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Too early for the PWR? Princeton and Brown say no!

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  • Re: Too early for the PWR? Princeton and Brown say no!

    Originally posted by Fighting Sioux 23 View Post
    Here's my take on the brackets...

    Bridgeport: (34)
    #1 Yale vs #16 RIT (AH Champ)
    #5 BC vs #12 Union

    Manchester: (34)
    #2 Denver vs #15 BU
    #8 UNH vs #9 Michigan

    Green Bay: (35)
    #4 Duluth vs #13 Notre Dame
    #7 Wisconsin vs #11 Western Michigan

    St. Louis: (33)
    #3 North Dakota vs #14 Dartmouth
    #6 RPI vs #10 Merrimack

    As far as bracket integrity, they are all fairly similar as far as difficulty. The only schools within driving distance (400mi) to St. Louis are Wisconsin and Notre Dame, and both will be within driving distance to Green Bay. In fact, only 6 schools will have to fly. Everyone in the Green Bay and Bridgeport Regionals will be able to bus. Michigan and Denver will have to fly regardless of where they are placed, and for nearly every school St. Louis is a flight, so this bracket is the best for travel.
    21 NCAA titles in the Manchester bracket
    DU HOCKEY 1958 1960 1961 1968 1969 2004 2005 2017 NCAA CHAMPIONS

    DU SKIING 1954 1955 1956 1957 1961 1962 1963 1964 1965 1966 1967 1969 1970 1971 2000 2001 2002 2005 2008 2009 2010 2014 2016 2018 NCAA CHAMPIONS

    DU LACROSSE 2015 NCAA CHAMPIONS

    MATT CARLE WINNER OF 2006 HOBEY BAKER AWARD


    Geoff Paukovich: That's why I came to Denver, to beat CC.

    Comment


    • Re: Too early for the PWR? Princeton and Brown say no!

      Originally posted by du78 View Post
      21 NCAA titles in the Manchester bracket
      and if you take out unh, its still 21!! is that magic????
      “Unless you’re Boston College, you don’t get here every year.”

      Pinhead Nation: "gone" but not forgotten

      Originally posted by shrader
      Admin, do you still hate BC? If not, will darin and MAV ever be freed? If you do still hate BC, why is SteveF allowed to post?
      Hockey East Champions: 1987, 1990, 1998, 1999, 2001, 2005, 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2012
      National Champions: 1949, 2001, 2008, 2010, 2012

      Comment


      • Re: Too early for the PWR? Princeton and Brown say no!

        Confused about something from the latest Bracketology...

        "We break ties in the PWR by looking at the individual comparisons among the tied teams"

        Yet, UND wins the individual comparison over Denver...but he ranked Denver ahead of UND in his ranking of the teams

        Comment


        • Re: Too early for the PWR? Princeton and Brown say no!

          Not only that, but when he places the #1 seeds by proximity, he puts #2 Denver in Green Bay when Denver is closer to St. Louis.

          Comment


          • Re: Too early for the PWR? Princeton and Brown say no!

            Originally posted by J.D. View Post
            Not only that, but when he places the #1 seeds by proximity, he puts #2 Denver in Green Bay when Denver is closer to St. Louis.
            Remember, a flight is a flight. For Denver it doesn't matter where they're going, they're flying.
            Having a clear conscience just means you have a bad memory or you had a boring weekend.

            RIP - Kirby

            Comment


            • Re: Too early for the PWR? Princeton and Brown say no!

              Originally posted by bigblue_dl View Post
              Remember, a flight is a flight. For Denver it doesn't matter where they're going, they're flying.
              Oh I understand that part of it, just didn't make sense in the context of his explanation.

              Comment


              • Re: Too early for the PWR? Princeton and Brown say no!

                People talk a lot about KRACH, so I thought I would post what I would have as my KRACH bracket, and we can discuss how it compares to the PWR brackets...

                Green Bay:
                #1 Duluth vs #16 AH Champ
                #6 Wisconsin vs #10 Notre Dame

                St. Louis:
                #2 North Dakota vs #15 Miami
                #7 Michigan vs #12 BU

                Bridgeport:
                #3 Yale vs #14 Western Michigan
                #5 Boston College vs #11 Union

                Manchester:
                #4 Denver vs #13 Merrimack
                #8 New Hampshire vs #9 RPI
                North Dakota
                National Champions: 1959, 1963, 1980, 1982, 1987, 1997, 2000, 2016

                Comment


                • Re: Too early for the PWR? Princeton and Brown say no!

                  Originally posted by J.D. View Post
                  Confused about something from the latest Bracketology...

                  "We break ties in the PWR by looking at the individual comparisons among the tied teams"

                  Yet, UND wins the individual comparison over Denver...but he ranked Denver ahead of UND in his ranking of the teams

                  i think it means you would use the 4 individual comparison criteria as potential tiebreakers 1-4. that said, since denver wins rpi - they win the tiebreaker with nodak. your point about st louis is a good one. i have no idea what they consider there... assuming the flight is a flight scenario, UMD is almost a lock to go GB.
                  “Unless you’re Boston College, you don’t get here every year.”

                  Pinhead Nation: "gone" but not forgotten

                  Originally posted by shrader
                  Admin, do you still hate BC? If not, will darin and MAV ever be freed? If you do still hate BC, why is SteveF allowed to post?
                  Hockey East Champions: 1987, 1990, 1998, 1999, 2001, 2005, 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2012
                  National Champions: 1949, 2001, 2008, 2010, 2012

                  Comment


                  • Re: Too early for the PWR? Princeton and Brown say no!

                    Only once have we had a situation where two teams tied and the team with the higher RPI lost the overall comparison with a team. In that situation North Dakota and New Hampshire tied for #7 overall, with NoDak winning the comparison but UNH having a higher RPI. The brackets that year were messed up because #4 overall Minnesota hosted a regional, the NCAA wanted Michigan in Grand Rapids and the committee had to avoid intra-conference pairings. NoDak played #12 BU, paired with #1 Boston College; UNH played #9 Harvard, paired with #3 Denver. So we never found out whether the committee uses RPI or comparison to break that tie.

                    If three or more teams are tied, RPI is the tiebreaker, not comparisons (we know that from the 2007 tournament). Tiebreakers with two teams has never been an issue, so we don't know how they'll be broken. I have always assumed that the phrase "We break ties in the PWR by looking at the individual comparisons among the tied teams" means they break the ties by who wins the comparison, but that is open for interpretation.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Too early for the PWR? Princeton and Brown say no!

                      does anyone use slack for pwr? just wondering why they cant figure out that ties in the pwr are broken by rpi.. they constantly have the wrong team on top in those situations.
                      “Unless you’re Boston College, you don’t get here every year.”

                      Pinhead Nation: "gone" but not forgotten

                      Originally posted by shrader
                      Admin, do you still hate BC? If not, will darin and MAV ever be freed? If you do still hate BC, why is SteveF allowed to post?
                      Hockey East Champions: 1987, 1990, 1998, 1999, 2001, 2005, 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2012
                      National Champions: 1949, 2001, 2008, 2010, 2012

                      Comment


                      • Re: Too early for the PWR? Princeton and Brown say no!

                        Originally posted by SteveF View Post
                        does anyone use slack for pwr? just wondering why they cant figure out that ties in the pwr are broken by rpi.. they constantly have the wrong team on top in those situations.
                        Yeah, I use the slack page. Again, we don't know that ties between two teams are broken by RPI. The phrase we have to work on is "We break ties in the PWR by looking at the individual comparisons among the tied teams" as meaning that when two teams are tied they break ties using the comparison. Only when three or more teams are tied do we know for certain that ties are broken by RPI. The NCAA has never verified the process and we won't know for sure until they need to break a tie between teams that would impact the seeding (as happened in 2007 with SLU, UMass and Maine).

                        As I always say in these threads, there is no "wrong" answer. We're all speculating.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Too early for the PWR? Princeton and Brown say no!

                          ok fair point.. my second gripe is their data was different from uscho (and they must have fixed it since) but when i pulled their data after saturday night.. they had this up until yesterday:

                          1 Yale**(ec) 32 0.5878
                          2 North*Dakota**(wc) 30 0.5767
                          3 Denver*U**(wc) 30 0.5787
                          4 Minn-Duluth**(wc) 29 0.5825
                          5 Boston*Coll**(he) 28 0.5766
                          6 RPI**(ec) 27 0.5557
                          7 Wisconsin**(wc) 25 0.5566
                          8 New*Hampshire*(he) 24 0.5559
                          9 Michigan**(cc) 24 0.5547
                          10 Merrimack**(he) 23 0.5478
                          11 Western*Mich**(cc) 22 0.5383
                          12 Notre Dame**(cc) 21 0.5491
                          13 Union**(ec) 21 0.5551
                          14 Dartmouth**(ec) 19 0.5393
                          15 Boston*Univ**(he) 18 0.5413
                          16 Princeton**(ec) 16 0.5356
                          “Unless you’re Boston College, you don’t get here every year.”

                          Pinhead Nation: "gone" but not forgotten

                          Originally posted by shrader
                          Admin, do you still hate BC? If not, will darin and MAV ever be freed? If you do still hate BC, why is SteveF allowed to post?
                          Hockey East Champions: 1987, 1990, 1998, 1999, 2001, 2005, 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2012
                          National Champions: 1949, 2001, 2008, 2010, 2012

                          Comment


                          • Re: Too early for the PWR? Princeton and Brown say no!

                            The Tech-UAA game will impact the standings only if Tech comes back to win outright.

                            If UAA wins or ties:

                            Code:
                            1	Yale (EC)	        30	0.5889
                            2	North Dakota (WC)	29	0.5759
                            3	Boston Coll (HE)        27      0.5753
                            4	Denver U (WC)	        26	0.5697
                            5	Minn-Duluth (WC)	26	0.5778
                            6	New Hampshire (HE)	25	0.5601
                            7	Union (EC)	        22	0.5572
                            8	Wisconsin (WC)	        22	0.5559
                            9	Michigan (CC)	        22	0.5509
                            10	RPI (EC) 	        21	0.5538
                            11	Western Mich (CC)	20	0.5361
                            12	Notre Dame (CC)	        19	0.5483
                            13	Merrimack (HE)	        19	0.5466
                            14	NE-Omaha (WC)	        17	0.5336
                            15	Boston Univ (HE)	16	0.5438
                            If Tech comes back

                            Code:
                            1	Yale (EC)	        29	0.5889
                            2	North Dakota (WC)	28	0.5759
                            3	Boston Coll (HE)	26	0.5751
                            4	Minn-Duluth (WC)	24	0.5778
                            5	Denver U (WC)	        24	0.5681
                            6	New Hampshire (HE)	24	0.5602
                            7	Michigan (CC)	        22	0.5513
                            8	Wisconsin (WC)	        21	0.5558
                            9	RPI (EC)	        20	0.5538
                            10	Notre Dame (CC)	        20	0.5487
                            11	Western Mich (CC)       19      0.5366
                            12	Union (EC)	        19	0.5568
                            13	Merrimack (HE)	        18	0.5466
                            14	NE-Omaha (WC)	        16	0.5339
                            15	Boston Univ (HE)	15	0.5439
                            I'm going with the interpretation of breaking ties between two teams by using the comparison winner. Three or more teams tie and we break the tie by RPI. That would place Denver as a #1 seed over Duluth in the first scenario.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Too early for the PWR? Princeton and Brown say no!

                              I'd put brackets this way if UAA hangs on to at least a draw...and break ties with RPI

                              Bridgeport:
                              #1 Yale vs #16 AH Champ
                              #7 Union vs #9 Michigan

                              Manchester:
                              #3 BC vs #14 UNO
                              #6 UNH vs #10 RPI

                              Green Bay:
                              #2 UND vs #15 BU
                              #8 Wisconsin vs #11 Western Michigan

                              St. Louis:
                              #4 UMD vs #13 Merrimack
                              #5 DU vs #12 Notre Dame
                              North Dakota
                              National Champions: 1959, 1963, 1980, 1982, 1987, 1997, 2000, 2016

                              Comment


                              • Re: Too early for the PWR? Princeton and Brown say no!

                                So lets assume Tech loses (because they always do):

                                Bridgeport
                                1. Yale (EC)
                                7. Union (EC)
                                9. Michigan (CC)
                                16. AH Champ (AH)

                                St. Louis
                                2. North Dakota (WC)
                                8. Wisconsin (WC)
                                11. Western Mich (CC)
                                15. Boston Univ (HE)

                                Manchester
                                3. Boston Coll (HE)
                                6. New Hampshire (HE)
                                10. RPI (EC)
                                14. NE-Omaha (WC)

                                Green Bay
                                4. Denver U (WC)
                                5. Minn-Duluth (WC)
                                12. Notre Dame (CC)
                                13. Merrimack (HE)

                                ----------------------------------------------
                                And if Tech wins (lol):

                                Bridgeport
                                1. Yale (EC)
                                8. Wisconsin (WC)
                                10. Notre Dame (CC)
                                16. AH Champ (AH)

                                St. Louis
                                2. North Dakota (WC)
                                7. Michigan (CC)
                                9. RPI (EC)
                                15. Boston Univ (HE)

                                Manchester
                                3. Boston Coll (HE)
                                6. New Hampshire (HE)
                                12. Union (EC)
                                14. NE-Omaha (WC)

                                Green Bay
                                4. Minn-Duluth (WC)
                                5. Denver U (WC)
                                11. Western Mich (CC)
                                13. Merrimack (HE)
                                Last edited by redwings8831; 02-05-2011, 12:10 AM.

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