0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

[rufus]

How do you count something that didn’t happen? People can believe whatever they want, but I think if guns were greatly reduced/banned average people would face significantly more crime.

You think a lot of stupid chit.

[burd]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

I think if guns were greatly reduced/banned average people would face significantly more crime.

Studies or statistics to support that belief?

[unofan]

How do you count something that didn’t happen? People can believe whatever they want, but I think if guns were greatly reduced/banned average people would face significantly more crime.

You can think that, and your opinion will continue to carry no weight because it's asinine.

[alfablue]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

How do you count something that didn’t happen? People can believe whatever they want, but I think if guns were greatly reduced/banned average people would face significantly more crime.

How do you honestly come to that conclusion?

Is that based in data from countries where guns are restricted in different levels? If not, then it's just a feeling that has no basis in reality. Just like you just said, people can believe whatever they want, and you believe over actually have data to support your "feeling".

Get some data, given the crime rates in the rest of the developed world, MY feeling says that your feeling is very wrong.

[BassAle]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Studies or statistics to support that belief?

his gut tells him more than studies or statistics ever could

[alfablue]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

How do you honestly come to that conclusion?

Is that based in data from countries where guns are restricted in different levels? If not, then it's just a feeling that has no basis in reality. Just like you just said, people can believe whatever they want, and you believe over actually have data to support your "feeling".

Get some data, given the crime rates in the rest of the developed world, MY feeling says that your feeling is very wrong.

As an easy, peasy, follow up, my feeling is backed up by data- https://aic.gov.au/publications/tandi/tandi359

Australia banned guns in 1996, and based on their crime rate reporting, it had no impact on the general trend of lower crime across the board. The only *possible* trace to the gun ban could have been a slight increase in armed robbery up to 1998, but that leveled off, and then declined for the last 20 years.

So there you go, real data to demonstrate that banning guns will not increase crime.

[Drew S.]

As an easy, peasy, follow up, my feeling is backed up by data- https://aic.gov.au/publications/tandi/tandi359

Australia banned guns in 1996, and based on their crime rate reporting, it had no impact on the general trend of lower crime across the board. The only *possible* trace to the gun ban could have been a slight increase in armed robbery up to 1998, but that leveled off, and then declined for the last 20 years.

So there you go, real data to demonstrate that banning guns will not increase crime.

Easy and relevant are two completely different things. Australia really is nothing like us except being in the developed world. They have less than 10% the population we do, the weather is much better, the economy is significantly better, and it is much more homogenous.

[alfablue]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Easy and relevant are two completely different things. Australia really is nothing like us except being in the developed world. They have less than 10% the population we do, the weather is much better, the economy is significantly better, and it is much more homogenous.

LOL, make all the excuses you want, but the data is still more relevant to your feeling.

I won't even bother to counter your silly reasons why they should be better.

[Drew S.]

LOL, make all the excuses you want, but the data is still more relevant to your feeling.

I won't even bother to counter your silly reasons why they should be better.

Fair enough. The truth is none of us know how a gun ban would turn out. I’m reasonable enough to admit as such unlike the vast majority on here.

[trixR4kids]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

How do you count something that didn’t happen? People can believe whatever they want, but I think if guns were greatly reduced/banned average people would face significantly more crime.

This has to be a parody account at this point.

[alfablue]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Fair enough. The truth is none of us know how a gun ban would turn out. I’m reasonable enough to admit as such unlike the vast majority on here.

Except that there is real data that shows that the crime rate will not rise. So there's REAL data that suggests that you are wrong.

If you are just guessing, yes, nobody would know how something turns out. When you have data, then you have a good idea how it would turn out.

[trixR4kids]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Except that there is real data that shows that the crime rate will not rise. So there's REAL data that suggests that you are wrong.

If you are just guessing, yes, nobody would know how something turns out. When you have data, then you have a good idea how it would turn out.

He knows the data and is just arguing in bad faith. None of the other developed countries have the gun homicide rate or number of mass shootings that we have here and at this point he might as well be arguing that climate change is fake news or that the CIA is developing a bomb that turns the frogs gay. There's no evidence that crime is significantly higher in those countries either (much less because people can't legally buy an AR-15). Also I'm sure he has a great grasp of how homogeneous Australia is.

[rufus]

Easy and relevant are two completely different things. Australia really is nothing like us except being in the developed world. They have less than 10% the population we do, the weather is much better, the economy is significantly better, and it is much more homogenous.

And founded as a colony of criminals and degenerates. And yet, they don't go around killing each other

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

And founded as a colony of criminals and degenerates. And yet, they don't go around killing each other

Still regarded as the Alabama of the Commonwealth, though.

[leswp1]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

The pervasiveness of the tobacco culture of the 60s and 70s is similar to that of guns today. The industry is fighting facts in a similar manner. The only difference is that there is a voting block that is looking to obstruct progress. Getting over the tobacco addiction took changes in places where it was used. Once indoor places said 'no thanks', society did as well. Hence retracting C&C, a major factor behind the gun culture, is a significant start.

The broader point is ending the tobacco and slavery addictions took massive changes. The same holds for the gun addiction. We can do it. But as with other societal calamities, limiting purchase of guns for a segment or adding a few more background checks will do nothing.

Maybe I am older than you but I can distinctly recall this being an issue in local elections at least. Tobacco was pervasive. It wasn't just the users and it was much more complex than people deciding not to let folks smoke inside. The industry had convinced the medical establishment that tobacco was OK. It was intertwined in culture and in the economics- tobacco tax, $$ in bars, in convenience stores, liquor stores.... There were a lot of people that argued if it was banned it would cause too much financial distress.

How do you count something that didn’t happen? People can believe whatever they want, but I think if guns were greatly reduced/banned average people would face significantly more crime.

This reminds me of dealing with my smoking patients/alcoholics who would tell me all day long that no matter how many objective things I showed them to prove to them their drug was harming them, they had a deep belief that their gut feeling had to be right. They wanted to believe what they knew to be true (even if it wasn't) because they had believed it for a long time.

Past feeling alarmist, look at it logically.

The stats of having guns increases risk. One could extrapolate from the facts- if we remove or decrease the exposure to the risk, the morbidity and mortality would decrease. I know they sell the goods about how bad and scary the world is but the stats for actual encounters with someone you need to defend yourself from are minuscule. Not only that, but people who attempt to use the gun in self defense statistically usually don't end up well. So the risk v benefit for protection is not statistically born out.

If you argue that the threat of a gun will stop people~ Consequence as a deterrent doesn't really work well. This is something they have done psych research on for yrs. Threatening people they will get the death penalty doesn't stop the person one bit. Telling people they could die if they drive drunk- nope. Telling people to not smoke or they will get medical issues- nope. 3 strikes and you go to jail- Nope. Telling people they might run into a homeowner with a gun- nope again. If they have decided to act then they will tell you all the reasons it isn't a threat to them because they are too smart, etc.

The vast majority of the country living in cities and towns have managed to live for centuries without packing a weapon in the civilized parts. (wild west doesn't count) The crime stats have shown decreased violent crime ~trending down for some time. At the same time people's perceptions are that the rate is increasing (hmmmm, I wonder why that is....)

I am curious if you think our country is so depraved that the only reason we aren't killing each other is because someone will shoot us if we try. Personally I don't believe that. The guns really haven't been shown to provide any benefit except giving people a false sense of security (in medicine- placebo affect). More guns has not been a good idea. The stats are worse.