Ginding away- stop putting sand in my oil... Part 4

[Twitch Boy]

Re: Ginding away- stop putting sand in my oil... Part 4

The problem with college is that guidance counselors and parents have crammed "everyone has to go to college if they want to go anywhere in life" down kids' throats for the first eighteen years of their lives. Thus, kids feel their life options after high school are "college" or "van down by the river." They're pressured to just pick a college and major and go because that's just what you *do*. Not sure about college and would rather skip the debt and be happy as a forklift jockey? Try telling that to your parents at 18 and see how long before you're laughed out of the house and become the black sheep of the family.

Everyone's using the excuse against student loans that "they're 18, they were legally able to comprehend and sign the loan papers, they should have known better." No, they shouldn't have. They've been brainwashed by people they trusted into doing something that might not turn out in their best interests before the real world even begins for them. This isn't like they're putting their trust in some scummy bank that sees them as a series of dollar signs; these are their freaking parents they listened to! THAT'S why so many of them are mad.

It used to be a perfectly noble thing to graduate high school and be a blue collar worker (if maybe not the best pay.) Somewhere in the 80's the US got the notion that these positions are shameful. The people who did these jobs had kids, saw the college wave coming, and wanted "better" for them. Also, blue collar jobs got stereotyped as being for slackers, etc.

Article by an X-er where he goes into more detail about this and a lot of other things.

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Ginding away- stop putting sand in my oil... Part 4

I'm firmly on the side of "You took out a loan, you should pay it back". I don't want to hurt any feelings...but seriously are we really at the point where we want to forgive loans for people that make a poor decision? Can't people see how that is going to snowball out of control? If you sign your name on a loan document, you should have every expectation of paying it back. Or if you really don't want to pay it back, join the National Guard, or teach in an urban school, etc. which offer student loan repayment plans. I don't blame it all on the people taking out the loans, as usual some of the blame falls on their parents as well, at least in certain cases.

On a very similar topic...we really need to get rid of the stigma on blue collar jobs/the trades. Right now a high school student is practically made to believe that they'd be a lesser human being if they became a plumber or decided that they wanted to work construction. Seriously, those types of jobs are perfectly respectable professions, and schools should realize that and promote these types of jobs as well as they do the science/business/engineering type professions. Are people afraid to direct high school students that are obviously not a good fit for a 4-year university type setting towards these respectable, well paying, jobs simply because someone might be offended?

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

UND is more expensive than the college you're currently attending? They have a pretty highly regarded aviation program up there.

Flying is REALLY expensive no matter where you go. Even more so with the equipment you're using. Want to know how UND affords those new Cesnna's with all glass cockpits, CRJ simulator, and a 360 degree tower simulator? Lab fees from those of us who used them.

[UNH GH]

Re: Ginding away- stop putting sand in my oil... Part 4

I wouldn't do a university flight school at this point. Too much money and not enough return on hours, experience, etc.

I'm looking into a flight academy for a few reasons. The industry is changing, and soon. Minimum hours will be going up thanks to the government. Jobs are going to be opening up in the next 18-24 months. Getting in quickly through a flight academy has a TON of value.

...the problem is it's super expensive and I can't get me a cosigner.

[Twitch Boy]

Re: Ginding away- stop putting sand in my oil... Part 4

Are people afraid to direct high school students that are obviously not a good fit for a 4-year university type setting towards these respectable, well paying, jobs simply because someone might be offended?

A little of that, a little of the parents being able to brag to Agnes and Walter at their weekly bridge tournament that their snowflake got into Harvard.

The world needs ditch diggers too. Problem is, we've convinced the world that they don't want to be one.

[RaceBoarder]

Re: Ginding away- stop putting sand in my oil... Part 4

From my own situation, I can definitely say that the constant judgement of my current position in life gets old and can take a mental toll on someone... That has been the biggest obstacle I have faced since graduating in 2008... You simply can't help but question yourself when everyone is making degrading (although not always intentional) comments and criticism... There have been times where it's given me some pretty deep feelings of depression....

Recently I have turned a corner and been able to come up with a more positive outlook on life, but it still is something that can bring you right back down despite your best efforts...

Example: I'm currently working at a Dick's Sporting Goods store as a Department Lead... I also ran the store's ski/snowboard service shop until the company discontinued those services... Snowboard sales have been my bread and butter since arriving in the store in Nov. 2009... Over Black Friday, I had a college age girl and her dad shopping for a snowboard for her... The girl was wearing an NMU hoodie... After finding out the girl was an NMU student, I struck up a conversation about Marquette and Northern as I explained the various snowboard equipment... The whole time the dad had a "What the hell is this kid doing here?" kind of attitude after telling them that I was a 2008 grad... From his attitude, I wouldn't be surprised if he told his daughter "That is what happens to you if you don't get straight-A's." and tried to scare her into success...

I've had a couple of run in's like that over my time in retail... Each time I want to just pull the people aside and thoroughly explain to them that I'm not here by choice, I am here by necessity... I don't exactly get paid a "College Graduate" salary, but right now, it's the best I got... I can only imagine what their reactions would be if I told them that 3/4 of Minor League Baseball teams have gotten a resume from me in the past 2 years, yet I've only landed a small percentage of interviews and a lone job offer that was nowhere near being feasible financially or socially...

It all comes back to what Twitch's article talks about: PERCEPTIONS... Unfortunately, those of us who don't fit the mold can't quite earn the respect of the masses...

[The Rube]

Re: Ginding away- stop putting sand in my oil... Part 4

Perception is correct. My brother went to "Harvard Tech," the (unofficial) nickname for Hennepin Technical College (all you need is an ID to get in, and that's even not written in stone) to become a mechanic. In H.S., that's where the "dumb kids" went (according to stereotype).

He just bought a 5BR 4Bath house, with an attached 2 car garage, and detached 6 car garage (fully wired), on a few acres of land. I'd say he's doing well. Blue collar people can definitely make the money, depending on the field.

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Ginding away- stop putting sand in my oil... Part 4

I'm a smart guy. Honor Roll through High School, took Honor Level and AP courses. College has been amazingly rough.

Join the club.

AP classes were the dumbest thing I ever did in HS. I took AP classes starting my sophomore year in HS and had well over 50 credits going into my freshman year. Took me two years acclimate myself to college and pretty much all four to get my grades up to reasonable levels.

[Twitch Boy]

Re: Ginding away- stop putting sand in my oil... Part 4

From my own situation, I can definitely say that the constant judgement of my current position in life gets old and can take a mental toll on someone... That has been the biggest obstacle I have faced since graduating in 2008... You simply can't help but question yourself when everyone is making degrading (although not always intentional) comments and criticism... There have been times where it's given me some pretty deep feelings of depression....

Recently I have turned a corner and been able to come up with a more positive outlook on life, but it still is something that can bring you right back down despite your best efforts...

Example: I'm currently working at a Dick's Sporting Goods store as a Department Lead... I also ran the store's ski/snowboard service shop until the company discontinued those services... Snowboard sales have been my bread and butter since arriving in the store in Nov. 2009... Over Black Friday, I had a college age girl and her dad shopping for a snowboard for her... The girl was wearing an NMU hoodie... After finding out the girl was an NMU student, I struck up a conversation about Marquette and Northern as I explained the various snowboard equipment... The whole time the dad had a "What the hell is this kid doing here?" kind of attitude after telling them that I was a 2008 grad... From his attitude, I wouldn't be surprised if he told his daughter "That is what happens to you if you don't get straight-A's." and tried to scare her into success...

I've had a couple of run in's like that over my time in retail... Each time I want to just pull the people aside and thoroughly explain to them that I'm not here by choice, I am here by necessity... I don't exactly get paid a "College Graduate" salary, but right now, it's the best I got... I can only imagine what their reactions would be if I told them that 3/4 of Minor League Baseball teams have gotten a resume from me in the past 2 years, yet I've only landed a small percentage of interviews and a lone job offer that was nowhere near being feasible financially or socially...

It all comes back to what Twitch's article talks about: PERCEPTIONS... Unfortunately, those of us who don't fit the mold can't quite earn the respect of the masses...

I wonder what the depression rate is in those under 30 right now. This generation needs someone to stop all the vitriol and talk them down from the ledge before someone out there does something drastic.

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Ginding away- stop putting sand in my oil... Part 4

I wonder what the depression rate is in those under 30 right now. This generation needs someone to stop all the vitriol and talk them down from the ledge before someone out there does something drastic.

I'm doing just fine! Long way from the ledge for me. Did fine in college, graduated with honors, had a job lined up 1 year before graduation, been working for the same company since in a job in my major, and about a month from making Senior Engineer and getting about a 15% boost in salary. Life isn't that bad.

[johnnypohlfan]

Re: Ginding away- stop putting sand in my oil... Part 4

I'm doing just fine! Long way from the ledge for me. Did fine in college, graduated with honors, had a job lined up 1 year before graduation, been working for the same company since in a job in my major, and about a month from making Senior Engineer and getting about a 15% boost in salary. Life isn't that bad.

Congratulations...I guess? You do realize you're quite lucky, right?

I'm had pretty much the same experience since graduating in 2008 from college, but i'm not about to go around tooting my own horn. I have enough family and friends who graduated around the same time and have horse **** jobs, or no job.

Its rare that I agree with a Twitch Boy post, but he's right on this topic. But I'm sure everyone here is glad to hear you're doing so well.

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Ginding away- stop putting sand in my oil... Part 4

Congratulations...I guess? You do realize you're quite lucky, right?

I'm had pretty much the same experience since graduating in 2008 from college, but i'm not about to go around tooting my own horn. I have enough family and friends who graduated around the same time and have horse **** jobs, or no job.

Its rare that I agree with a Twitch Boy post, but he's right on this topic. But I'm sure everyone here is glad to hear you're doing so well.

It is absolutely not luck. I worked for what I have, I earned it. How many people that have no job or ****ty jobs slacked off to much in college? How many studied degrees that are essentially useless and had poor job prospects to begin with? How many made poor decisions like not pursuing an iternship for a summer to gain valuable experience? All I'm saying is, make the right decisions and do a little work, and it will work out. I'm guessing that the majority of people in a poor job situation can look back and point to things that they should have done differently/better, and they would be in a much better postion. Some people in that spot will learn from their mistakes and be better for it going forward, others will be blame other people and continue to be dumbasses.

[jen]

Re: Ginding away- stop putting sand in my oil... Part 4

people who think unemployment and lack of respect are problems specific to one generation grind my gears.

It is absolutely not luck. I worked for what I have, I earned it. How many people that have no job or ****ty jobs slacked off to much in college? How many studied degrees that are essentially useless and had poor job prospects to begin with? How many made poor decisions like not pursuing an iternship for a summer to gain valuable experience? All I'm saying is, make the right decisions and do a little work, and it will work out. I'm guessing that the majority of people in a poor job situation can look back and point to things that they should have done differently/better, and they would be in a much better postion. Some people in that spot will learn from their mistakes and be better for it going forward, others will be blame other people and continue to be dumbasses.

In a good economy, I would agree. In this economy - I don't find that to be the case. Plenty of hard workers, with years of valuable professional experience, that made all the "right" choices - still get laid off, through absolutely no fault of their own. This is happening to every generation - not just recent grads.

Being lucky doesn't mean you didn't also work hard - but what about the people who worked equally as hard, or even harder - and still don't have jobs?

[johnnypohlfan]

Re: Ginding away- stop putting sand in my oil... Part 4

In a good economy, I would agree. In this economy - I don't find that to be the case. Plenty of hard workers, with years of valuable professional experience, that made all the "right" choices - still get laid off, through absolutely no fault of their own. You ARE lucky.

This.

Thank you for putting it far more pointedly and politely than I likely would have. bb, you can't possibly be that ignorant of what's going on around you. This economy is for ****, and there are countless people out there who did everything right and have no job.

[jen]

Re: Ginding away- stop putting sand in my oil... Part 4

Thank you for putting it far more pointedly and politely than I likely would have. bb, you can't possibly be that ignorant of what's going on around you. This economy is for ****, and there are countless people out there who did everything right and have no job.

I also understand why bbdl posted in the first place - Twitch seemed to make a blanket statement that everyone under 30 is depressed, which, as bbdl said, isn't correct. My take on it was bbdl was saying it's not a generational problem - and I completely agree.

but then he lost me on the part where he said he wasn't lucky.