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  • Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

    Originally posted by WCHFan View Post
    OS with Winny Brodt and Chris Peterson. I believe they do more for the girls as far as meeting with coaches and promoting Minnesota girls.
    There is no question Os promotes its selected players (no tryouts) and provides them opportunities to be seen. And in today's recruiting world, it appears that exposure is almost more important than hockey talent. For the selected girls, it is a great boost to their college hockey careers. If a player is not fortunate enough to be selected, she is at a disadvantage because she does not have the same opportunities to be seen. I think college coaches miss out on some very talented players in the State of Minnesota by limiting their recruiting to these 2 teams. I guess time will tell as to how well these players do at the D1 level.

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    • Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

      Originally posted by DedicatedFan View Post
      There is no question Os promotes its selected players (no tryouts) and provides them opportunities to be seen. And in today's recruiting world, it appears that exposure is almost more important than hockey talent. For the selected girls, it is a great boost to their college hockey careers. If a player is not fortunate enough to be selected, she is at a disadvantage because she does not have the same opportunities to be seen. I think college coaches miss out on some very talented players in the State of Minnesota by limiting their recruiting to these 2 teams. I guess time will tell as to how well these players do at the D1 level.


      It isn't only limited to these two teams. HS Elite league is also and excellent place to get noticed. Why can't Fhit, CADP/CODP?, Bugstad etc etc. do the same things?

      My point was this program does so much to actually contact coaches. If other programs listed earlier would make a effort to do so and maybe put together a team that travels East to lets say a NAHA without charging much for their time maybe no one would be left out. Look at the rosters and you'll see they try to include as many as possible and actually suggest girls already chosen to play D1 hockey not attend some games.

      I guarantee that if a player called and asked to be apart of either the Ice Cats or Whitecaps they would be given an opportunity to play. Let's remember that many chosen to play also attended the summer camps put on by OS which every girl can attend. Also there are many other AAA teams that could play at tournaments where D1 coaches attend. The HS Elite teams are tryout based... and Prospects are also open to everyone. They don't recuit players and sometimes they don't know of skilled players that don't attend their camps.

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      • Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

        Originally posted by WCHFan View Post
        It isn't only limited to these two teams. HS Elite league is also and excellent place to get noticed. Why can't Fhit, CADP/CODP?, Bugstad etc etc. do the same things?

        My point was this program does so much to actually contact coaches. If other programs listed earlier would make a effort to do so and maybe put together a team that travels East to lets say a NAHA without charging much for their time maybe no one would be left out. Look at the rosters and you'll see they try to include as many as possible and actually suggest girls already chosen to play D1 hockey not attend some games.

        I guarantee that if a player called and asked to be apart of either the Ice Cats or Whitecaps they would be given an opportunity to play. Let's remember that many chosen to play also attended the summer camps put on by OS which every girl can attend. Also there are many other AAA teams that could play at tournaments where D1 coaches attend. The HS Elite teams are tryout based... and Prospects are also open to everyone. They don't recuit players and sometimes they don't know of skilled players that don't attend their camps.
        First, I am not criticizing what Os is doing for their players as they are doing a very good job of promoting their players and giving them an opportunity to be seen by college coaches. My point was that it is geared toward a very few select players only.

        Second, I don't want to get into a big debate about this and have someone come back and call me a disgruntled parent because I am not. The following are simply my observations:.

        I have to call you out on your "guarantee" to have an opportunity to play for the Whitecaps simply by asking as I know of at least 2 girls who did ask to play last year and were not allowed to do so. I also know they can't take everyone -- that would defeat their purpose.

        As far as other AAA teams playing in tournaments where coaches are present -- this does happen, but it is very hard for a parent or two to put together a quality team by making phone calls and trying to get girls to commit, especially if they see that the grass is greener somewhere else.

        The HS Elite League is also a good program, but it comes with its limitations. Once an underclassman player is invited to play, she automatically gets a spot on a team the next year. If a player makes it to a certain phase of the national development tryouts (I can't remember the level), she also gets a spot on a team. Since the league only has 3 teams of HS girls, that leaves very few spots available for someone to be invited through the tryout process. This hurts the player who maybe develop a little later in her HS career or who doesn't know the ins and outs of recruiting as a younger player.

        My understanding of NAHA is that they only allow so many teams from MN to participate, and those spots are taken by the Whitecaps and the Ice Cats -- please correct me if I am wrong.

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        • Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

          I believe there is a 3rd team going to the NAHA labor day tournament this year

          Comment


          • Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

            Originally posted by DedicatedFan View Post
            First, I am not criticizing what Os is doing for their players as they are doing a very good job of promoting their players and giving them an opportunity to be seen by college coaches. My point was that it is geared toward a very few select players only.

            Second, I don't want to get into a big debate about this and have someone come back and call me a disgruntled parent because I am not. The following are simply my observations:.

            I have to call you out on your "guarantee" to have an opportunity to play for the Whitecaps simply by asking as I know of at least 2 girls who did ask to play last year and were not allowed to do so. I also know they can't take everyone -- that would defeat their purpose.

            As far as other AAA teams playing in tournaments where coaches are present -- this does happen, but it is very hard for a parent or two to put together a quality team by making phone calls and trying to get girls to commit, especially if they see that the grass is greener somewhere else.

            The HS Elite League is also a good program, but it comes with its limitations. Once an underclassman player is invited to play, she automatically gets a spot on a team the next year. If a player makes it to a certain phase of the national development tryouts (I can't remember the level), she also gets a spot on a team. Since the league only has 3 teams of HS girls, that leaves very few spots available for someone to be invited through the tryout process. This hurts the player who maybe develop a little later in her HS career or who doesn't know the ins and outs of recruiting as a younger player.

            My understanding of NAHA is that they only allow so many teams from MN to participate, and those spots are taken by the Whitecaps and the Ice Cats -- please correct me if I am wrong.
            I think you are right on in all of your points. As far as how people get automatic invites in the Elite League or are selected for a tryout it seems that the rules change too often to really know what they are. There are too many examples of changing the rules on the fly to benefit certain players but lets just say that its their program and they can and will do what they want. Remember that OS, like the others, is a for profit organization and like all good businesses it pays to cater to your clients. IMO OS has a disproportionate influence on many events. I don't think its good that ANY organization has unabated influence regardless of pureness of heart. IMO allowing other organizations to participate in such programs as the Elite League would be good for Minnesota girls hockey.
            Last edited by SlewFoot; 06-28-2011, 10:45 AM.

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            • Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

              Originally posted by SlewFoot View Post
              IMO OS has a disproportionate influence on many events. I don't think its good that ANY organization has unabated influence regardless of pureness of heart. IMO allowing other organizations to participate in such programs as the Elite League would be good for Minnesota girls hockey.
              Sounding more like part of the MI model of elitism.

              Comment


              • Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

                So sounds like some sour grapes? MN had a record number of recruits this year - 48 all time high - we are doing many things right! MN may have more options for girls than any state. We have 3500 or more HS girls playing. Each spring we have a huge funnel of girls who try out in a three phase process for the National Camp 8 sections of 40 girls in section, then 160 on 8 teams in festival to 54 at the final weekend for the age groups of U15, U16, U17 - pretty inclusive with lots of coaches and evaluators. From this the National Camp kids are picked - MN has the highest quota of any state. These tryouts are key to establish Elite League players and why wouldn't it?

                I think when you say OS you have to look at people. Winny Brodt formed OS after parting from CODP - she has the highest concentration of girls in the program and girls from MN and W. WI. She has expanded from summer hockey to AAA Leagues to Elite with Prospects. There is not a D1 girl or family in the current class she doesn't know or hasn't helped at some point. Winny is a tireless advocate of Hockey serving on the Herb Brooks Foundation and many other volunteer actions. OS is the cheapest top program and employees many college hockey players at the D1 and D3 level to work with younger girls - great role models!

                Other top programs are CODP, FHIT and Ron Potter and others train girls - the top girls are doing a little bit with multiple providers over the U12-U18 time frame.

                MN Whitecaps - Winny and other key female players formed the MN Whitecaps to play in the top Female League and has become a key place for Women to skate between Olympics. Two seasons later at the urging of some key hockey people formed the MN JR Whitecaps as a second elite team to the MN Icecats. The Teams have largely been hand picked by people who know hockey - but there are some top players who don't make or get on either Team. Kids who are good players, good students and good kids tend to end up on these Teams and get lots of looks from D1 programs. MN JR Whitecpas girls are in many different training programs not just OS - FHIT may have had the highest concentraction - though many are in FHIT and Prospects.

                The Elite League - was formed another year later and is in its third year - many people were involved for maybe the 8 Years of the Boys Elite League to get one for HS Girls - it involves about 60 girls mostly JR and SR. John Russo, Eric Johnson (Minnetonka HS Coach), Chris Peterson, Winny Brodt and other top women players formed the program (and have served as coaches - all coaches are female) got this going. As noted these players mostly come from Phase Tryouts for National Camp though there are some tryouts. There is also and Elite II League run by the MN Girls HS Coaches Assoc.
                Last edited by joehockey; 06-28-2011, 03:34 PM.

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                • Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

                  Originally posted by SlewFoot View Post
                  I think you are right on in all of your points. As far as how people get automatic invites in the Elite League or are selected for a tryout it seems that the rules change too often to really know what they are. There are too many examples of changing the rules on the fly to benefit certain players but lets just say that its their program and they can and will do what they want. Remember that OS, like the others, is a for profit organization and like all good businesses it pays to cater to your clients. IMO OS has a disproportionate influence on many events. I don't think its good that ANY organization has unabated influence regardless of pureness of heart. IMO allowing other organizations to participate in such programs as the Elite League would be good for Minnesota girls hockey.

                  I'm not calling anyone out or attacking. I think I'm just defending all Girl hockey programs and mentioning that I feel OS is one of the best for furthering Minnesota girls playing careers. I just saw you forgot to mention OS out of all the summer programs you listed.

                  To respond to your post. I know of many girls the past few years who were added to the Icecats and Whitecaps as alternates and of course most summer programs are for profit. But as far as price OS is one of the least expensive. When traveling out to NAHA the cost was maybe $200 plus travel which to me is a great investment(Coaches don't require money but families have chipped in). As far as prospects again around $200 for I think 10 sessions being coached by D1 coaches again pretty low cost. They even have D1 and D3 college girls program for around $180. The summer program is under $560.00 Let's compare some of the other programs CADP(states non profit??) last I looked it was aproaching $1000. Fhit and Potter aproaches $1600-2000. All great programs and worth the money but I feel OS by far does more with promoting Minnesota girls and helping them move to the next level.

                  I'm sorry to say if a player can't participate with the Whitecaps, Icecats, Crush, and past teams like Walser, Northern Stars, Pink Panthers, Schwans etc which ALL had girls move on to D1 or D3 hockey or one of the HS Elite league's 3 teams maybe a player might not be ready for college hockey.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

                    Originally posted by WCHFan View Post
                    I'm not calling anyone out or attacking. I think I'm just defending all Girl hockey programs and mentioning that I feel OS is one of the best for furthering Minnesota girls playing careers. I just saw you forgot to mention OS out of all the summer programs you listed.

                    To respond to your post. I know of many girls the past few years who were added to the Icecats and Whitecaps as alternates and of course most summer programs are for profit. But as far as price OS is one of the least expensive. When traveling out to NAHA the cost was maybe $200 plus travel which to me is a great investment(Coaches don't require money but families have chipped in). As far as prospects again around $200 for I think 10 sessions being coached by D1 coaches again pretty low cost. They even have D1 and D3 college girls program for around $180. The summer program is under $560.00 Let's compare some of the other programs CADP(states non profit??) last I looked it was aproaching $1000. Fhit and Potter aproaches $1600-2000. All great programs and worth the money but I feel OS by far does more with promoting Minnesota girls and helping them move to the next level.

                    I'm sorry to say if a player can't participate with the Whitecaps, Icecats, Crush, and past teams like Walser, Northern Stars, Pink Panthers, Schwans etc which ALL had girls move on to D1 or D3 hockey or one of the HS Elite league's 3 teams maybe a player might not be ready for college hockey.
                    I agree that all of the girls programs have something to offer and OS is in the forefront of giving girls exposure opportunities. Each one offers something a little different but arguing that total cost makes a program cheaper is a little deceptive. For example, OS summer training is $560 for 16 hours of ice which costs about $35/hour. FHIT is about 120-150 hours ice time (about $13-$16/hour) plus 5-6 days a week of virtually unlimited dryland work for 8 months. Even at $2,000 for a girl that wants a lot of training I think FHIT is the better deal cost wise. Of course, not all girls want to work that much so maybe for them OS is the better deal. You have to do the math.

                    In regards to my other comments. I might question some of their decisions but I'm not attacking the integrity of the OS people but I just think that with anything too much power in too few hands is not good regardless of who is in power. In programs like the Elite League I think its important to have more rather than fewer voices heard.
                    Last edited by SlewFoot; 06-29-2011, 08:09 AM.

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                    • Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

                      Originally posted by SlewFoot View Post
                      I might question some of their decisions but I'm not attacking the integrity of the OS people but I just think that with anything too much power in too few hands is not good regardless of who is in power. In programs like the Elite League I think its important to have more rather than fewer voices heard.
                      It depends. You can have situations like our state government where the power is spread around plenty of people yet decisions aren't always made for the greater good either. Some organizations can run better with a more narrow focus, rather than trying to serve too many and serving them all poorly. There are hundreds and hundreds of girls playing youth hockey in the state, and a decision that benefits one may not be in the best interest of another. It is difficult for any program to be all things to all people. Luckily, here's another case where it is good that multiple options exist.
                      "... And lose, and start again at your beginnings
                      And never breathe a word about your loss;" -- Rudyard Kipling

                      Comment


                      • Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

                        Originally posted by SlewFoot View Post
                        I don't want to be picky but the July Scrimmagefest is July 14-17 and in addition to the teams listed above it includes a team called the High School All-Stars which is made up of 1/2 Icecats and 1/2 Jr. Whitecaps from last year's U19 teams (i.e. girls that will be freshman D1 players in 2011-12) .

                        HS AS = High School All-Stars
                        Any idea if this roster would include Miss Bona and Miss Lorence?
                        Minnesota Hockey

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                        • Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

                          Let me ask this question. Would there even be a HS Elite league if they weren't involved.

                          As far as the OS cost. You have to figure in the dryland training also which would bring the cost down more to the $16-$20 an hour. If you do a combined prospects with college coaches and the summer program it is reduced. In my opinion I would choose a program that includes Great instructors who actually promote along with a program that includes college coaches(prospects) and can still allow you to do other programs.

                          Fhit is a great program but I've seen many sessions of so called ice time where there is no instructors on the ice and maybe 2 or 3 players participating at a time. And if you do choose a program like Fhit at $2000. can you really do anything else. I couldn't. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

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                          • Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

                            Originally posted by brookyone View Post
                            Any idea if this roster would include Miss Bona and Miss Lorence?

                            I would think both should play along with Ramsey.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

                              Originally posted by WCHFan View Post
                              Let me ask this question. Would there even be a HS Elite league if they weren't involved.

                              As far as the OS cost. You have to figure in the dryland training also which would bring the cost down more to the $16-$20 an hour.
                              I don't know the answer to your question. Obviously OS led the charge in starting the Elite League but I don't know if anyone else would have done so had OS not got involved. It was structured to be like the boys side. I would think that someone would have eventually decided the girls needed something like the boys program. Regardless, OS deserves kudos for starting the program.

                              As far as cost, you will also notice that I left out the dryland training for FHIT too. Its hard to quantify 5-6 days a week of dryland for 8 months. I'm only guessing but I think it would bring the cost to about $6-$7 an hour if you assume a conservative 5 hours a week for 30 weeks. The program is structured for the self-motivated kid. The cost per hour depends on the girl and how much they use each program. Each kid is different. That's why I say you have to do the math.
                              Last edited by SlewFoot; 06-29-2011, 08:31 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

                                Originally posted by SlewFoot View Post
                                I don't know the answer to your question. Obviously OS led the charge in starting the Elite League but I don't know if anyone else would have done so had OS not got involved. It was structured to be like the boys side. I would think that someone would have eventually decided the girls needed something like the boys program. I don't know anything about the boys side but I would think that they have more people involved. Regardless, OS deserves kudos for starting the program.

                                As far as cost, you will also notice that I left out the dryland training for FHIT too. Its hard to quantify 5-6 days a week of dryland for 8 months. I'm only guessing but I think it would bring the cost to about $6-$7 an hour if you assume a conservative 5 hours a week for 30 weeks. The program is structured for the self-motivated kid. It depends on the girl and how much they use it. Each kid is different. That's why I say you have to do the math.

                                Thanks for the info. How many college coaches attend? How many D1 or D3 girls have they been directly credited for? I just don't hear many D1 girls saying I wouldn't have made it if it weren't for Fhit.

                                Winny Brodt with some to a major influence D1 players in the last 3-4 years?

                                YEAR NAME POS HIGH SCHOOL COLLEGE BIO LINK
                                2008 KACY AMBROZ F NEW PRAGUE UMD
                                2008 ERIN BABINEAU F ROSEVILLE BEMIDJI STATE
                                2008 BRITTANY CARLSON D CRETIN OHIO STATE
                                2008 JACLYN DAGGIT D PARK ST. CLOUD STATE
                                2008 SARAH ERICKSON F BEMIDJI MINNESOTA
                                2008 MELISSA FESTE F EDEN PRAIRIE OHIO STATE
                                2008 ANDREA GREEN F EDEN PRAIRIE BOSTON COLLEGE
                                2008 ALYSSA GROGAN G EAGAN MINNESOTA
                                2008 KELSEY KETCHER F EDEN PRAIRIE NORTH DAKOTA
                                2008 LIZ ORKE F WAYZATA 2008-09…..DNP 2009-2010
                                2008 KELLY SEELER D EDEN PRAIRIE MINNESOTA
                                2008 LAUREN SMITH F HOLY ANGELS MANKATO
                                2008 DANIELLE WELCH F HASTINGS BOSTON COLLEGE
                                2008 MARLEE WHEELHOUSE D CROOKSTON BEMIDJI STATE
                                2008 ABBY WILLIAMS F ALEXANDRIA BEMIDJI STATE
                                2009 JESSICA CHRISTOFFERSON F BEMIDJI MERCYHURST
                                2009 JESSICA HARREN F HILL MURRAY NORTH DAKOTA
                                2009 CASEY KNAJDEK F HILL MURRAY UCONN
                                2009 KELSEY ROMATOSKI D HOLY ANGELS HARVARD
                                2009 ERIKA WHEELHOUSE D CROOKSTON BEMIDJI STATE
                                2010 DANIELLE SCHOLZEN F BLAINE MANKATO
                                2010 AMANDA COLIN F BURNSVILLE QUINNIPIAC
                                2010 JOCIE SLATTERY F CENTENNIAL UCONN
                                2010 CORINNE BUIE F EDINA PROVIDENCE
                                2010 ELLIE GLEASON D EDINA DARTMOUTH
                                2010 CHRISTINA LACOMBE D EDEN PRAIRIE SYRACUSE
                                2010 DANA GALLOP F GRAND RAPIDS UMD
                                2010 MAGGIE PENDLETON F HILL MURRAY PROVIDENCE
                                2010 KALLIE BILLADEAU G HOPKINS SYRACUSE
                                2010 CARA JOHNSON F HOPKINS SYRACUSE
                                2010 MISSY MANKEY F HOPKINS RPI
                                2010 GINA McDONALD F IRONDALE HARVARD
                                2010 MICHELLE BONAPACE-POTVIN G ROCHESTER NORTH DAKOTA
                                2010 BETHANY BRAUSEN F ROSEVILLE MINNESOTA
                                2010 ALLIE DUELLMAN D ROSEVILLE BEMIDJI STATE
                                2010 MADDIE MARCOTTE D WHITE BEAR LAKE OHIO STATE
                                2010 DANI WILLIAMS D MN THOROUGHBREDS BEMIDJI STATE
                                2010 KARI LUNDBERG F MN THOROUGHBREDS MANKATO
                                2010 CORINNE HENNING F CULVER ACADEMY NORTHEASTERN
                                2010 KAYLA CAPISTRANT F ROSEVILLE ST. CLOUD STATE
                                2010 ASHLEY STENERSON F MOORHEAD MINNESOTA
                                2010 CHELSEA WITWICKE D ROSEVILLE NIAGARA
                                2010 ALEXIUS SCHUTT G MN THOROUGHBREDS SACRED HEART


                                Just saying.

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