POTUS 45.45: The Wall or a Shut Down. Your Choice Pelosi!!!!!!

[5mn_Major]

Re: POTUS 45.45: The Wall or a Shut Down. Your Choice Pelosi!!!!!!

What I find so hypocritical, is that the Chinese can disappear 1, wait 2 (!) of their own, and whatever. But a foreign country arrests one of them, all hell breaks loose. It's bullsh*.

I understand where you're coming from. But the difference is that this is the treatment of foreign citizens. There's a lot of Americans in China and I figure we'd expect China to give them leeway if they in some way broke Chinese law and were to be severely punished. Its all about global precedence understandings.

Having said that, I have no idea the correctness of this particular extradition.

[Slap Shot]

Re: POTUS 45.45: The Wall or a Shut Down. Your Choice Pelosi!!!!!!

Brent remind me again why illegal immigration is such a hot button topic for you?:

Illegal immigrants are less likely to commit a crime than the average American and legal immigrants are even less likely. https://stevenrattner.com/interview/msn ... alsehoods/

There's more:

https://www.bushcenter.org/catalyst/...igh-costs.html
http://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu...states-economy
https://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/17/m...s-economy.html
https://www.theatlantic.com/business...-taxes/499604/
https://www.americanprogress.org/iss...rs-not-takers/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlo...=.d859c97cdb02
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/trave...der-180960357/
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mexican...-dea-decoys/2/
https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/s...ration-debate/
https://www.adl.org/resources/fact-s...nd-immigration

Including:

The National Academies found that first-generation immigrants (who were born outside of the United States) cost governments more money than the native-born population. The costs are largely taken on by state and local governments that educate the immigrants’ children.

But members of the second generation "are among the strongest economic and fiscal contributors in the U.S. population," the report said, with tax contributions greater than their parents and the native-born population.

The government runs on a deficit, so on average, taxpayers, including the native-born, benefit more than they pay in taxes. While members of the first, second, and third generations on average all cost more than they pay, we are all pushing a substantial amount of debt onto future generations — and immigrants and their descendants will also be "on the hook" for that debt.

Some costs won’t go away even if immigrants do. If all of the first-generation immigrants suddenly left the country, the government wouldn’t immediately have its expense burden reduced by $279 billion. Calculations in the study included defense costs and interest on the existing public debt, which would not go down without the 55.5 million immigrants. If those costs were excluded, the total fiscal burden for the first generation and dependents would go down to $43 billion, and the per capita burden would be more for the native-born population than for the first-generation immigrants.

The overall effect of immigration on economic growth was positive. Whatever costs immigrants might present now will be "paid back" by overall economic growth that will lead to more tax revenue on average for the government and less demand for need-based benefit programs. "The $279 billion calculation does not include any estimate of this effect and so is an upper bound on total fiscal impact," Donehower said.

The $279 billion impact stems from the combination of worst-case assumptions, he said. Under other assumptions, the fiscal burden was $43 billion.

The study also said the historical record suggests that the total net fiscal impact of immigrants across all levels of government has become more positive over time.

"The evidence does not suggest that current immigrant flows cost native-born taxpayers money over the long-run nor does it provide support for the notion that lowering immigration quotas or stepping up enforcement of existing immigration laws would generate savings to existing taxpayers," said a post on Econofact co-authored by Donehower and Francine Blau, an economics professor at Cornell University who chaired the panel that released the report.

The claim from the White House shows "a pretty misleading reading of the study," said Margaret Peters, an assistant professor of political science at the University of California-Los Angeles.

The facts are that 2nd, 3rd and 4th+ generation immigrants dwarf in numbers 1st gen thereby rendering the whining about "upfront" costs moot. We're long into a cycle of a very net positive return from immigration - not to mention the majority of myths about them are veritably false. Immigration is not a problem. It might not be perfect and it's not to say we can't make changes, but in essence and in total it's not a problem.

[Slap Shot]

Re: POTUS 45.45: The Wall or a Shut Down. Your Choice Pelosi!!!!!!

And:

https://www.adl.org/resources/fact-s...nd-immigration

It is true that there are more immigrants living in the U.S. than ever before. However, the percentage of immigrants in the overall population is not much different than many other times throughout our history. Today immigrants make up approximately13% of the total U.S. population. From 1900 to 1930, immigrants made up between 12% and 15% of the population, and similar spikes occurred in the 1850s and 1880s.

In 2014 there were approximately 11.3 million undocumented immigrants living and working in the U.S., which is actually a significant decrease from the 12.2 million undocumented immigrants in the U.S. in 2007. Today, in fact, the net migration from Mexico (the number of people entering the U.S. from Mexico minus the number of people leaving the U.S. to go to Mexico) is around zero. Undocumented immigrants make up about 3.5 percent of the nation’s total population.

Studies have consistently found that immigrants are less likely to be incarcerated than native-born Americans and that there was no correlation between crime rates and levels of immigration. Other studies have in fact found that crime rates are lowest in states with the highest immigration growth rates.

In fact, immigrants are twice as likely to start businesses as citizens born in the U.S., and companies owned by immigrants are more likely to hire employees than companies owned by native-born citizens. States with large numbers of immigrants report lower unemployment for everyone.

Immigrants collectively pay between $90 and $140 billion each year in taxes, and a recent study found that undocumented immigrants alone paid more than $11.8 billion in taxes in 2012. Everyone pays sales taxes on goods they purchase and property taxes on the homes they buy or rent, and more than half of all undocumented immigrant households file income tax returns using Individual Tax Identification Numbers.

With very few exceptions (such as access to medical care for victims of human trafficking), undocumented immigrants are not eligible for federal public benefits such as Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare and food stamps. In addition, most immigrants with lawful status are not entitled to these benefits until they have been in the country for five years or longer. This means that Social Security is often being deducted from immigrants’ paychecks but they cannot access those benefits.

Although people have claimed that undocumented immigrants have brought diseases to the U.S., including measles, hepatitis C, HIV, tuberculosis, and even ebola, the allegations are not supported by science or medicine. There is no evidence that immigrants have been the source of any modern outbreaks in the U.S. According to the World Health Organization, 113 countries, including many countries in Latin America, have higher vaccination rates for 1-year-olds than the U.S.

According to a 2015 report by the U.S Department of State, Bureau of Counterterrorism, “there are no known international terrorist organizations operating in Mexico, despite several erroneous reports to the contrary during 2014.” In fact, the vast majority of U.S. residents linked to terror since 2002 are U.S. citizens.

Although many people commonly think of undocumented immigrants as people who have snuck across the Mexican border, somewhere between one third and one half of undocumented immigrants in the U.S. have overstayed their visitor, student, or work visas. That means that they entered the U.S. with lawful documentation and only later became undocumented.

A wall or a fence along the entire border with Mexico would be impractical and very likely ineffective. The border between the U.S. and Mexico is almost 2,000 miles long. It spans difficult terrain, including deserts and mountains. Rivers flow along two thirds of the border. Much of the area is private property, which the government would have to buy from the owners to build a fence or wall, and many do not want to sell the land. The logistics alone make building a wall very difficult, if not impossible.

Finally:

https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/s...ration-debate/ (I didn't quote all)

Myth No. 1 — Illegal immigrants don’t pay taxes. They actually pay a variety of taxes. Because many undocumented workers hold jobs, a large number pay income, Social Security and Medicare taxes, as well as sales taxes when they purchase items in stores and property taxes when they rent or own homes. One study found that they pay $162 billion annually in federal, state and local taxes. Another project found that the average immigrant paid $1,800 more in taxes than government benefits received.

Myth No. 2 — The United States rarely deports illegal immigrants. In fact, the government deports 350,000 people annually. Since 1999, more than 2.2 million people have been deported from the United States, including visitors who overstayed their visas, lied on immigration forms, or committed serious crimes. State and federal officials regularly check the immigrant status of those who are arrested or serving time in prison.

Myth No. 6— Americans oppose allowing illegal immigrants to stay in the United States and become citizens. Polling data suggest there is public support for a “path to citizenship” for illegal immigrants currently in the country, subject to certain conditions. Results from a Pew Research Center survey show that 63% favor a “path to citizenship” if illegal immigrants pass a background check, pay fines and have a job.

[5mn_Major]

Re: POTUS 45.45: The Wall or a Shut Down. Your Choice Pelosi!!!!!!

SS is on fire.

[burd]

Re: POTUS 45.45: The Wall or a Shut Down. Your Choice Pelosi!!!!!!

And:

https://www.adl.org/resources/fact-s...nd-immigration

















Finally:

https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/s...ration-debate/ (I didn't quote all)

Thanks for the work, Slap.

[dxmnkd316]

Re: POTUS 45.45: The Wall or a Shut Down. Your Choice Pelosi!!!!!!

Wow

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Re: POTUS 45.45: The Wall or a Shut Down. Your Choice Pelosi!!!!!!

I often stated, “One way or the other, Mexico is going to pay for the Wall.” This has never changed. Our new deal with Mexico (and Canada), the USMCA, is so much better than the old, very costly & anti-USA NAFTA deal, that just by the money we save, MEXICO IS PAYING FOR THE WALL!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) December 13, 2018

[dxmnkd316]

Re: POTUS 45.45: The Wall or a Shut Down. Your Choice Pelosi!!!!!!

What a ****ing dip****

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.45: The Wall or a Shut Down. Your Choice Pelosi!!!!!!

I never directed Michael Cohen to break the law. He was a lawyer and he is supposed to know the law. It is called “advice of counsel,” and a lawyer has great liability if a mistake is made. That is why they get paid. Despite that many campaign finance lawyers have strongly......

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) December 13, 2018

....stated that I did nothing wrong with respect to campaign finance laws, if they even apply, because this was not campaign finance. Cohen was guilty on many charges unrelated to me, but he plead to two campaign charges which were not criminal and of which he probably was not...

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) December 13, 2018

....guilty even on a civil basis. Those charges were just agreed to by him in order to embarrass the president and get a much reduced prison sentence, which he did-including the fact that his family was temporarily let off the hook. As a lawyer, Michael has great liability to me!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) December 13, 2018

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.45: The Wall or a Shut Down. Your Choice Pelosi!!!!!!

Slap Shot: because it's against the law. I did notice you mentioned legal immigrants in there, which I have stated over and over, I'm perfectly okay with immigrants. As long as they are legal immigrants.

[burd]

Re: POTUS 45.45: The Wall or a Shut Down. Your Choice Pelosi!!!!!!

I often stated, “One way or the other, Mexico is going to pay for the Wall.” This has never changed. Our new deal with Mexico (and Canada), the USMCA, is so much better than the old, very costly & anti-USA NAFTA deal, that just by the money we save, MEXICO IS PAYING FOR THE WALL!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) December 13, 2018

Anyone who continues to support that imbecile should undergo a psych eval for competency. And the "for the good of the party" rationale does not fly. The Party has other options, many of whom would probably be more effective for the conservative cause.

[BassAle]

Slap Shot: because it's against the law. I did notice you mentioned legal immigrants in there, which I have stated over and over, I'm perfectly okay with immigrants. As long as they are legal immigrants.

Lots of things that are illegal are of no huge concern of mine.

That being said I’d like to see everyone documented and here properly, but the fact that our economy needs these 10,000,000 workers points to an immigration system that needs to be fixed, and that fix will probably also have to include some kind of process for converting those people to some kind of legal status.

[5mn_Major]

Re: POTUS 45.45: The Wall or a Shut Down. Your Choice Pelosi!!!!!!

Painter, just good to see him still active, says that the only way out left for Trump is a plea deal - which would take him out of office and the country could move on. Painter is awesome, entertaining and a little melodramatic.

[5mn_Major]

Re: POTUS 45.45: The Wall or a Shut Down. Your Choice Pelosi!!!!!!

What I find so hypocritical, is that the Chinese can disappear 1, wait 2 (!) of their own, and whatever. But a foreign country arrests one of them, all hell breaks loose. It's bullsh*.

Kim Jong Un’s friend becomes second Canadian detained by China amid Huawei uproar

https://www.foxnews.com/world/kim-jo...-huawei-uproar

[alfablue]

Re: POTUS 45.45: The Wall or a Shut Down. Your Choice Pelosi!!!!!!

Slap Shot: because it's against the law. I did notice you mentioned legal immigrants in there, which I have stated over and over, I'm perfectly okay with immigrants. As long as they are legal immigrants.

Do you worry equally for speeders? Since it's the same relative offence?

Bear in mind, baddies (like robbers and shooters) are speeders, too. So are drug runners. Does that mean we should have a major crack down on speeders to catch the baddies?

I'd bet a beer that you are just as unlawful as the illegal immigrants are- as I don't know anyone who does not speed once in a while.