Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

[brookyone]

Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

Good points. There are some that can be offensive and yet be excellent defenders. The first one to come to my mind is Milicia McMillen but I can name a lot more players (I won't) that are not good defensive players and have made their name offensively. I will be very interested in seeing how those players adjust to the next level.

For the record and from what I've seen while watching quite a few Minnesota players in the WCHA, there have been a few who were very offensively minded, and offensively skilled in high school at the D position that were able to immediately play that role fairly well at the college level, while performing quite well defensively as well. Not common by any means...but some I've seen are flat out, that talented. There's always a few "rookie" mistakes made...that's to be expected. The Gophers have one now that fits that description IMO. Another from outside Minnesota as well. I should add these players came to the college game with a fair amount of AAA experience too. That's significant. I expect others with that capability will follow. I don't know of any WCHA coach who doesn't actively look for defenders that can contribute to the offense in addition to being a solid defender. A pretty hot commodity.

[SlewFoot]

Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

For the record and from what I've seen while watching quite a few Minnesota players in the WCHA, there have been a few who were very offensively minded, and offensively skilled in high school at the D position that were able to immediately play that role fairly well at the college level, while performing quite well defensively as well. Not common by any means...but some I've seen are flat out, that talented. There's always a few "rookie" mistakes made...that's to be expected. The Gophers have one now that fits that description IMO. Another from outside Minnesota as well. I should add these players came to the college game with a fair amount of AAA experience too. That's significant. I expect others with that capability will follow. I don't know of any WCHA coach who doesn't actively look for defenders that can contribute to the offense in addition to being a solid defender. A pretty hot commodity.

Just maybe there are some women that are talented enough to take the offensive skills they developed in youth and HS and add some defensive skills in college to become a special player. I think it comes down to talent and coaching. Good coaching can get the best out of a talented player even if she might have some bad habits to change.

[brookyone]

Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

I think it comes down to talent and coaching.

Well...I can't think of a bunch of other factors that determine a players contributions to her team. 'Cept for teammates I guess.

Good coaching can get the best out of a talented player even if she might have some bad habits to change.

I think the guy over there in Madison is a pretty solid example of the kind of coach you're talking about...for one. I'd mention a couple Minnesota high school coaches that I think qualify, but then someone would probably publicly bad mouth those coaches for one personal reason or another so I won't go there. Players are going to make mistakes. Mistakes by D are usually more glaring. I think for a lot of players it's adjusting to the speed of the game at the D-I level...maybe more often than a need to overcome bad habits. Have to learn how to think, act and react faster and cut down / eliminate mistakes, which is also what good coaching teaches. I've seen a few players as seniors (in college) making the same mistakes they made as rookies...sometimes repeatedly. I would call those bad habits.

[WCHFan]

Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

In my opinion there are very few D who are were offensive in HS, AAA that could still bring it at the college level. Yes girls are lucky to be chosen by the gophers, Wisc or UMD with great offensive talent might have a better chance. But top D players say chosen by SCSU, ND etc. will struggle with getting points.

I see a tendency of those fortunate to be a part of the PP on teams will score points. I've seen many college games the last 2 years and rarley will you see a D go end to end full strength.

College hockey is at least twice as fast as any AAA, U19 elite team. Some might not agree and I was one of them because 3 years ago my daughters summer elite team played 2 college teams in tournaments and kept games close. But I learned to realize that it's not same as in season when college teams are lifting, conditioning, playing to gether every day. They increase there game many levels.

[ARM]

Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

I've seen many college games the last 2 years and rarley will you see a D go end to end full strength.

I'd say that is very true. Over the years, the Gophers have recruited quite a few D who had coast-to-coast capabilities while in HS, and most seldom even attempted to use those talents in college. My guess is that the problem for the college D is at the end of her offensivee foray, she is usually 200 feet from her own net. Given the caliber of offensive players most opponents possess, the odds on which red light will go on as a result of her rush are too close to 50/50. Megan Bozek is one of the few D at UM who has the skill and will to consistently carry the puck, get it deep, and avoid turnovers in the dangerous areas; she did so even as a rookie. It will be interesting to see how frequently Ramsey or McMillen lugs the puck in the years to come.

[frozenfeet]

Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

The reason certain players go end to end is because they can…plain and simple. They not only have the skill to do so they generally have the coaches’ blessing. They are not developing bad habits (the opposite)… just developing. High school coaches (most) are not stupid. If a player is carrying the puck and is consistently putting their team in jeopardy any good coach is going to make the correction…again simple. At the D1 level to even suggest that any one player is going to have that level of control is absurd…at least not in today’s game. However, they will have to be able to make quick decisions and at a minimum are going to have to get around at least one player on consistent bases. The more players (defenseman) can develop these skills in high school will only better prepare them for the competition they are going to experience. I doubt many players make it on to a D1 roster and stay there with out the ability to make adjustments and show the capacity to be coached. It doesn’t matter if you’re defensemen or forward hockey skills are hockey skill and the more you possess the more successful you have the potential to be.

[WCHFan]

Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

The reason certain players go end to end is because they can�plain and simple. They not only have the skill to do so they generally have the coaches� blessing. They are not developing bad habits (the opposite)� just developing. High school coaches (most) are not stupid. If a player is carrying the puck and is consistently putting their team in jeopardy any good coach is going to make the correction�again simple. At the D1 level to even suggest that any one player is going to have that level of control is absurd�at least not in today�s game. However, they will have to be able to make quick decisions and at a minimum are going to have to get around at least one player on consistent bases. The more players (defenseman) can develop these skills in high school will only better prepare them for the competition they are going to experience. I doubt many players make it on to a D1 roster and stay there with out the ability to make adjustments and show the capacity to be coached. It doesn�t matter if you�re defensemen or forward hockey skills are hockey skill and the more you possess the more successful you have the potential to be.

I'm not trying to fight you. I do disagree with most of what you say. In my opinion no matter what team you play for and even if you have your coaches blessing. I like the strong D player who will have pass before they skate end to end. When a D beats a player there will always be a player open and then make the pass. In college D are taught to win the puck and then make a pass ASAP then get open for a return pass if possible. When if a D tries to take it from end to end in college they most of the time will lose it and then create an odd man coming back which is costly.

What I'm trying do say in my posts is tell your young D to make everyone on her team better. Trust them even if they can't catch a pass at first (eventually they will) have a pass first mentality. Know what your going to do with the puck before you receive it. If possible think 2 steps ahead.

A D should NEVER have a 2 to 1 goals to assist ratio in my opinion and should be more like 1 to 2 ratio meaning 10 goals for every 20 assists. Of course there will always be times when a D might have closer totals. But if it's consistant 2 to 1 year after year maybe she should consider playing forward. This isn't the 90's

Let's be honest when it's 3,4-0 a D should never skate end to end. That D should be trying to help her goalie earn a shut out. I have no problem in a one or two goal game where a coach will say to his D take it up. I do have problem when a team is up by a large amount and a D is trying to get the hat trick or more goals.

[SlewFoot]

Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

I'm not trying to fight you. I do disagree with most of what you say. In my opinion no matter what team you play for and even if you have your coaches blessing. I like the strong D player who will have pass before they skate end to end. When a D beats a player there will always be a player open and then make the pass. In college D are taught to win the puck and then make a pass ASAP then get open for a return pass if possible. When if a D tries to take it from end to end in college they most of the time will lose it and then create an odd man coming back which is costly.

What I'm trying do say in my posts is tell your young D to make everyone on her team better. Trust them even if they can't catch a pass at first (eventually they will) have a pass first mentality. Know what your going to do with the puck before you receive it. If possible think 2 steps ahead.

A D should NEVER have a 2 to 1 goals to assist ratio in my opinion and should be more like 1 to 2 ratio meaning 10 goals for every 20 assists. Of course there will always be times when a D might have closer totals. But if it's consistant 2 to 1 year after year maybe she should consider playing forward. This isn't the 90's

Let's be honest when it's 3,4-0 a D should never skate end to end. That D should be trying to help her goalie earn a shut out. I have no problem in a one or two goal game where a coach will say to his D take it up. I do have problem when a team is up by a large amount and a D is trying to get the hat trick or more goals.

I agree with you except the part about the coach saying to the D "take it up". Maybe if the team is incredibly weak the HS coach might tell a D with offensive skills to take it up but on the stronger HS teams with good forwards I have never heard a coach say that. Generally what happens is that the D decides on her own to take it up. If she doesn't do it too often and is successful in making something happen the coach doesn't say anything. If she is doing it too much and is causing odd man rushes the other way a coach might tell her to stop it and pass more. Most of the times that I've seen D players go coast-to-coast, a coach is looking the other way rather than encouraging that style of play. IMO the problem with the coast-to-coast play is that even if it doesn't expose the goalie to odd man rushes I think it takes the rest of the team out of the game. Everybody starts playing selfishly and it is easier for an opponent to defend against a one dimensional team that doesn't move the puck.

[brookyone]

Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

Apologies for the brief interruption of the discussion, but:

Bemidji State
Alex Citrowske............F............Prior Lake................Prior Lake, MN
Rachel Kelly................F...........Rosemount........ ......Rosemount, MN

Clarkson University
Jeanna Boss..............G.........Roseville............. .....Roseville,MN

Dartmouth
Morgan Illikainen...D...........Grand Rapids HS....Grand Rapids, MN
Abbie Lund............F...........Blake School.........Eden Prairie, MN

Harvard
Tiana Press..............G........Benilde St. Margaret....Minnetonka, MN
Sami Reber...............F........Edina HS.....................Edina, MN
Hilary Crowe...........F........Blake School........Eden Prairie, MN

Maine
Brittney Huneke........D.........Hastings HS................Hastings, MN

Minnesota
Rachel Ramsey............F/D..........(Minnetonka).............Minnetonka, MN
Meghan Lorence...........F.............(USA/18's/Irondale)...Moundsview
Stephanie Anderson.......F.......(US U18/MN Thoroughbreds).....N. St Paul
Rachel Bona................F.......(US 18's/Coon Rapids).....Coon Rapids, MN
Shyler Sletta...............G......New Prague HS......Elko New Market, MN

Minnesota-Duluth
Emma Stauber.............D...........(PHM)............. ...Proctor/Hermantown
Paige Turner............G........MN Throughbreds.....Duluth, MN

Mercyhurst
Molly Byrne.................F..................(SSM).... .......Plymouth, MN

Niagara University
Delaney Middlebrook...D..............St. Paul United.......St.Paul, MN
Kalli Funk.............F.................Cretin Durham...........St. Paul, MN

Ohio State
Taylor Kuehl............F...........(USA 18's/Mound Westonka.....Mound, MN

Providence
Allison Micheletti........F.........(Rosemount)........... Rosemount, MN
Suzy Lundeen..........D........(Edina)................. ..Edina, MN

Quinnipac University
Morgan Fritz-Ward.........F...............(Lakeville South)..........Lakeville
Chelsea Laden..............Goalie........(Lakeville South)..........Lakeville

St. Cloud State
Audrey Hanmer............D...............(USA 18's/Forest lake)...Forest Lake
Abby Ness...................F..........(USA 18's/Roseau)...................Roseau
Julie Friend..................G................(Minneton ka)...........Minnetonka
Amanda Arbogast........F............(Eveleth/Gilbert)...............Virginia, MN

St.Lawrence
Margo Lund..............F............(Hill Murray)........White Bear Lake, MN

Syracuse University
Casey Hirsch...............F.................(Maple Grove)..............Maple Grove
Jordyn Burns...............D.................(Benilde)... .................Minnetonka
Allie LaCombe............F..................(Eden Prairie)............Eden Prairie, MN

UCONN
Emily Snodgrass........F...............(Eastview)....... ............Apple Valley, MN
Christie Brauer.........F...............(Edina)............ ...........Edina, MN
Caitlin Hewes.............D...............(Stillwater).... ...........Stillwater, MN

University of New Hampshire
Kayla Mork............F.................(Breck School)........Victoria, MN
Jesse Ryan..........F..........(Cloquet/Esko/Carlton)....Cloquet, MN


University of North Dakota
Shelby Amsley-Benzie..........G.............(Warroad)........... ....Warroad, MN
Layla Marvin......................F........(USA 18's/Warroad).......Warroad, MN
Leah Jensen.......F...............(E. Grand Foks HS).............E.Grand Forks

Vermont
Krystal Baumann........F..........(Farmington)............ ....Farmington, MN
Greer Vogl...............D...........(Edina)............ ...........Edina, MN
Megan Bergland......F...........(Faribault HS),......Faribault, MN

Wisconsin
Karley Sylvester........F........(USA 18's/Warroad)........Warroad, MN

I count 44 players out of Minny headed to division I programs. 44! I'm not 100% sure, but I'm thinking that has to be the largest number for any one class to date. Pretty outstanding I'd have to say! Not that the list is complete yet.

Let me know if there was a larger class any time previous.

[WCHFan]

Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

I agree with you except the part about the coach saying to the D "take it up". Maybe if the team is incredibly weak the HS coach might tell a D with offensive skills to take it up but on the stronger HS teams with good forwards I have never heard a coach say that. Generally what happens is that the D decides on her own to take it up. If she doesn't do it too often and is successful in making something happen the coach doesn't say anything. If she is doing it too much and is causing odd man rushes the other way a coach might tell her to stop it and pass more. Most of the times that I've seen D players go coast-to-coast, a coach is looking the other way rather than encouraging that style of play. IMO the problem with the coast-to-coast play is that even if it doesn't expose the goalie to odd man rushes I think it takes the rest of the team out of the game. Everybody starts playing selfishly and it is easier for an opponent to defend against a one dimensional team that doesn't move the puck.

AGREE!

I just know from dealings with past coaches that there are coaches especially a D where the dad is the coach. I coached my daughter for years and would never do this and ALWAYS team first. She didn't like it sometimes but she is playing D1 so it seemed to work out. Parents think that college coaches only see Offensive minded D. A college coach once told me they look more for the team player someone who see's the ice well and that most college teams will have that 1 or 2 offensive minded D and 4 or 5 defensive minded.

[joehockey]

Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

Looks like the break down of the 44 is a current history high - can't find but there is history somewhere back to 2006. OUt of the class of 44 from MN 16 or 36% are going to the WCHA and 28 out East 64% this is alomost exactly the same ratio of the Class of 2010 which had a big increase of players going East. This does point to more D1 Programs/Coaches actively recruiting MN players.

[D2D]

Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

Megan Bozek is one of the few D at UM who has the skill and will to consistently carry the puck, get it deep, and avoid turnovers in the dangerous areas; she did so even as a rookie.

As I was reading through the discussion I was also thinking of Megan Bozek, who is clearly an exception to the rule on the Gophers squad. But even with her I believe I noticed fewer rushes up ice in the second half of this past season as compared to the first half and when she was a freshman. Not sure why but her end-to-end rushes seemed to become less frequent as this past season progressed.

One thing in general that I think we can all agree on here. And that is as the quality of play increases, the harder it becomes and the more dangerous it becomes for a D to carry the puck all the way up ice. Starting at the youth levels (boys and girls) a very talented offensive D (as compared to his or her peers) has no problem skating and stickhandling past the players on the other team, and that player is often able to score off the rush. Thinking back to early high school girls hockey, we certainly saw that with the dominant players of the era, most notably Krissy Wendell. When she got a little room and a head of stream, the odds of her scoring were maybe something close to 50-50. Obviously that wouldn't be the case today, because the quality and depth has improved probably 10 fold from what it was in the early years. The other players are no longer semi-stationary cones like so many were back then. Take that same thought all the way to the highest levels of hockey today, the NHL and the mens Olympics. An end-to-end rush by a D that results in a goal is extremely rare these days. I'm old enough to remember Bobby Orr doing it back in the late 60's and early 70's, but against today's players and more developed defensive systems his heroics would simply not be possible today.

It will be interesting to see how frequently Ramsey or McMillen lugs the puck in the years to come.

My guess is not so much. Although both players are certainly capable of taking advantage of "time and space" that the other team gives them, I think their first instinct will be to look and pass up ice to an open forward. At that point neither will hesitate to immediately step up and get involved in the play. From what I've seen they are both very good decision makers, and I totally agree that it will be a lot of fun watching them develop and see how they adjust to the D1 level.

[Hux]

Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

As I was reading through the discussion I was also thinking of Megan Bozek, who is clearly an exception to the rule on the Gophers squad. But even with her I believe I noticed fewer rushes up ice in the second half of this past season as compared to the first half and when she was a freshman. Not sure why but her end-to-end rushes seemed to become less frequent as this past season progressed.

One thing in general that I think we can all agree on here. And that is as the quality of play increases, the harder it becomes and the more dangerous it becomes for a D to carry the puck all the way up ice. Starting at the youth levels (boys and girls) a very talented offensive D (as compared to his or her peers) has no problem skating and stickhandling past the players on the other team, and that player is often able to score off the rush. Thinking back to early high school girls hockey, we certainly saw that with the dominant players of the era, most notably Krissy Wendell. When she got a little room and a head of stream, the odds of her scoring were maybe something close to 50-50. Obviously that wouldn't be the case today, because the quality and depth has improved probably 10 fold from what it was in the early years. The other players are no longer semi-stationary cones like so many were back then. Take that same thought all the way to the highest levels of hockey today, the NHL and the mens Olympics. An end-to-end rush by a D that results in a goal is extremely rare these days. I'm old enough to remember Bobby Orr doing it back in the late 60's and early 70's, but against today's players and more developed defensive systems his heroics would simply not be possible today.



My guess is not so much. Although both players are certainly capable of taking advantage of "time and space" that the other team gives them, I think their first instinct will be to look and pass up ice to an open forward. At that point neither will hesitate to immediately step up and get involved in the play. From what I've seen they are both very good decision makers, and I totally agree that it will be a lot of fun watching them develop and see how they adjust to the D1 level.

In high school players go end to end because they can usually get away with it...whereas in D1 it depends on the circumstances presented. In the majority of instances the system in place is precidcated upon fast puck movement up the ice. Trying to lug it just messes up the system.

[WCHFan]

Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

As I was reading through the discussion I was also thinking of Megan Bozek, who is clearly an exception to the rule on the Gophers squad. But even with her I believe I noticed fewer rushes up ice in the second half of this past season as compared to the first half and when she was a freshman. Not sure why but her end-to-end rushes seemed to become less frequent as this past season progressed.

One thing in general that I think we can all agree on here. And that is as the quality of play increases, the harder it becomes and the more dangerous it becomes for a D to carry the puck all the way up ice. Starting at the youth levels (boys and girls) a very talented offensive D (as compared to his or her peers) has no problem skating and stickhandling past the players on the other team, and that player is often able to score off the rush. Thinking back to early high school girls hockey, we certainly saw that with the dominant players of the era, most notably Krissy Wendell. When she got a little room and a head of stream, the odds of her scoring were maybe something close to 50-50. Obviously that wouldn't be the case today, because the quality and depth has improved probably 10 fold from what it was in the early years. The other players are no longer semi-stationary cones like so many were back then. Take that same thought all the way to the highest levels of hockey today, the NHL and the mens Olympics. An end-to-end rush by a D that results in a goal is extremely rare these days. I'm old enough to remember Bobby Orr doing it back in the late 60's and early 70's, but against today's players and more developed defensive systems his heroics would simply not be possible today.



My guess is not so much. Although both players are certainly capable of taking advantage of "time and space" that the other team gives them, I think their first instinct will be to look and pass up ice to an open forward. At that point neither will hesitate to immediately step up and get involved in the play. From what I've seen they are both very good decision makers, and I totally agree that it will be a lot of fun watching them develop and see how they adjust to the D1 level.

Agree. Very well stated.

[brookyone]

Re: Minnesota Girls High School Hockey III

As I was reading through the discussion I was also thinking of Megan Bozek, who is clearly an exception to the rule on the Gophers squad. But even with her I believe I noticed fewer rushes up ice in the second half of this past season as compared to the first half and when she was a freshman. Not sure why but her end-to-end rushes seemed to become less frequent as this past season progressed.

You don't think Anne is in this same vein as well? I've always thought #22 picks her spots fairly well on those occasions she decides to go the length.