the puck into the opposite net. Obviously Allen York did get an assist his freshman year. Source is Wikipedia (so you know it's true ).

I had to dig this up. On 12/28/1980 in RPI's Holiday Tourney at 17:08 of the third period, Maine goalie Jim Tortorella scored against Vasby, Sweden. The unique part was that Vasby's net was guarded. I think that it has happened several times when the goalie was pulled. I have the vague recollection that there has been another goalie who scored against a guarded net since then. I was standing near the west goal where Tortorella was shooting from, waiting to beat the rush to the snack bar between games.

I note that Vasby did score another goal at 19:14, but Maine still won 14-2.

Edit: the embarrassed goalie was Robert Nyquist.

[burgie12]

I had to dig this up. On 12/28/1980 in RPI's Holiday Tourney at 17:08 of the third period, Maine goalie Jim Tortorella scored against Vasby, Sweden. The unique part was that Vasby's net was guarded. I think that it has happened several times when the goalie was pulled. I have the vague recollection that there has been another goalie who scored against a guarded net since then. I was standing near the west goal where Tortorella was shooting from, waiting to beat the rush to the snack bar between games.

I note that Vasby did score another goal at 19:14, but Maine still won 14-2.

Edit: the embarrassed goalie was Robert Nyquist.

12-2
Do you have a link to the game story / where did you reaffirm your memory? I'm curious and would also like to read it.

[Ralph Baer]

12-2
Do you have a link to the game story / where did you reaffirm your memory? I'm curious and would also like to read it.

I have my game program. Tortorella is an assistant coach for UNH. The incident might have been reported in some stories about him.

You're correct 12-2. Oops.

[burgie12]

I have my game program. Tortorella is an assistant coach for UNH. The incident might have been reported in some stories about him.

You're correct 12-2. Oops.

I didn't find anything in the articles announcing him as a Colby head coach or an assistant for UNH, but I did find some interesting stuff.

Screenshot of Sean's archived USCHO thread "On This Day in College Hockey" Of course, it's more than two years old, so it's dead and gone It also doesn't exist in the Internet Archive Wayback Machine (as far as I could tell), so it really doesn't exist. Also, it doesn't actually say that Tortorella scored a goal, but if you already knew that factoid, then, congratulations, you found proof!



MSU press release after Hobey Baker finalist Chad Alban scores on an empty net that mentions that Tortorella was the first NCAA goalie credited with a goal. (It also says that Alban was the first goalie to actually shoot the puck into the opponent's net.)

Trivia competition that mentions that Tortorella was the first NCAA goalie credited with a goal (Year 4, Week 23, 5-pt question)

On a completely unrelated note, I found a paper (PDF) that simulated the possible strategies of when to pull your goalie while trailing published by a statistics professor at Simon Fraser University and a professor at Université Laval. Like I said, completely unrelated, but it showed up while searching and was an interesting read.