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Thread: Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?

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    Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?

    I asked this question on "the other forum" and never received a response. Is anyone going to put together a PairWise ranking for DIII since the NCAA will be using it this year to select at-large teams?
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    Re: Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?

    Quote Originally Posted by spwood View Post
    I asked this question on "the other forum" and never received a response. Is anyone going to put together a PairWise ranking for DIII since the NCAA will be using it this year to select at-large teams?
    The big question about a PWR is what are the components to be used? For example, how is SOS to be measured? I doubt that the same factors will be used as in the DI PWR. If the factors are known, it is pretty easy for someone to do.
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    Re: Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?

    Quote Originally Posted by NUProf View Post
    The big question about a PWR is what are the components to be used? For example, how is SOS to be measured? I doubt that the same factors will be used as in the DI PWR. If the factors are known, it is pretty easy for someone to do.
    I hear you.

    But, if the D-1 PWR is employed, it'll shake-out almost identically to the Regional RPI. (And, nearly to the KRACH too, usually, which of course is a better metric than either of the former. )
    Last edited by Fishman'81; 12-05-2018 at 11:00 PM.

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    Re: Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?

    Quote Originally Posted by NUProf View Post
    The big question about a PWR is what are the components to be used? For example, how is SOS to be measured? I doubt that the same factors will be used as in the DI PWR. If the factors are known, it is pretty easy for someone to do.
    And if the NCAA doesn't disclose this, then there is no transparency, which is their stated purpose for changing to a Pairwise, right? I guess this was kind of my point in asking the question. I knew the components and weighting haven't been publicized yet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by spwood View Post
    And if the NCAA doesn't disclose this, then there is no transparency, which is their stated purpose for changing to a Pairwise, right? I guess this was kind of my point in asking the question. I knew the components and weighting haven't been publicized yet.
    The NCAA D1 side never publishes a PWR. The various web sites do. It so happens that the USCHO/CHN pwrs mirror the committee's charter.

    On the NC women's side, Grant (TonytheTiger) has the most accurate PWR.

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    Re: Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?

    USCHO will after an "x" number of games are played. Keep your eye out for it.
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    Re: Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?

    Quote Originally Posted by joecct View Post
    The NCAA D1 side never publishes a PWR. The various web sites do. It so happens that the USCHO/CHN pwrs mirror the committee's charter.

    On the NC women's side, Grant (TonytheTiger) has the most accurate PWR.
    The DI factors are known and disclosed for both genders. If we know the factors, anybody with a computer can figure it out. I would assume that the factors would be similar to what is published for the other DIII sports, but applied as a PWR instead of having the committee use the smoke filled room in its process. If that is the case, then the question becomes how will RNK work, since that is part of the DIII criteria.
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    Re: Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?

    Quote Originally Posted by NUProf View Post
    The DI factors are known and disclosed for both genders. If we know the factors, anybody with a computer can figure it out. I would assume that the factors would be similar to what is published for the other DIII sports, but applied as a PWR instead of having the committee use the smoke filled room in its process. If that is the case, then the question becomes how will RNK work, since that is part of the DIII criteria.
    The "RNK" farce should not in any way factor-in to a true PWR. Otherwise, why attempt making the process appear objective via yet another artificial process in the first place..? Do the powers that be consider the fans so clueless as to think that s*** will flush?

    My opinion -and I don't know what D-3 has planned- is that we'll see a transparent and easily verifiable PW this season, a la D-1. There would be no reason in the world to trot-out another BS smokescreen, when they already have a perfectly cynical and fungible one in place.
    Last edited by Fishman'81; 12-06-2018 at 10:54 PM.

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    Re: Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishman'81 View Post
    The "RNK" farce should not in any way factor-in to a true PWR. Otherwise, why attempt making the process appear objective via yet another artificial process in the first place..? Do the powers that be consider the fans so clueless as to think that s*** will flush?

    My opinion -and I don't know what D-3 has planned- is that we'll see a transparent and easily verifiable PW this season, a la D-1. There would be no reason in the world to trot-out another BS smokescreen, when they already have a perfectly cynical and fungible one in place.
    I don't know why people are throwing in RNK. I always thought it was going to be a straight up PWR just like D1. I believe your last paragraph is correct and the way it's going to be done.
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    Re: Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?

    Quote Originally Posted by Russell Jaslow View Post
    I don't know why people are throwing in RNK. I always thought it was going to be a straight up PWR just like D1. I believe your last paragraph is correct and the way it's going to be done.
    It's all explained in this NCAA memo which is found linked on the D-III men's hockey championships page at the NCAA: https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/cha...ot_Program.pdf

    As Russell noted, USCHO will have D-III men's and women's PWR based on the D-I algorithm very early in 2019.

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    Re: Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Trefzger View Post
    It's all explained in this NCAA memo which is found linked on the D-III men's hockey championships page at the NCAA: https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/cha...ot_Program.pdf

    As Russell noted, USCHO will have D-III men's and women's PWR based on the D-I algorithm very early in 2019.
    Here is the relevant quote from the memo which should give pause

    As you know, the PairWise system calculates rankings based on a comparison matrix that applies an equal weight to the selection criteria to compare each team to all other teams.
    What has not been made clear is what the selection criteria are. I support the change. My point is that the official selection criteria include RNK and there is not indication that this is not still the case. That is my only concern
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    Quote Originally Posted by NUProf View Post
    Here is the relevant quote from the memo which should give pause



    What has not been made clear is what the selection criteria are. I support the change. My point is that the official selection criteria include RNK and there is not indication that this is not still the case. That is my only concern
    If D1 is any guide
    RPI
    H2H
    COP

    RPI is the tiebreaker.

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    Re: Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?

    Quote Originally Posted by joecct View Post
    If D1 is any guide
    RPI
    H2H
    COP

    RPI is the tiebreaker.
    My point is that nobody has said that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NUProf View Post
    Here is the relevant quote from the memo which should give pause



    What has not been made clear is what the selection criteria are. I support the change. My point is that the official selection criteria include RNK and there is not indication that this is not still the case. That is my only concern
    You need to see appendix A. Thatís where they say the details are.

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    Re: Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?

    Quote Originally Posted by Russell Jaslow View Post
    You need to see appendix A. Thatís where they say the details are.
    In addition to appendix A, USCHO has confirmed that the formula will be identical to D-I.

    It's about time that the NCAA tournament field and pairings was not manipulated. Maybe the retirement of a prominent coach is part of that.

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    Re: Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Trefzger View Post
    In addition to appendix A, USCHO has confirmed that the formula will be identical to D-I.

    It's about time that the NCAA tournament field and pairings was not manipulated. Maybe the retirement of a prominent coach is part of that.
    Not sure about the last point, since said coach hasn't been on the committee lately, but the death of RNK does remove the smoky room effect and is a very important improvement.

    Teams can go into the league playoff season and know what they have to do to make thee NCAAs - win out, get to the finals to have a shot, or whatever. That is how it should be.
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    Re: Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?

    Quote Originally Posted by NUProf View Post
    Not sure about the last point, since said coach hasn't been on the committee lately, but the death of RNK does remove the smoky room effect and is a very important improvement.

    Teams can go into the league playoff season and know what they have to do to make thee NCAAs - win out, get to the finals to have a shot, or whatever. That is how it should be.
    I'm hopeful that this site will put-up a PW Predictor as they do for D-1. Then we all can easily run every possible scenario, before the fact.

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