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  • Re: Nice Planet 2011

    Originally posted by bigblue_dl View Post
    He'll walk, like he should, guaranteed. They're just doing this to shut up all of the dumbasses that are protesting.
    I think that the protests against Zimmerman specifically are absurd. Protesting that idiotic, dangerous law, please, be my guest. But we don't have the facts. So to assume that Zimmerman is guilty is exactly as ignorant and moronic as to assume that he is not guilty.


    On another note, I'm curious as to what people think about the Ozzie Guillen bruhaha. For those who are unfamiliar, the gist is that the manager of the Miami Marlins baseball team, who has a history of putting his foot in his mouth, and whose English is fairly bad despite having lived here for something like 30 years and being a naturalized citizen, was quoted in a magazine (Time?) as saying that he loves and admires Fidel Castro. The team suspended him without pay for 5 games. He issued an apology to Cuban immigrants which I believe may actually have been sincere. (He is not Cuban himself, but Venezuelan, although a US citizen now)
    Last edited by duper; 04-11-2012, 11:13 PM.

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    • Re: Nice Planet 2011

      Originally posted by duper View Post
      I think that the protests against Zimmerman specifically are absurd. Protesting that idiotic, dangerous law, please, be my guest. But we don't have the facts. So to assume that Zimmerman is guilty is exactly as ignorant and moronic as to assume that he is not guilty.


      On another note, I'm curious as to what people think about the Ozzie Guillen bruhaha. For those who are unfamiliar, the gist is that the manager of the Miami Marlins baseball team, who has a history of putting his foot in his mouth, and whose English is fairly bad despite having lived here for something like 30 years and being a naturalized citizen, was quoted in a magazine (Time?) as saying that he loves and admires Fidel Castro. The team suspended him without pay for 5 games. He issued an apology to Cuban immigrants which I believe may actually have been sincere. (He is not Cuban himself, but Venezuelan, although a US citizen now)
      Barring some shocking piece of evidence we don't know about (security tape of the actual shooting that shows Zimmerman standing over the kid and blasting him) I'd put the chances of him walking at about 80% or better based on what we know now, plus the presumption of innocence.

      I have only recently outgrown my hatred of the White Sox. Anyone in Chicago who says "I like both the Cubs and the Sox" is either lying or has been to two games his entire life. I've been to Comisky about 4 times and on each occasion it wasn't my idea and somebody else paid. I'd guess I've been to Wrigley maybe 150 times, maybe more. All four years in high school I had a season long pass.

      Ozzie made his comments in Miami, where they're trying to sell tickets to Cubans among others. It's the 3rd rail. Even so, Castro is yesterday's news. We're all just waiting to print -30- at the end of his story. That doesn't make him not a savage Commie beast, it just means his biggest days are behind him. So I'd give Ozzie the benefit of the doubt on what he said. If he were manager of the Mariners hardly anyone would have noticed, let alone cared. The suspension is probably about right and he should easily move past this episode. I don't think he meant to imply solidarity with that thug. A little charm offensive here with the Cuban community wouldn't hurt.

      This is probably analogous to someone calling Hitler a genius. That's not an endorsement of Buchenwald, although some would react as if it were.
      Last edited by Old Pio; 04-12-2012, 01:30 AM.
      2011 Poser of the Year & Pulitzer Prize winning machine gunner.

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      • Re: Nice Planet 2011

        Originally posted by duper View Post
        I think that the protests against Zimmerman specifically are absurd. Protesting that idiotic, dangerous law, please, be my guest. But we don't have the facts. So to assume that Zimmerman is guilty is exactly as ignorant and moronic as to assume that he is not guilty.
        Except for the fact that the "idiotic and dangerous law" probably isn't going to matter either way...

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        • Re: Nice Planet 2011

          Originally posted by WeWantMore View Post
          Except for the fact that the "idiotic and dangerous law" probably isn't going to matter either way...
          Aren't we always allowed to defend ourselves? If, as Zimmerman says, the kid was knocking the snot out of him, wasn't he permitted to use lethal force to end the assault? I guess that's what the jury will decide.
          2011 Poser of the Year & Pulitzer Prize winning machine gunner.

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          • Originally posted by Old Pio View Post
            Aren't we always allowed to defend ourselves? If, as Zimmerman says, the kid was knocking the snot out of him, wasn't he permitted to use lethal force to end the assault? I guess that's what the jury will decide.
            Right. His lawyer could obviously choose to take a different path, but it seems to me it will be a more "traditional" self- defense argument, rather than anything to do with stand your ground.

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            • Re: Nice Planet 2011

              Originally posted by WeWantMore View Post
              Right. His lawyer could obviously choose to take a different path, but it seems to me it will be a more "traditional" self- defense argument, rather than anything to do with stand your ground.
              Again, assuming Zimmerman's telling the truth, it's not like he's required to wait 'til an assailant produces a weapon. And it's not automatically unreasonable for him to assume "this kid's gonna kill me," is it? It's not like teenagers don't use guns to kill (usually other teenagers) every single day in this country. If the defense can produce testimony from cops, EMT's or emergency room personnel that Zimmerman had lacerations or a broken nose or both, I think it's game over.
              Last edited by Old Pio; 04-12-2012, 09:52 AM.
              2011 Poser of the Year & Pulitzer Prize winning machine gunner.

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              • Re: Nice Planet 2011

                Now that George Zimmerman's been indicted and facing possible time in prison, perhaps "Rev." Jackson can find time in his busy schedule to return to his home in Chicago to express his "outrage" about this. Speeches, marches, TV appearances, Op-Eds would seem to be warranted here, and in countless other events. Except there's no money or prestige in noting the horrific toll of black on black crime. Apparantly nobody cares. Even so-called "civil rights leaders." As someone said recently: "It's Columbine in Chicago every day." And Jackson does nothing. Why? *


                http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,5958042.story

                *Obviously the same criticism applies to that other national race pimp, the one posing as a "news" source on a network that has lost its soul.
                Last edited by Old Pio; 04-12-2012, 09:57 AM.
                2011 Poser of the Year & Pulitzer Prize winning machine gunner.

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                • Re: Nice Planet 2011

                  Originally posted by Old Pio View Post
                  Aren't we always allowed to defend ourselves? If, as Zimmerman says, the kid was knocking the snot out of him, wasn't he permitted to use lethal force to end the assault? I guess that's what the jury will decide.
                  And this is exactly why I think he'll walk. Hell, if someone was on top of my smashing my head on the pavement and I had a gun in my pants, I'd shoot the bastard too.
                  Having a clear conscience just means you have a bad memory or you had a boring weekend.

                  RIP - Kirby

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                  • Re: Nice Planet 2011

                    Affidavit of probable cause (PDF warning, couple NSFW words)

                    tl;dr: Not much we haven't already heard. Looks like they're riding on Zimmerman exiting the truck and following after being instructed not to by the dispatcher, and the screaming on the 911 tape being Trayvon.
                    Last edited by Twitch Boy; 04-12-2012, 04:36 PM.
                    Michigan Tech Huskies Pep Band: There's No Use Trying To Talk. No Human Sound Can Stand Up To This. Loud Enough To Knock You Down.

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                    • Re: Nice Planet 2011

                      My point in the post last night was that if you think you know the facts of the case, you are hopelessly naive. You do not have the facts. Therefore, you can't know. It just isn't possible. Obviously, he is presumed innocent until proven guilty, but since we don't have more than a tiny portion of the evidence, it is pretty foolish to speculate. I will say that the outcome of the trial will spark idiotic outrage, which is a shame.

                      As far as the stand your ground law, that law is idiotic and dangerous. It is worthless in the case of self-defense, because someone who is truly defending himself against an unprovoked attack already has a valid legal defense. But regardless of the facts of the Martin/Zimmerman case, this law is idiotic and dangerous. A law that encourages people to stalk others who they believe might be criminals, which is to say a law that encourages vigilanteism, is irretrievably stupid.

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                      • Re: Nice Planet 2011

                        Originally posted by bigblue_dl View Post
                        And this is exactly why I think he'll walk. Hell, if someone was on top of my smashing my head on the pavement and I had a gun in my pants, I'd shoot the bastard too.
                        The reason that he will walk is that enough reasonable doubt will exist as to what exactly happened that lead to the shooting.

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                        • Re: Nice Planet 2011

                          Originally posted by Almington View Post
                          The reason that he will walk is that enough reasonable doubt will exist as to what exactly happened that lead to the shooting.
                          That's my thought unless the DA has more info they've not yet made public.

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                          • Re: Nice Planet 2011

                            Originally posted by Slap Shot View Post
                            That's my thought unless the DA has more info they've not yet made public.
                            And if the DA doesn't he/she should definitely know it, which means that they're doing this simply to appease the masses. If this is the case, its a horrible plan, IMO.
                            Having a clear conscience just means you have a bad memory or you had a boring weekend.

                            RIP - Kirby

                            Comment


                            • Re: Nice Planet 2011

                              Originally posted by duper View Post

                              As far as the stand your ground law, that law is idiotic and dangerous. It is worthless in the case of self-defense, because someone who is truly defending himself against an unprovoked attack already has a valid legal defense. But regardless of the facts of the Martin/Zimmerman case, this law is idiotic and dangerous. A law that encourages people to stalk others who they believe might be criminals, which is to say a law that encourages vigilanteism, is irretrievably stupid.
                              Does it though? I would imagine there would be loads of empirical evidence to back this up.

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                              • Re: Nice Planet 2011

                                Originally posted by bigblue_dl View Post
                                And if the DA doesn't he/she should definitely know it, which means that they're doing this simply to appease the masses. If this is the case, its a horrible plan, IMO.

                                While it is unfortunate that politics are involved, both Zimmerman and the Martin family deserve to have this adjudicated and settled in a court of law by a jury. Honestly, I expect a hung jury in the first trial and for Zimmerman to plea out to criminal stalking (or something similar), get time served and 5 years of probation and be prohibited from every serving in a neighborhood watch again.

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