POTUS 45.39: Dick Pictures for Everyone!!!!!!!

[5mn_Major]

Re: POTUS 45.39: Dick Pictures for Everyone!!!!!!!

I'd be all for solar and wind if you could:

a. guarantee the sun always shines, even at night (because the pre-mees in the neo-natal unit need electricity at night; see: base line loads)
b. guarantee the wind always blows
c. have far better energy storage tech*

*This one is will be the solution, and death of fossil fuels, when it happens. I'm guessing I'll see the leading edge of the wide-scale implementation before I start becoming "fossil fuel".

Don't get me wrong - I have no problem limiting the fallout from crappy coal as a band aid. But we must globally lead innovation here or lose out permanently and the point is whether we can up our usage. The answer is yes. Check some stats from windeurope.org on wind as a source:

The output of a wind turbine depends on the turbine's size and the wind's speed through the rotor. An average onshore wind turbine with a capacity of 2.5–3 MW can produce more than 6 million kWh in a year – enough to supply 1,500 average EU households with electricity. An average offshore wind turbine of 3.6 MW can power more than 3,312 average EU households. The European industry has a 40% share of all wind turbines sold globally.

Oh and the EU has much...much...less open, poorly utilized land than the US. After reading this...doesn't it sound like coal and oil have too much special interest influence?

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.39: Dick Pictures for Everyone!!!!!!!

I'm not. NG is a fossil fuel. After coal is eliminated folks will want that gone next. Why? "Less CO2" from NG is still CO2 emissions and there are forces demanding a carbon-free future.

People do not forget that NG is a fossil fuel. We know. What we do remember is coal is dirty as **** and NG is much preferred when making a choice.

[The Sicatoka]

Re: POTUS 45.39: Dick Pictures for Everyone!!!!!!!

If you have #3, you don't need #1 and #2.

Unfortunately, #3 is maddeningly elusive and may not arrive before petroleum runs out. If that happens, it's back to subsistence farming for nearly all of us....

No, you need something to charge the storage. Solar and wind become the "battery chargers" and the country runs on the storage tech.

But yes, #3 is maddeningly elusive. But I do believe it's closer than you think. Say 50 years out in mass scale.

[GrinCDXX]

Re: POTUS 45.39: Dick Pictures for Everyone!!!!!!!

Building a new NG plant is a half-decade evolution.
Retrofitting a coal plant to NG is about the same timeline.

And what folks forget is ... NG is still ... a fossil fuel. After coal is eliminated by those who want it gone, NG will be next for that same reason.

Do people favor it because it has "natural" in its name? In that case, NG is also gluten free!

No, it's favored over coal because it's cleaner, produces half as much CO2, and is cheaper.

[French Rage]

Re: POTUS 45.39: Dick Pictures for Everyone!!!!!!!

I'd be all for solar and wind if you could:

a. guarantee the sun always shines, even at night (because the pre-mees in the neo-natal unit need electricity at night; see: base line loads)
b. guarantee the wind always blows
c. have far better energy storage tech*

*This one is will be the solution, and death of fossil fuels, when it happens. I'm guessing I'll see the leading edge of the wide-scale implementation before I start becoming "fossil fuel".

You are correct with your sarcastic point about the sun not always shining and the wind not always blowing. However, because those sources do not at the moment 100% eliminate the needs for older fuels does not make them useless and does not make them an important part of the solution going forward. If they can help replace some of fossil fuels at various times of the day or year, then that is some pollution they help prevent. Because they don't do everything at the moment is not a reason to ignore them completely. Especially considering they will get better at what they do as time goes on, and storage will get better as time goes in, the sooner we get them integrated into the system, the more good we are doing ourselves.

[The Sicatoka]

Re: POTUS 45.39: Dick Pictures for Everyone!!!!!!!

Don't get me wrong - I have no problem limiting the fallout from crappy coal as a band aid. But we must globally lead innovation here or lose out permanently and the point is whether we can up our usage. The answer is yes. Check some stats from windeurope.org on wind as a source:

The output of a wind turbine depends on the turbine's size and the wind's speed through the rotor. An average onshore wind turbine with a capacity of 2.5–3 MW can produce more than 6 million kWh in a year – enough to supply 1,500 average EU households with electricity. An average offshore wind turbine of 3.6 MW can power more than 3,312 average EU households. The European industry has a 40% share of all wind turbines sold globally.

Oh and the EU has much...much...less open, poorly utilized land than the US. After reading this...doesn't it sound like coal and oil have too much special interest influence?

When I said a couple pages back I'm on the board of directors of an organization, did I mention it's in the electric power industry. Um, yeah, I'm up on the trends and tech ... and market forces and influences.

Did you know that when the wind blows and the sun shines right now in west Texas the ERCOT grid has electricity at negative prices? Let me translate that: When solar and wind are max those providers don't shut down (because they are subsidized and have to produce to get the subsidy). That creates a glut of supply and the price goes negative, yes, negative --> they pay you to take the electricity. Why don't they shut down the other plants at those times? It takes 24 hours to start-up/shut-down a coal plant. Those provide the baseline load support. It's a vicious game of opposing and clashing market forces.

Would I love to move to NG? Sure. But the ROI on that investment will not pay off if NG goes out of favor in 10 years.

If I could waive the magic wand it would be to create the energy storage tech we need. I wish Elon Musk had focused on that and not cars ...

[The Sicatoka]

Re: POTUS 45.39: Dick Pictures for Everyone!!!!!!!

You are correct with your sarcastic point about the sun not always shining and the wind not always blowing. However, because those sources do not at the moment 100% eliminate the needs for older fuels does not make them useless and does not make them an important part of the solution going forward. If they can help replace some of fossil fuels at various times of the day or year, then that is some pollution they help prevent. Because they don't do everything at the moment is not a reason to ignore them completely. Especially considering they will get better at what they do as time goes on, and storage will get better as time goes in, the sooner we get them integrated into the system, the more good we are doing ourselves.

I said they (solar, wind) are the future battery charges, didn't I?

[The Sicatoka]

Re: POTUS 45.39: Dick Pictures for Everyone!!!!!!!

You are correct with your sarcastic point about the sun not always shining and the wind not always blowing.

PS - That's not sarcastic; that's honest reality. Until we have storage to cover cloudy, calm days, we need baseline load providers.

[GrinCDXX]

Re: POTUS 45.39: Dick Pictures for Everyone!!!!!!!

I wish Elon Musk had focused on that and not cars ...

Musk and Tesla are probably advancing grid storage tech more than any other entity on the planet right now...

Hopefully at some point he can stop his descent into insanity.

[French Rage]

Re: POTUS 45.39: Dick Pictures for Everyone!!!!!!!

PS - That's not sarcastic; that's honest reality. Until we have storage to cover cloudy, calm days, we need baseline load providers.

Right, but phrasing it as "the sun does always shine" makes it sound like you're imparting some deep wisdom that people were not already aware of, and is often used as implying renewable sources are useless altogether. Maybe you don't actually mean it that way, but a LOT of people do use it in that sense. And they're missing that while we still need baseline sources in the meantime, cutting the amount of those sources is still a major step forward.

[The Sicatoka]

Re: POTUS 45.39: Dick Pictures for Everyone!!!!!!!

Did you know that when the wind blows and the sun shines right now in west Texas the ERCOT grid has electricity at negative prices?

Not in Texas?

MISO (Midwest): https://www.misoenergy.org/markets-a...time-displays/ <-- right now the map shows it's windy in Iowa

Out west? http://www.caiso.com/PriceMap/Pages/default.aspx

Mid-Atlantic: https://www.pjm.com/library/maps/lmp-map.aspx

[The Sicatoka]

Re: POTUS 45.39: Dick Pictures for Everyone!!!!!!!

Right, but phrasing it as "the sun does always shine" makes it sound like you're imparting some deep wisdom that people were not already aware of, and is often used as implying renewable sources are useless altogether. Maybe you don't actually mean it that way, but a LOT of people do use it in that sense. And they're missing that while we still need baseline sources in the meantime, cutting the amount of those sources is still a major step forward.

No, I'm implying that folks forget about this concept of "night" when it comes to solar.

[The Sicatoka]

Re: POTUS 45.39: Dick Pictures for Everyone!!!!!!!

Musk and Tesla are probably advancing grid storage tech more than any other entity on the planet right now...

Hopefully he can stop his descent into insanity at some point.

Undeniably. But still, I wish it was all storage no cars.

[GrinCDXX]

Re: POTUS 45.39: Dick Pictures for Everyone!!!!!!!

No, I'm implying that folks forget about this concept of "night" when it comes to solar.

But they don't really. For the most part, people discussing this issue are intelligent enough to understand the obvious without stating it explicitly every five minutes.

IT'S ABOUT WHO SHOWS UP.

[The Sicatoka]

Re: POTUS 45.39: Dick Pictures for Everyone!!!!!!!

But they don't really. For the most part, people discussing this issue are intelligent enough to understand the obvious, without stating it explicitly every five minutes.

IT'S ABOUT WHO SHOWS UP.

If find that most don't understand electricity. My baseline for deciding to converse or not is one question: "Where's electricity come from?" If the answer is "The outlet" ... I'm out.